Lupus Vs Artemis

Zulah

https://ada-young.com/pastebin/7D3Or-ob

In color with a guest Tlalaiad

Atalkez

From Eleusis perspective

https://ada-young.com/pastebin/rDlwke67

No color, there was way too much shrine spam to retain enough buffer, sorry folks!

Torrent

I kinda want to see Pandora's perspective now. Anyone got a log of that?

Archaeon

was the same except with cyrenians dropping food and being stupid

Ginarrbrik

https://pastebin.com/pPuj33VL

Here is my log of it, I cut out all of the spider spam and other irrelevant chatter but tried to keep it nice and readable.

Nicola

So, a bit of a dissection into the Nature faction, the evolution of this event, and the admin's decision making reasons.

In the summer of 2019, it became known throughout the playerbase that Artemis was returning. Some very kind soul had decided to leak all the information regarding this planned godrole, the events surrounding her return, and in some cases possible suspects for the brave individual who had decided to take the step into celani and eventually the Great Wrath godrole.

For reasons that should be obvious to all, this ruined the entire plan and the volunteer did not feel like they could play Artemis with all of this discussion. We had numerous old order members logging in and sending messages to Artemis, pre-welcoming her back, and overall creating a very uncomfortable and awkward situation.

I write this to make it clear that Artemis wasn't a hated godrole, nor do the admin team hate Eleusis and the Nature faction, nor was Artemis' death something we've had planned for years like some scheming cartoon villains.

It is true that we consider the Nature faction a difficult one to step into. It is public knowledge that Eleusis has been plagued with inconsistency, unreliable and short term Gods, OOC-driven order inductions, and Gods playing their orders off against one another. All of this has cultivated an environment where the gods have been disregarded, disrespected, and told that they basically exist in Eleusis to make things and to otherwise stay out of the way. That their time, efforts, and the information that they have available to create stories aren't welcome. It has been (modern historically) a toxic environment for volunteers.

This year we were very lucky to get a great celani candidate who wanted to play Gaia.

So we looked at where Eleusis is now, and what problems it suffers from, problems it has struggled with since before the nature divine went dormant. While unfortunate (and we searched for solutions), the main problems from our perspective are:

- "allied" divine who worked against one another creating divisions in the faction with their messages and orders
- a lack of purpose and identity in the Houses
- an ephemeral realm to protect which has been fragmented by frankly confusing religions over the years.

This has rendered each god less of an influence and power within "Nature" as none of them are strictly Nature, but all claim some small slice of a pie that isn't completely claimed. These leftovers began to moulder long ago.

But we have someone who wants to play Gaia! As admin it is on the shoulders of Makarios, Ictinus, and myself to set her up to best succeed, and so we decided on removing Artemis and Lupus and consolidating Nature under its original elder Goddess Mother figure. Under the scope of Mother of Nature, all of the Nature faction has a home, from the savage to the tender. This also serves to give a Nature god long needed metaphysical authority, so half of her faction can't just ignore her and wait for their chosen nature god to wake (or not), or play one off against the other.

So that's the background, now for the event.

Some will say it was cruel to wake Lupus up just to kill him off, or that we ignored Selene's legacy, or that Artemis could have said hello and inducted us into the order before dying.

Firstly, while the staff member behind Lupus did a lot for the game from an out of character standpoint, the in-character role itself had very little meaningful impact on the world of Achaea. But he was an Elder God, and had an order for centuries (this was dismantled when he fell to Bal'met). He deserved to go out with a bang, not simply to be knocked off on the quiet or left to sleep forever in some unresolved limbo (see above for one of the many reasons why that is a problem).

Players deserve to be in orders and experience that side of the roleplaying game with gods that are active and involving them. We were all players when the Bal'met saga occurred, and it would not have been our decision to prolong this in the way that Lupus sleeping has been drawn out.

The dreams people experienced through Narcolepsy were Lupus' thoughts, his dreams and his waking rage when he stirred to find his love gone. Lupus' incurable madness was testament to the strength of his love for Selene (and thereby testament to her realm). The Hunter deserved a final hunt.

For Artemis we tried to have her around as little as possible. She purposefully didn't interact with her Order because that would have gotten hopes up far worse than her silence suggested. There's no way to win this one, unfortunately. Feelings were always going to be hurt, and her loss was going to be keenly felt, but she was not the heavyweight in Nature lore or Achaea's history, she was simply the popular choice for many years.

But again we wanted to do her justice in her finale. We love all our god roles and think they all deserve fireworks and a spotlight, especially the rare few that we decide to remove from the Pantheon, and the Huntress, the Cataclysm taking on the Hunter was as epic an ending as we could offer them both.

While the event is not quite yet concluded, the worst is definitely done with and we are looking forward to supporting Gaia and Eleusis and see what stories and magic they bring into being in the years to come. This is a major opportunity for Eleusis, one that will have the full support of the admin and Garden teams.

There are going to be a lot of BUT... kneejerk reactions to this. If you're already involved in the ranting about this event please keep your opinions to that thread, this really isn't directed at you.

