Inquisition

Aerek

Kellonius said:

I don't recall, and don't care to check, but someone said something about not understanding what the limb breaking did for us with inquisition. I lol'd heartily.

That was me. 4 crippled limbs that are, without fail, cured by the time you get EQ back? At best, they Restore and throw themselves off EQ for 12 seconds, but I still can't think of a reliable way to abuse that as a Priest, and I fought as one for 5 years. Feel free to enlighten me.

Lyr

Yeah, I'm not sure 4 Lv1 breaks do anything useful for priest at all, given the immense EQ (and devotion) cost of inquisition.

Kellonius

Aerek said:

Kellonius said:

I don't recall, and don't care to check, but someone said something about not understanding what the limb breaking did for us with inquisition. I lol'd heartily.

That was me. 4 crippled limbs that are, without fail, cured by the time you get EQ back? At best, they Restore and throw themselves off EQ for 12 seconds, but I still can't think of a reliable way to abuse that as a Priest, and I fought as one for 5 years. Feel free to enlighten me.

You get 4 limb breaks on an opponent with inquisition and you know how much mana they have based off of that. Priests can diagnose with no balance cost, so you just count how much they apply a salve, diagnose, do some quick math in your head, and its obvious what your next step is.

Edit: There is also a few more techniques that you can use this with to keep your opponent down offensively, but I wont go into that here. I gave you a free one already.

Manix

I'm not sure if you knew Priests have contemplate @Kellonius, but it exists to do that a bit more efficiently than a guessworked inquisition heheh.

Darklyre

Aerek said:

Random thought: Instead of limb breaks, Inquisition could make you bleed a metric f- ton and make clotting cost more instead of Focus. Use the same 90/80/70/60% tiers that it currently uses to determine severity, but getting someone down to 70/60% should give them a choice: clot the massive bleeding and risk Absolve, or ignore it and risk getting bled/damaged out. Make torso damage factor in, so Priests can actually use that fantastic limb-break potential of theirs.

I rather like something along these lines. Have Inquisition increase the level of bleeding with each tier, but keep the penalty for focus (and perhaps add a penalty to clotting costs as well). This could give Priests an option to try for damage kills instead of "walk in and judge" or "sap sap sap Absolve."

Kellonius

Manix said:

I'm not sure if you knew Priests have contemplate @Kellonius, but it exists to do that a bit more efficiently than a guessworked inquisition heheh.

I just facepalmed irl. Its like a free contemplate, meaning.. I dont lose balance for checking their limbs. If only 3 get broken, there is no need to contemplate because I know my target has more than 60% mana. But I also know that they are suffering the effects of inquisition so I can continue. If 4 limbs get broken, I know that they are somewhere under the 60% threshold, so I only need a single sap to get them below 50%, 2 if they sip mana. There is no "guesswork" its just how it works.

Why would I used something that takes equilibrium and stop my offensive momentum when I can use something that keeps it going just as effectively?

Manix

How long does contemplate take and how long does inquisition take? The guesswork is in the inquisition itself - you're having to use up all of that eq time to check something that contemplate takes half the time to do and without knowing what their mana is even at, you may be risking an inquisition without even afflicting hellsight/3 broken limbs, for example. That's where the guesswork lies.

EDIT: Just so I'm not going blundering... Inquisition does take like a near five second eq, right? So I don't see how that's not losing balance to check for the amount of limbs that broke when you could have contemplated for a minimal eq loss or am I missing something here?

Kellonius

Manix said:

How long does contemplate take and how long does inquisition take? The guesswork is in the inquisition itself - you're having to use up all of that eq time to check something that contemplate takes half the time to do and without knowing what their mana is even at, you may be risking an inquisition without even afflicting hellsight, for example. That's where the guesswork lies.

EDIT: Just so I'm not going blundering... Inquisition does take like a near five second eq, right? So I don't see how that's not losing balance to check for the amount of limbs that broke when you could have contemplated for a minimal eq loss or am I missing something here?

I dont think its 5 seconds standard, no. But inquisition is an offensive attack and can be used fairly well in conjunction with other tactics in order to stop an opponent for a good amount of time as well as drain down his or her mana effectively. And yes, you are missing something. I'm not going to use inquisition as an opening attack. I'm going to use it when its viable to do so, during my set up when I can afford to lose eq to keep my offense going, while gaining a free check on mana levels.

Edit: if you cant figure it out now, I'm done trying to explain it. Spar me in game and log it, then try to figure it out.

Nellaundra

I bet if I sparred Kellonius, he'd just hold down the sap button.

