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  • DupreDupre M.Member Posts: 288 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    IDEAs
    People want to use their homes to throw like 10+ people shindigs where you pretty much can guarantee someone will not be paying enough attention that a prism goes thru
    https://www.achaea.com/banner/caiges.jpg
    LennLaedha
  • LennLenn Member Posts: 539 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Player house security
    @Dupre My house is semi-public.

    Access to most rooms is on a white list that's fairly easy to join, and I don't care if someone brings buddies or prisms in.

    The main room is off limits only to enemies who have already come in and tried to attack or rob in the past. There are three people on this list so far.

    It's mostly the "other people won't want to come over if they get easily attacked here" that I don't like.

    Prism proof doesn't stop monk attacks, for instance, so it's still subpar security. If it did, I will grumble but add it, however it does not.
  • AralayaAralaya Member Posts: 1,224 @ - Epic Achaean
    IDEAs
    Dupre said:
    People want to use their homes to throw like 10+ people shindigs where you pretty much can guarantee someone will not be paying enough attention that a prism goes thru
    Then that’s on them. They let people in, those people were a security risk. Big deal.


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
  • CyrCyr Member Posts: 168 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    IDEAs
    Lenn said:
    @Dupre My house is semi-public.

    Access to most rooms is on a white list that's fairly easy to join, and I don't care if someone brings buddies or prisms in.

    The main room is off limits only to enemies who have already come in and tried to attack or rob in the past. There are three people on this list so far.

    It's mostly the "other people won't want to come over if they get easily attacked here" that I don't like.

    Prism proof doesn't stop monk attacks, for instance, so it's still subpar security. If it did, I will grumble but add it, however it does not.
    I'm not entirely without sympathy (and I might be one of the people on that list) but I can say that housing and in general safe rooms that there is no way to get at people in are bad design, having played other IRE's where that exists. I think there's some middle ground to be had, but there's a lot of people who want it to be completely safe in ways that aren't reasonable for a game that is in many ways built around conflict.  

    Dunn tells you, "I hate you."
    (Party): You say, "Bad plan coming right up."
    CaelanUtianima
  • LennLenn Member Posts: 539 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Player house security
    Even I've attacked and killed someone in their home using prism, so I can sympathize with not wanting perfect safety (their actions got Lenn killed, so it was aggressive self-defence).

    However, I've also been the target of a mark, and since I play on a phone a lot, I spent that time hiding on a ship (though when I was ready and able to fight back, I sat at New Thera and bothered random marks about it instead).

    I don't know what the compromise is, I just know I'd love to use my house to run events and parties but I don't feel like dealing with the stuff that invariably goes along with that.
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 1,870 @ - Epic Achaean
    IDEAs
    Austere said:
    Caelan said:
    This whole "I knew the risks, took them, and didn't like the results, so it should be regulated.." is among the stupidest attitudes I see lately.
    Remember when being afk was against the rules and people didn't bitch half as much about something that can literally be stopped with the purchase of two sigils and mild alertness? Pepperidge Farms remembers. 
    I guess that makes me Pepperidge Farms


    AustereOzmatiah
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 1,870 @ - Epic Achaean
    IDEAs
    Lenn said:
    Caelan said:
    This whole "I knew the risks, took them, and didn't like the results, so it should be regulated.." is among the stupidest attitudes I see lately.
    I barely use my house precisely because the risks aren't worth the minor roleplay fluff I spent thousands of credits to have, and therefore choose not to take them.

    Go ahead, try to rob my house. I'll even let you know when the sigils decay. You won't get anything.

    The risk has always been some lolpker coming in and attacking a guest without the slightest hint of roleplayed interaction, ruining whatever's going on and making people feel uncomfortable coming to my house again in the future.

    Fuck lolpkers and their entitled bullshit.

    There is an irony in your statement.  You feel entitled to safety and security and 'RP' (just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen) in a house but then say 'fuck lolpkers' for not adhering to what you feel entitled to. 

    I mean, just the point that you are complaining about house security while admitting you know/knew the risks when you purchased/continue to use your house (to the point you have stripped it of furnishings and things that can be stolen).  Nothing against you, I don't know you or remember you much, but you're clearly mad at people who enjoy a different aspect of the game than you.

  • LennLenn Member Posts: 539 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Player house security
    I'm clearly mad at people who decide to force their playstyle on others, namely me.

    So it's okay to complain about pacifist roleplayers pushing orgs out of conflict, but it's bad to complain about people pushing pacifist roleplayers into conflict? That's the view of an entitled PKer.
  • AralayaAralaya Member Posts: 1,224 @ - Epic Achaean
    IDEAs
    Lenn said:
    I'm clearly mad at people who decide to force their playstyle on others, namely me.

