A Gentleman's Agreement

Kshavatra · December 2020

Atalkez said:

the only 'loss' is the time it took to send the 5 or 40 eats before that.

If they're all serverside separated or in an alias this is zero.

Unrelated to quote but related to thread, I think people pile on Shecks because he sounds like a snake oil salesman but he does have some decent ideas.

Shecks · December 2020

@Atalkez and I weren't arguing - we were just having a conversation and clearing up a technicality.

The point was lost though. Multi-line herb eats are just one of a hundred gimmicks than can very easily exploit offensive trackers.

No point in discussing it here in depth. I will make a post when I release the system that attempts to explain the mechanics and theory behind how a system like this works. If some people don't want to use the system (or, of course, copy it and claim they secretly invented it a year ago ) then that's of course fine with me.

Archaeon · December 2020

The only system I've seen that would fail to those kind of gimmicks is one I saw back oh... I'd say 2013 or 2015? Called godzilla. Very simplistic, very bare bones. Looked like a side project of a 13 year old who is taking a coding class.

Shecks · December 2020

Godzilla would fail to those illusions, because it is objectively impossible for any system (or any person) to parse them reliably. Even with lifevision, on a lifevision proc, any of the four herbs in my example could be the real one. The best possible thing a system could do in that scenario would be to assume a 25% chance of each herb being real and propagate that information into the system, or even better used an "assumed priority list" to guess which one was real based on current known information - but even that assumes that one of the herbs is real, which may indeed not even be the case.

This is my point. There are quite a lot of tricks that can be used (and we're only blathering on about a single one of them) that completely wreck trackers, and in a lot more ways than just false cures. I will provide a free, open-sourced framework for people to use that can very easily put an end to the tracker meta.

I'm quite sure someone will come along, copy/paste the code, change the color scheme, call it theirs, and pretend I stole it from them with a time machine, and I'm 100% fine with that.

Archaeon · December 2020

Best of luck to u

Gallida · December 2020

What if I only care about whether or not you sipped health and not what afflictions you have

Shecks · December 2020

Gallida said:

What if I only care about whether or not you sipped health and not what afflictions you have

I mean you can sip vials that won't consume any balance at all so this would be extremely easy to manipulate, but it's also so simple that there's really not much point in having a tracker for it. You can assume someone who doesn't have anorexia/stun/sleep will sip on every balance regardless of how many fake sips we send you. If I'm not mistaken there's a Trait that makes assess balanceless anyways.

Saonji · December 2020

Shecks said:

because it is objectively impossible for any system (or any person) to parse them reliably.

completely forgets mind sapience exists.

Looking forward to your logs smashing Penwize or Seragorn with your flawless illusions.

Vinzent · December 2020

I think enough people have relatively average curing priorities that manual players learn what people are going to cure in advance. It doesn't matter to me if you appear to cure three things at once, you're probably eating to cure paralysis or another equally pertinent affliction that can be guessed with high accuracy. This sort of logic could easily be applied to automation as a failsafe, either by learning priorities or assuming based on a hard list. Not to mention this would be plain useless against some classes. You'd really only effectively trick people if you had shit curing and did things way out of a sensible order.

Shecks · December 2020

Vinzent said:

I think enough people have relatively average curing priorities that manual players learn what people are going to cure in advance. It doesn't matter to me if you appear to cure three things at once, you're probably eating to cure paralysis or another equally pertinent affliction that can be guessed with high accuracy. This sort of logic could easily be applied to automation as a failsafe, either by learning priorities or assuming based on a hard list. Not to mention this would be plain useless against some classes. You'd really only effectively trick people if you had shit curing and did things way out of a sensible order.

Yeah mate, that's pretty much the point. It won't do much to people who don't automate everything and rely solely on affliction tracking to do all of their thinking for them. Returning us to that meta is exactly the goal.

Though - I've played every class prior to Alchemist extensively, and have at least read up on alch, scion, and DW, and I would not agree that there are classes that don't benefit from offensive tracking. Monk would for sure be the least of them but still typically relies on limb tracking and prone/not prone and other triggers nowadays. It doesn't mean people have to do it, but they do anyways.

Jovolo · December 2020

I don't know why people thought I was trolling on the previous page, I think Shecks is genuinely underappreciated for his combat know-how. Shecks and I have been light years ahead of pretty much the entire community when it comes to combat knowledge and while I have fallen off, he's managed to stay relevant and that's an impressive feat.

It was obvious what he was trying to say on the previous page and if you take the Shecks-Hate blinders off you might be able to see that from time to time.