Manix

Keeping your offence going by possibly afflicting hellsight and 4 mending level limbs that are cured by the time you regain equilibrium, and giving up an entire sip and moss balance in that time as opposed to contemplating and keeping up the offensive by staying on top of sip/moss bal? Inquisition doesn't drain any mana as far as I know, so I'm not sure why you're saying it helps stop an opponent as well as draining down their mana effectively - the issue here is that inquisition is far from a 'free check' on mana levels, and as I think has already been established in this thread, hellsight for 30 seconds is just something that isn't all that difficult to defend against versus a Priest. 

Also I am not really in a position to spar you right now... sorry, another time sure! perhaps you could spar someone else currently capable and see what they have to say about it?

Velyse

Manix said:

How long does contemplate take and how long does inquisition take? The guesswork is in the inquisition itself - you're having to use up all of that eq time to check something that contemplate takes half the time to do and without knowing what their mana is even at, you may be risking an inquisition without even afflicting hellsight/3 broken limbs, for example. That's where the guesswork lies.

EDIT: Just so I'm not going blundering... Inquisition does take like a near five second eq, right? So I don't see how that's not losing balance to check for the amount of limbs that broke when you could have contemplated for a minimal eq loss or am I missing something here?

_________________________________________________________________________

Edit: STUPID QUOTES. Rarg why must you torment me.

Inquisition takes 5 seconds, baseline. Contemplate takes a second, or less, baseline. I think he's saying that if you're inquisitioning anyway you can use it to roughly guess mana, but I can't imagine using inquisition unless you already know how much mana they have to begin with. 5 second EQ isn't something you can blindly throw around as a priest (part of why force is such a risk), especially when the return is something as mediocre as inquisition.

Vaehl

Now I wanna see priest + jester. Inquisition, jester starts shatter, hellsight, shatter hits/throw slike, priest jab vernalius/chasten, throw kalmia, throw gecko (all juggled). Couple spiritwrack afflictions and you get a nice pseudo manalock (focus = possible death) even though it's more of a focuslock. Not too viable but still a badass trick.

Can obviously switch jester with knight or serp or whatever. Especially viable with another priest. Switch throws with jab/chasten. Please speed up inquisition to make this possible.

Edit: thinking about it, it's be glorious with another priest. So stylish too.

Jarrod

Aerek said:

Kellonius said:

I don't recall, and don't care to check, but someone said something about not understanding what the limb breaking did for us with inquisition. I lol'd heartily.

That was me. 4 crippled limbs that are, without fail, cured by the time you get EQ back? At best, they Restore and throw themselves off EQ for 12 seconds, but I still can't think of a reliable way to abuse that as a Priest, and I fought as one for 5 years. Feel free to enlighten me.

You're in the wrong class thread, the real OP class threads are in other places.

Iocun

Now I wanna see priest + jester. Inquisition, jester starts shatter, hellsight, shatter hits/throw slike, priest jab vernalius/chasten, throw kalmia, throw gecko (all juggled). Couple spiritwrack afflictions and you get a nice pseudo manalock (focus = possible death) even though it's more of a focuslock. Not too viable but still a badass trick. Can obviously switch jester with knight or serp or whatever. Especially viable with another priest. Switch throws with jab/chasten. Please speed up inquisition to make this possible. Edit: thinking about it, it's be glorious with another priest. So stylish too.

Why all that work if you could just combine any two affliction classes, one of them with instant impatience (optimally bard or apostate), and truelock a single target much quicker? More secure, and needs no pre-sapping to get mana to inquisition levels.

Vaehl

Because you're using inquisition, and you're being focuslocked by a priest. The style points are so high.

Zeon

Priest 1v1 one is weak because they have one means of killing people. It means you only need to remember to protect yourself from one means of death. The problem isn't that sap+smite is bad, it isn't. The problem is it's predictable. Its linear-ness (is that a word?) isn't bad, having a lack of variety is.

This leaves priest with a lacking 1v1 (decent midtier, non-existent toptier), amazing group (with a primarily support role), and unbelievably good defense (with strong counters for both damage and afflictions).

Imo, that's a class in pretty good shape. I have no problem with a class having exceptionally good defense and lacking 1v1 firepower. If people wish to give priest more 1v1 potential, that's fine, but you'll need to give something up for it.

Lyr

When a lot of Ashtan is 'top tier', it becomes an issue. I'm not sure priest has unbelievably good defense 1v1, though. I might be doing something wrong, but I die pretty quickly to Sohl, Dodder, and such.