    So it's okay to complain about pacifist roleplayers pushing orgs out of conflict, but it's bad to complain about people pushing pacifist roleplayers into conflict? That's the view of an entitled PKer.
    afaik... no one has this view? No one is pushing people into conflict, just saying you have to accept it exists.


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
  • LennLenn Member Posts: 539 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Player house security
    Then explain why it has to exist in my house in particular?

    There are thousands of other rooms on this server that it can happen at instead.
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,312 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Recipe backend
    Afaik with forceboarding gone you can’t enter people’s ships, and there are some houses that are near impossible to get to, seems like a consistency issue IMO, but consistency hasn’t been a strong point at all for many years now so yeah.


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
  • AralayaAralaya Member Posts: 1,224 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2018
    IDEAs
    Lenn said:
    Then explain why it has to exist in my house in particular?

    There are thousands of other rooms on this server that it can happen at instead.
    Someone wanted to kill someone, and they just so happened to be in your house. Deal with it, it’s really not a big deal.


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
  • LennLenn Member Posts: 539 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Player house security
    It is a big deal if people don't want to go to my house because it's infinitely inferior to standing on a guard stack or going to a ship.

    It's hard to enjoy my house if I'm never there.
  • AralayaAralaya Member Posts: 1,224 @ - Epic Achaean
    IDEAs
    Then teach them how to avoid prism, or by no-prism upgrades.


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
    Utianima
  • RiellRiell Member Posts: 209 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited December 2018
    IDEAs
    Okay @Lenn. I’m gonna go ahead and call bullshit.

    I check deathsight history religiously. It’s the first thing I look at when I log in. I have NEVER seen you killed by another player. Ever.

    You can say the “lolpkers” are “forcing their play style on you” all you want, but at the end of the day, that’s not what’s happening. You’re not upset that people try to kill you. You’re upset that they COULD. Frankly, that’s idiotic.

    Achaea is not made of puppies and sunshine and rainbows. Period. It’s not. Even the majority of events spur conflict. It doesn’t sound like you’re mad at “lolpkers.” It sounds like you’re mad because you have this kinder that you’re in a glorified chat room and no one should be able to bother you.

    Guess what. In the real world, I could break into your house, punch you in the face, and escape without you ever even knowing who it was. Yea, it’d take some time, effort, and precautions, but so does completing a contract/bounty on someone who hides in their sub house IG.

    I honestly think you need to chill the hell out. The admins aren’t out to get you. Neither are the “lolpkers.” Frankly, the three people on your shit list probably aren’t that important, either.


    ETA: I have nothing against you.  I didn't even know you were a person until I read this thread.  However, I seriously have an issue with people being disrespectful of the admins when they literally bend over backwards to give us super awesome stuff.
    Utianima
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 1,870 @ - Epic Achaean
    IDEAs
    Tahquil said:
    I'd like to see the excess hunting gold from cap going into the dragon hoard lair thing... as per touted on release.
    Should be game wide and not just by dragons.  Level 12 newbie bumps against the cap? Split the capped gold generated into all the hoards.  Make hoards truly hoardish.

  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 1,731 @ - Epic Achaean
    If a level 12 newbie got the gold cap there should probably be an investigation into some bug abuse.

    Utianima
  • MathildaMathilda Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Player house security
    You build a house for you and your select friends to enjoy. The problem is that each additional person you bring into your house expands the opportunity fot break-ins; the best solution is to not invite your friends over (antiprism, aside from being costly, is also quite unreliable versus someone who really wants to break in).

    With all that said, any housing revamp will probably involve added flavour features (more things for ambiance and the like) rather than security issues. It is simply easier to cater to the combative side of the playerbase. My suggestion is to simply make city subdivisions a separate area from the city proper, to minimize the damage and hassle of break-ins.
     <3 
    Laedha
  • LennLenn Member Posts: 539 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Player house security
    @Riell I said last page my concern is people's actions affecting guests.

    Given my house is themed as an inn (despite called a cafe), the whole point is being a comfortable spot for guests to hang out.
  • TorinnTorinn Member Posts: 1,224 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2018
    IDEAs
    We all can't have everything our own time all the time.  Counts for you, counts for me, counts for everyone.  If a person of afraid of "could have" in a game, they gotta lighten up.
    Deucalion says, "Torinn is quite nice."
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,064 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Player house security
    Mathilda said:
    My suggestion is to simply make city subdivisions a separate area from the city proper, to minimize the damage and hassle of break-ins.
    Speaking as someone with an OOS plot, this is definitely not going to be helpful. I've actually seen much better security sitting in a no-prism room in a house in city subdivisions, than a no-prism room in my OOC plot. This has been the case during all the years I've had the plot, so Cyrene, to Eleusis, to Mhaldor, all during times I was either into PK, had friends who were, or absolutely didn't touch PK (Santar, Bonko, etc). The latter were just people (even beyond the named ones) who decided they get to do what they want, when they want, because they can and it's upsetting to some people.

