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Why is priest blessing effectiveness written into the game code?

KioneKione Posts: 4Member
edited November 2014 in North of Thera
This is fundamentally a lore/RP question, but I sense the answer may involve combat balancing or other outside issues so I'm writing here.

 Lord Tecton posted in a previous question that the priest's blessings currently scale like this:

Characters with the Healing ability: 100%
Targossasians/Allies of Targossas: 66%
Everyone else: 0%

I've always thought that the Healing Skill involved directly manipulating the elements (along with the Spirit), and was consequently outside of the Bloodsworn Gods' domain. Because of this, the Church/Targossas imposed strict punishments for blessing Evil and Chaotic adventurers, as they might use their blessings in a way that threatens Creation. I feel that the significance of blessings and their distribution considerably weakens when blessings cannot affect individuals unallied with Targossas anyway.

Is there a specific reason for this? I'll probably ask around IG for an explanation, but if there's a straightforward answer why priest blessing effectiveness has been written into the game code, I would love to hear it.

Thanks!


P.S.
For balance reasons, I could see Priests gaining a larger benefit from blessings than other classes, something like:

Characters with the Healing Skill: 100%
Everyone else: 66%

That would keep the currently-established protection values the same as they are now, while also producing a real consequence if a priest blesses someone unallied with Targossas.

Best Answer

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Answers

  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,223Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Back in the day of massive defense stacking, I could kill DKs without sipping health. It was glorious.

    Arador
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAPosts: 1,203Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah, the fact that it is 0% for Cyrenian Pallies and 100% for Cyrenian priests is kind of lol.
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


    SiduriAmarillys
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,276Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I agree. Devo should be fully recalled from Cyrene instead of it being kept in the half-baked incarnation it is now. Unfortunately, the person blocking that decision is @Tecton.

    It's sort of led to this awkward our-hands-are-tied kind of thing among the people responsible for it. I think everyone would just be happier if Cyrenian devo got the axe and was replaced with something else cool like bardic styles or something.
    AmarillysNimAntidasAtalkez
  • HalosHalos San FranciscoPosts: 1,435Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Halos said:
    If anything, they could kick that down to 66% effectiveness for Cyrenian priests and I would be a-OK with it.
    lol relax @Cyrene

    I'm not sure if people are disagreeing with the fact I would be OK with weaker Cyrene priest blessings or what. I'm almost positive I'd be fine with this happening.

    AmarillysNimJeslynTibithaSilas
  • TryleTryle Posts: 8Member
    From my limited understanding, it seems like Cyrene attracts the touchy-feely, pacifist, Mother Teresa-ish priests, while Targossas attracts the righteous, crusading, Spanish Inquisition-ish priests. Both archetypes seem like legitimate lifestyles for a fantasy priest, but the (Bloodsworn) Gods in charge definitely lean towards crusading over other methods.

    Iono, if a Divine representing the whole "endless compassion" thing somehow worked his/her way into the story, maybe Cyrenian priests could get some credibility. If not, then they (Tecton and any other involved Divine) should probably just drop Cyrenian devotion entirely and make a new class that fills the "ultra supportive" archetype. Phaestus is pretty big there, so I don't know, maybe a "Soulsmith" - a class that heals with the same world-building forces that the Gods use?  
    TrillianaSiduri
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,879Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tryle said:
    Iono, if a Divine representing the whole "endless compassion" thing somehow worked his/her way into the story, maybe Cyrenian priests could get some credibility.
    That's how things were for most of the game (there were several different gods of "Good" with different philosophies and teachings, one of them was Tarah, goddess of compassion), and in the end it wasn't working out very well. Destroying Shallam and killing the old Good gods and replacing them with Targossas and the Bloodsworn was largely to escape from that (since it had far too much inertia to be overcome without something drastic).
    Halos
  • HalosHalos San FranciscoPosts: 1,435Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    If you are asking for some sort of events post where you can read the account of the Church's High Convocation Against Heresy or the Sacred Blood Ritual of Oathbinding performed by the Hierarchs of Celestia, then I think you will be disappointed.

    There is no IG event or canon explanation for how this came about, mechanically. 

    It was probably more like Team Good complaining to patrons saying  "we're tired of ppl blessing enemies its so unfun" and then Tecton/Clementius saying "ok, we'll fix it next classlead".

    Edit: Basically what Blujixapug wrote.

    TryleBlujixapug
  • AmarillysAmarillys Posts: 797Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Halos said:
    the Church's High Convocation Against Heresy or the Sacred Blood Ritual of Oathbinding performed by the Hierarchs of Celestia
    This would have been cool...




    HalosSiduri
  • DaslinDaslin The place with the oxygenPosts: 2,492Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I still remember when a Cyrenian priest gave me blessings after I went to Ashtan.
    ShirszaeTrilliana
  • NakariNakari Posts: 596Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    honestly, the current rp environment has pretty much decimated deviationist numbers in Cyrene, to the point where, if a ban is going to happen, it'll probably just be that way after it's de facto the case. There are only a few who I see around anymore, with generally at any given time there only being one or two about (for instance, of 29 people online right now, 1 is a devotionist)

    So yeah, that's just to say that I think things are moving in this direction already, though I do hope Cyrene gets something cool from it when (and I suspect it's a when, not if) the final ban comes down.

    Amarillys
  • VaehlVaehl Posts: 962Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    I don't understand why Cyrenian priests feel like they have to have 100% effective blessings -and- the ability to give them to others. Priest is a class that seems to be tied to the Bloodsworn and to upholding Good (abilities like hunt heresy, smite, purity, penitence from what I've seen). If you're playing a Cyrenian priest you are going against the grain by not actively being in the city that epitomizes these values and beliefs. Because of this you are going to have a tough time with certain mechanics working against you (blessings work for the priest already, anyways). But it's your decision to play your character there.