Zeon

Yeah a lot of the 'problems' I've read over the last few pages were just midtier fighters talking about things all midtier fighters of every class experience.

Zeon

Also it's hard to get a feeling for how good a class is at x until you've been a bunch of classes. Once you've class hopped enough you start to be able to compare classes a bit better.

Active defense, passive defense, prep time, and momentum needed to kill all vary with class/level/arties/player skill.

Lyr

That's true, I have only been a priest. The other side of that coin, though, is that people who played priest 4-5 years ago think that sap+absolve is viable, or that contemplate is still EQ-free, etc. And that hinders a lot of changes that have happened to the game.

Kellonius

Velyse said:

Manix said:

How long does contemplate take and how long does inquisition take? The guesswork is in the inquisition itself - you're having to use up all of that eq time to check something that contemplate takes half the time to do and without knowing what their mana is even at, you may be risking an inquisition without even afflicting hellsight/3 broken limbs, for example. That's where the guesswork lies.

EDIT: Just so I'm not going blundering... Inquisition does take like a near five second eq, right? So I don't see how that's not losing balance to check for the amount of limbs that broke when you could have contemplated for a minimal eq loss or am I missing something here?

_________________________________________________________________________

Edit: STUPID QUOTES. Rarg why must you torment me.

Inquisition takes 5 seconds, baseline. Contemplate takes a second, or less, baseline. I think he's saying that if you're inquisitioning anyway you can use it to roughly guess mana, but I can't imagine using inquisition unless you already know how much mana they have to begin with. 5 second EQ isn't something you can blindly throw around as a priest (part of why force is such a risk), especially when the return is something as mediocre as inquisition.

Well, someone gets it. I never ever said that I would use inquisition as a way to contemplate. I said it was like a free contemplate because its all dependent on the mana level of the other person. And yes, since you're going to use it anyway, its a nice little added bonus, if you're smart enough to catch onto things like that. 

Iocun

Lyr said:

That's true, I have only been a priest. The other side of that coin, though, is that people who played priest 4-5 years ago think that sap+absolve is viable, or that contemplate is still EQ-free, etc. And that hinders a lot of changes that have happened to the game.

Only someone who's a member of a class that can shield while prone and with broken arms, give an affliction that prevents rezzing, and unstoppably summon any other player from anywhere, would say such a thing.

Niks

You can't shield while prone with broken arms.

Iocun

Niks said:

You can't shield while prone with broken arms.

At least all the other things I mentioned are still in place.

Niks

As a rebuttal to a post saying people are missing out on the fact that Priests were nerfed and this went under the radar, exactly confirming it.

Blujixapug

Aktillum said:

more Priests should own Thoth's fangs. Jab + Chasten opens up lols.

The more people who use that, the faster it will be nerfed

Iocun said:

Eh, you'd be surprised how many do, particularly assuming some spam. I also remember how many people Cezil killed by forcing elm pipes into packs/letters. It usually only works once on a given opponent, but that's still one kill!

It works better for occultists because they can do stuff like force apply restoration - which they have the passive salve affs from humbug/firelord/crone to capitalise on - if you leave your resto out, or force you to put it in your pack, or shatter. They have the versatility. I remember fighting raja Poergh and getting shattered, and proned by the chimera... and shattered... and shattered. And tumbling around desperately trying to catch back up on salve applications while being chain shattered, not quite dying but never able to stand up.

Priests would be relying on it more as a gimmick, "Hey where'd my salve go," which only works once per opponent.

Iocun

Niks said:

As a rebuttal to a post saying people are missing out on the fact that Priests were nerfed and this went under the radar, exactly confirming it.

Of course you would say that. You're a priest, a class notorious for the fact of being able to angel trace off balance, angel refuge off balance, able to use shine without it dropping shield, able to resurrect evil Mhaldorians against their will, albe to help people to travel wide distances with deliverance in no-major-teleport world games, able to destroy chaos entities with warding even with a minion present, able to strip soulcage with cleansing, and able to angel seek people despite beds/privacy.

Niks

You can't rezz someone without their consent anymore.

Yes, I will say what I said... again... because you keep confirming it. I'm glad this thread has accidentally provided an opportunity to update peoples outdated view of the class.

Arador

Inquisition's strong point is that no one ever expects it......

Rangor

What's this inquisition?

What happened to lvl 3 mace and smite kills/breaks? To the cleansing + hourglass kills? To the priest perma shattering in kill rooms while your friends make full puppets of the target? What happened to the good old priest?