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Fashioning, and the royal pain that it is.

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  • PatroklosPatroklos Member Posts: 213 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Kaie said:
    Jovolo said:
    So how exactly does Shaman have better hindering than Jester?
    @Jovolo man, if you'd simply utilize those eyes to read the post. I never said Shaman has "better" hindering. I said it's not exactly the same. The styles are apples and oranges. Each has their shortcomings, but if you're talking simply about just using hindering to fashion. then Shaman is where it's at because it won't consume balance to hinder via runes/totems. It's a pointless conversation anyways, fashioning is boring and time consuming for everyone.
    There's also the fact that if someone -really- wants to escape a Jester they can, the RNG on peels is absolutely horrible, even if you drop 10 of them which is blatantly obscene. Two classes can evade out of them with no penalty, one can raido out if there isn't a mono down, another two can pilgrimage out with no mono, flying out isn't hindered, nor is duanathar if you're outdoors. At that point all they have to do is run away and wait for the doll the unravel itself and they're usually happy to come at you again if you feel like expending the energy again.

    In all honesty Jester is almost a strictly support class with the current design, if I recall reportedly @Tecton‌ mentioned something about Jester getting an overhaul, but I could be wrong. Right now the current feeling on Jester is a lot of frustration, I only got my one slowlock move working because @Dartega‌ happened to point out a few things that actually showed the validity of it. As @Kaie mentioned, most of the people saying "Lol, Jester is easy, clearly you're a nub" aren't of the class and giving suggestions that still involve utilizing fashions in order to get ahead in fashioning, which derails from the original purpose of the thread.
    Bluef
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kaie said:
    @Jovolo man, if you'd simply utilize those eyes to read the post. I never said Shaman has "better" hindering. I said it's not exactly the same. The styles are apples and oranges. Each has their shortcomings, but if you're talking simply about just using hindering to fashion. then Shaman is where it's at because it won't consume balance to hinder via runes/totems. It's a pointless conversation anyways, fashioning is boring and time consuming for everyone.

    Achimrst said:
    Basically because we have totems which can transfix, paralyze and put you to sleep. Then we can immediately begin attacking with a doll to add a bind and slow you.

    Kaie said:
    It's not wrong really. It isn't the same type of hindering when you think about it.


    Bluef said:
    I play both classes and I don't see a lot of similarity between being able to hinder with curses every 1s, runes and totems amid fashioning and the kind of stuff that jesters use to hinder. I never said jesters couldn't hinder or that they had poor hindering, just that the playstyle is somewhat different as far as hindering goes. 
    Bluef said:
    Bombs can still be very useful if you know how to use them, but they do have some issues at present. Jesters definitely don't have the same kind of hindering that shamans do, but there are ways to address that. 

    Jovolo said:
    Jovolo said:
    So how exactly does Shaman have better hindering than Jester?
    @Kaie @Bluef @Achimrst

    It's already been stated. ^^^More than once. I never ever, ever, ever said it was better, just different.

    Achimrst
  • TalysinTalysin Member Posts: 575 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited September 2014
    @Patroklos, if you're serious about batting some strats around @Kaie and I may induct you into the secret society of Jestering.
    Bluef
  • PatroklosPatroklos Member Posts: 213 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sounds good, I'll try to harass one of you IG when I see you.

  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,358 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2014
    Dunno if its been mentioned here but if you have buckawn's and your opponent doesn't, juggling and throwing web bombs at the ground is infinitely faster then bind or hangedman, you can get in a couple extra fashions before they writhe. Combine that with bind to make them double writhe and its quite hilarious how you can get a full puppet with them getting in nearly 0 offense the whole fight. If they have buckawns, try to force them to remove it in blackout or something.

    Gem of Negation is also hysterical.

    Seftin has been doing some cool stuff with Bracers of Frost and puppetry, talk to him also.

    PraxidesBluef
  • SeftinSeftin Member Posts: 923 @ - Epic Achaean
    The only annoying thing that I've found about jester is the impracticability of using bombs when combined with selfishness and grip, as well as the somewhat annoyance of almost having to code a system for utilising bombs due to their random nature (setting up a counter for it etc to echo the timing left on a bomb and when to hand it off).
    I may, if I can be bothered to sort my system out and really put any thought into the class, come up with some ways to make things easier for myself, and make it open code for others.
    Sobriquet
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,358 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I actually found this to be a great help when I was Jester

    animated timers:
    http://forums.mudlet.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3257

  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Seftin said:
    The only annoying thing that I've found about jester is the impracticability of using bombs when combined with selfishness and grip, as well as the somewhat annoyance of almost having to code a system for utilising bombs due to their random nature (setting up a counter for it etc to echo the timing left on a bomb and when to hand it off).
    I may, if I can be bothered to sort my system out and really put any thought into the class, come up with some ways to make things easier for myself, and make it open code for others.
    I coded that entire thing in like 15-30 minutes.. on zmud not sure how much it's changed but was pretty easy back then.

  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,588 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jester was a fairly frustrating class to play but still pretty workable. There were some glaring flaws that were fixed since I left the class.
    - mickey now consumes herb balance (moss no longer triggers it)
    - imbibe only requires 1 fashions
    - fitness is no longer a defense
    - nifty juggle changes?
    - hocuspocus gives the caster a message (so glad they did this)

    I pretty much beat everyone I came up against before using my own bag of tricks. The new build has tons of potential if you ask me. 
    Examples:
    - My near-perfect 67-fashion slowlock now only takes 57 fashions and isn't messed up by fitness
    - Tarot aeon lock used to work ~40% of the time, when mickey -didn't- consume herb bal. I think at this point I could land it as often as I wanted.
    - hocuspocus was nearly unusable for affliction work before because it would affect the jester, so many possibilities now


    Bombs are tricky but eventually you use their uselessness to your advantage. Several strategies of mine involved just dropping them on the ground myself to ensure they wouldn't be given back. Timed concussions are lovely against momentum classes. Timed butterflies might be the funniest thing ever against people who think FLY beats jitb. Etc.
    Bombs are tough to manage and everyone has their methods, but that's not something that can be fixed in the design, more of a tribulation for every jester, which also lends a flavour to that particular jester's style.

    Random and unpredictable skills, yes, but also a lot of diversity and experimentation possible. That's why it's fun.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    Syri
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