    I also think I'm missing something? Is the only reason you wish to deny priest from Cyrene simply because they can't give blessings to others? Why intentionally limit your choices? If you wish to roleplay a priest in Cyrene then go for it, there's no need to impose a rule against it. There are a couple difficulties but that is to be expected with your roleplay decision. If there are other reasons you wish to deny priest from Cyrene (especially as a Cyrenian) then I'd like to hear them.
    JeslynShirszaeEld
  • NakariNakari Posts: 596Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited November 2014
    I feel like there's an impetus to try and push Cyrene and Targossas a bit farther apart, and that's hard to do with Cyrene being another home for devotionists. This sort of thing ties the city together, though, by placing Cyrene more heavily in the 'Good' camp then it might otherwise have to be in, which can be a pain on both sides

    Which isn't to say that I'd like to cut off that rp choice, really, because I do find it interesting in theory. In it's current form, though, it mostly just feels like a product of historical ties rather then something actively promoting interesting international relations.

  • JeslynJeslyn United StatesPosts: 482Member @ - Epic Achaean
    edited November 2014
    To answer the first question, I have no problem not being able to give blessings to others (as far as spiritshield, endurance, and willpower). All of my devotional skills work just fine and they are what I use for others. I think that some Priests just don't like having their hands tied in that area and want to be able to make their own decisions. Which I respect, though I can see how it can be abused.

    As a second thought, I find it crazy that Cyrenian paladins are not able to be blessed by their devotionist partners. Especially ones that may or may not be a priest's bloodsworn. That would be the only thing I would change.

    As far as the second question, Targossas doesn't have a spectacular reputation in Cyrene and vice-versa. So anything that has to do with Targossas is looked down upon. I remember Jeslyn being a fresh out of Minia and already having four or five "concerned" citizens of Cyrene tell her that its the worst decision she'll ever make. However, Jeslyn is a polite "screw you" type of character, so she was able to shrug off most of the people and situate herself nicely. This happens to every new devotionist in Cyrene from what those same devotionists tell Jeslyn.

    Who knows what will happen. Perhaps relations between Cyrene and Targossas will get better, but I don't think that'll be the case. Or maybe devotionists will be banned. Though, even if that does happen, it would probably end up like the Forestal ordeal. Seeing as people already put a lot of work into their houses and class, that it would be a shame if they were kicked out suddenly.
    Amarillys
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAPosts: 1,203Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Ideally, this should work like:

    Targ/Allies: 100%
    Cyrenian/rogue devo users: 66%
    Unenemied non-devo users 33%
    Everyone else: 0%

    Because no, Cyrenian priest should not be getting more benefit than Targossian paladin from it. Similarly, a Cyrenian Paladin should not get the same level of blessing as a Tyrannus would, because lolno. 
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


    ShirszaeJovoloTharvisHalosAmarillys
  • EldEld Posts: 3,946Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aodfionn said:
    Ideally, this should work like:

    Targ/Allies: 100%
    Cyrenian/rogue devo users: 66%
    Unenemied non-devo users 33%
    Everyone else: 0%

    Because no, Cyrenian priest should not be getting more benefit than Targossian paladin from it. Similarly, a Cyrenian Paladin should not get the same level of blessing as a Tyrannus would, because lolno. 
    Those are sensible reasons for the 100%, 66%, and 0% categories, but why should non-Targossan, non-devo users get a benefit, enemied or not? Certainly wouldn't think you'd want to have it provide anything to at least Ashtani, Mhaldorian, or Hashani citizens, enemied or not.
  • AmarillysAmarillys Posts: 797Member @ - Epic Achaean
    edited November 2014
    A Cyrenian Priest should absolutely get more than a Targ Paladin. It's their bloody skill.



    JeslynShirszaeKuyVaehlJovoloTrillianaDraqoomKrypton
  • JeslynJeslyn United StatesPosts: 482Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Amarillys said:
    A Cyrenian Priest should absolutely get more than a Targ Priest. It's their bloody skill.
    I was not quite sure how it went from non-Targossians (or their allies) getting 0% benefit of Priest's blessing to Cyrenian priests getting 66% of the benefit of their own blessings. I didn't tri-trans my class skills for nothing! -.-
    AmarillysVaehl
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAPosts: 1,203Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Pretty sure Tecton noted that Cyrenian priests get 100%. Targossian paladins get 66%. Cyrenian paladins get 0%. 

    @Eld‌ the idea would be to let it be RP'd out by people rather than just doing it with code with zero explanation as to how we got this way from a Lore perspective. 

    It's an RP-required class, to some extent. The idea that Cyrenian priests who haven't done the Diaspora can get more benefit of Good-related magic than the ones who are actually in the Good faction is kind of dumb, imho, but it is what it is. Like I said elsewhere, we're trying to get things on the player-driven side of shit to make things a little bit more reasonable and in line with the existing canon/lore. 


    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


    Alston
  • AmarillysAmarillys Posts: 797Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Jhui said:
    Not sure why sitting at center crossing, mud sexing, writing poetry, or doing paperwork needs blessings anyway, but I'm sure this won't be the last time cyrenians debate something that's pointless 
    Only response possible for the complete jackassery present here... Shut up. Thanks ^_^



    TrillianaKei
  • JhuiJhui Posts: 1,955Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Was a joke, relax
    image
    Atalkez
  • SynestSynest Posts: 83Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Jhui said:
    Was a joke, relax
    Only if you come and give me a backrub! Have to do it dressed like a pedo-bear though or it doesn't count.
    JhuiTrilliana
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