Zulah

@Nicola Thanks for pulling back the curtain a bit. Events good or bad draw out players old and new. Was good to see, even got to say hello to a few old friends who I hadn't seen in ages. They popped in simply because of such a big event!

Mathonwy

BUT... actually it seems like a lot of thought went into the event and the problems that have kind of been an open secret about Eleusis for a while. Looking forward to seeing what comes next!

Tukio

@Nicola Thank you for the explanation of everything that went on.

Irissa

@Nicola Will the scarring be permanent on participants as it suggests? And/or can we personally request to keep it permanent? Irissa never was inducted into the full order so she was unable to receive the tattoos the others have.

Kondar

@Nicola
Would it be at all possible to lift the "ban"(for lack of a better phrase) on High Clans - so those of us who spent RL years involved in the Tribe of Artemis to turn a clan we created into something more formal? We understand the "end", but we also had a LOT invested into it. We want to try and retain at least some semblance of a Tribe, and the Lore.
Thank you

Veldrin

For the best success, try to incorporate what the players already like and use instead of trying to force a new path that the admin want that is not in the direction the players want. Cause that stuff ain't working

Archaeon

Tldr   

Melodie

Kondar said:

@Nicola
Would it be at all possible to lift the "ban"(for lack of a better phrase) on High Clans - so those of us who spent RL years involved in the Tribe of Artemis to turn a clan we created into something more formal? We understand the "end", but we also had a LOT invested into it. We want to try and retain at least some semblance of a Tribe, and the Lore.
Thank you

Hi! Obviously I'm not an admin but I thought I'd share some thoughts on this, having gone through a (somewhat) similar situation.

When the Ordine Vashnar Lumeni was deleted in front of our faces in favor of supporting the Targossian-led Diaspora, there were also a lot of feelings. We did not get the kind of world event y'all had - but understandably, while 250-300 IC years of work and information were there along with the backing of a lot of history in prior events, it was not an actual "Order". Still, it hurt the feelings of many, including several who had freshly come out of dormancy to support it. It had been something I myself poured a lot of blood, sweat and tears into, as did Aerek. Moreover, it brought our characters together, and meant something to many more. But as it died, so eventually it led itself to Cyrene's choices (post my leaving the city) to reject Devotion wholly. I still congratulate them for that. Can't imagine it was easy.

I explain all of the above to add that I had a personal conversation with Phaestus, the main Patron of the Lumeni for ages, regarding some of the leftovers of the clan. In particular, there was a fairly detailed manuscript of the beliefs and idea we had taught that was removed from a plinth in the city proper, which he gave to me as a gift. I asked, should we not give it to the library of Cyrene instead? And he went on to explain that while such an act would be with good intentions of honoring the history of the Lumeni, the fact was that they were removed for ideas that no longer suited the modern world we were in. That down the line, other newer faces could re-discover it and attempt to revive and recreate it, only to not have learned from history where that path would take them; that its memory was now to be given to me, to recall and share as I wish, but to be removed from the curriculum of beliefs among the populace, and no longer serve as a divide in a faction.

It hurt at the time, but looking back now several years later, I can absolutely see the wisdom of what he told me. If you were to continue a High Clan based on Artemis' lore, you're not really letting the Goddess go. If anything, down the line, people might try and use it as a way to do the very thing she was partly removed for - divide the Nature faction. If you want to keep her a central part of your own character, that's more than fine! Even all these years later, I (and Melodie) well remember the Lumeni very fondly, and certain aspects have not left her character. But you shouldn't plant the seed that could reap future divide for your faction, and you can't predict what people will do in the future.

My advice is to remember fondly, but in a public sense, let go.

Johlo

@Nicola

I thank you for the in depth look into the reasoning and decision making process of the event that transpired. 

I would like to respectfully ask about the person, or people, who ruined the return of Artemis in the spring of 2019. It seems to me that they are, in part, responsible for the fact that some Eleusian players, or at least myself, lost a huge part of our character's identity.

I know that Artemis returning during that summer wouldn't have fixed the issues that you and the Administrative team have highlighted, but I am curious to know if there's any disciplinary action the Adminstration team can, or has taken, in situations like this. The actions of a few ruined it for many, and led us to a longer period without Artemis being awake, which arguably made her brief awakening only to be killed worse. 

I would hope that for adventurers in the future, there's something that can be done to mitigate this kind of unfortunate situtation. 

Nicola

@Kondar Melodie hits my answer entirely on the head.

@Johlo The team member responsible was removed from the Garden. The players involved are known to the garden team and are blacklisted from celani/guide/similar programs and are experiencing much less divine/admin interaction than their peers (while we cannot punish them for their heinous actions, it's very evident that no one in the Garden wants anything to do with those people.)

Stheno

@Colgano, while Eleusis may be conflicted about how it ended, I liked the Anachaine ritual here. Good job!

Zulah

Nicola said:

The players involved ... are experiencing much less divine/admin interaction than their peers

@Nicola I see how it is, this is why Hermes left me... One(ish) wrong bet and he blackballed me