    Now, I'm also of the opinion a house shouldn't be a saferoom. Actions have consequences and all of that. I've had break-ins that went much better than expected and turned out interesting (Hasar, Aepas, Aodfionn all come to mind), and some I cringed my face off at, or just plain died to. So in truth, I absolutely acknowledge there is some sort of issue here, but I don't think there's an easy quick-fix to it.

    Dunno what the right solution is here. 
               My wing tips waltz across naive
                     Wood floors they creak
                  Innocently down the stairs

                          Drag melody
    My percussive feet serve cobweb headaches as a
              Matching set of marching clocks
                The slumbering apparitions
              That they've come to wake up
    Lenn
  • AralayaAralaya Member Posts: 1,224 @ - Epic Achaean
    IDEAs
    Mathilda said:
    You build a house for you and your select friends to enjoy. The problem is that each additional person you bring into your house expands the opportunity fot break-ins; the best solution is to not invite your friends over (antiprism, aside from being costly, is also quite unreliable versus someone who really wants to break in).

    With all that said, any housing revamp will probably involve added flavour features (more things for ambiance and the like) rather than security issues. It is simply easier to cater to the combative side of the playerbase. My suggestion is to simply make city subdivisions a separate area from the city proper, to minimize the damage and hassle of break-ins.
    If you’ve got eye sigils at your doors, monoliths, and antiprism, the only way someone can get in is if they track to you or phase and follow you in, both of which are very easily preventable.


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
    Utianima
  • DupreDupre M.Member Posts: 288 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    IDEAs
    There are more ways than that

    Like mind command brazier or boosted rift or hell, even "open door"
    https://www.achaea.com/banner/caiges.jpg
  • AralayaAralaya Member Posts: 1,224 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2018
    IDEAs
    Dupre said:
    There are more ways than that

    Like mind command brazier or boosted rift or hell, even "open door"
    Boosted rift: only works on DW, so an issue a minority of the time.
    brazier: if you’re complaining about conflict, why have a brazier tattoo?
    open door, don’t be in your entrance room.

    Y’all have solutions and are just digging for ways to whine that the admin aren’t giving you 10000% security.

    Edit: Depthswalkers also have built in resist forced command, so if you’re that worried just use that.


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
    Caelan
  • DupreDupre M.Member Posts: 288 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    IDEAs
    There are more this was an invitation to do your research before making dumb flat out untrue blanket claims

    I don't care for houses nor do I even want them to be more secure

    But it is an obvious truth that for nominally a bit more gold, a ship is pretty much foolproof security from the get go while a home builder has to be cognizent of many things to even approach close to zero chance of break in
    https://www.achaea.com/banner/caiges.jpg
    LennLaedhaJaedra
  • AralayaAralaya Member Posts: 1,224 @ - Epic Achaean
    IDEAs
    Dupre said:
    There are more this was an invitation to do your research before making dumb flat out untrue blanket claims

    I don't care for houses nor do I even want them to be more secure

    But it is an obvious truth that for nominally a bit more gold, a ship is pretty much foolproof security from the get go while a home builder has to be cognizent of many things to even approach close to zero chance of break in
    Then get a ship, or accept that your house isn’t going to have perfect security.


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
    Caelan
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,312 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Recipe backend
    Aralaya said:
    Dupre said:
    There are more this was an invitation to do your research before making dumb flat out untrue blanket claims

    I don't care for houses nor do I even want them to be more secure

    But it is an obvious truth that for nominally a bit more gold, a ship is pretty much foolproof security from the get go while a home builder has to be cognizent of many things to even approach close to zero chance of break in
    Then get a ship, or accept that your house isn’t going to have perfect security.
    as far as I'm concerned it should just be baseline across the board: ships, houses etc should have the same access in security, less or more I don't care personally, but just make it consistent so that if you want a secure ship, there are secure houses, if they aren't secure, neither are houses. 


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
    LennLaedha
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,227 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2018
    IDEAs
    The problem sometimes is not even that the break-in is not preventable, but that some people have absolutely nothing better to do and will just keep at it no matter how many times you successfully move or prevent the prism or do whatever else, because they just get a kick from interrupting whatever you were doing even if it is just to annoy you. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    LennLaedhaSiduri
  • LennLenn Member Posts: 539 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Player house security
    @Melodie I don't think the solution is to make housing insecure, as there are going to always be ways to log in without a chance of danger.

    Achaea can't afford there not to be, I think.

    A better solution might be some official means of dealing consequences such that the target can put it off but cannot hide from or refuse, like a "one year curse of death" or an "official duel which can be scheduled but not refused."

    In the same spirit how contracts only tick away outside safe areas.
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