Cyrene specific class tree?

Navarr

So I thought I'd might as well start this thread just to throw some ideas around and keep them in the one place. I'm sure there's people with great ideas to share, let's try keep it nice.

I started with an idea already elsewhere in another thread,  but I'm such a forum newbie I haven't figured out how to link it here.....anyway. My first idea was to have a skill that might summon the restless spirits of the murdered Cyrenian denizens to fight and enact retribution. 

Cooper

Runewardens Runelore turns into AdvancedPaperwork

Archaeon

could have one where your opponent is given 5 minute pacification and cannot move from the room, during which time you can have tea and discuss which play you like best.



In all seriousness, I don't think that Cyrene having a factional skill fits in with the 'We just want to be left alone' thing.

Jinos

I draw a blank when it comes to a factional skill tree for Cyrene. Something for the Bards? Runewardens?

I never know what's feasible, but since these ideas and ponderings are just for fun. 

Maybe some different flavor with harmonics, and for a Bard's funeral mass. Subjecting the victim to the horrors of the bloated and waterlogged cyrenians dragging them down into the depths of the Muurn.

Or if the skill tree was for Cyrene runewardens, they could summon and ride the Wyrms from the Muurn and use them in conjunction with attacks.

Navarr

Love the Wyrm rider idea @Jinos ;

I'm not very familiar with other classes, I play a runewarden and a heavily RP'd blademaster and very long ago a Sentinel in my other iterations. So my thoughts might centre around those but would love to hear more for other classes.

Maybe blademaster can have a new stance perhaps? Death stance? Although that borders on the darker necromantic sounding things. However, going back to the teachings of Lord Thoth, death is not inherently evil and there is an intrinsic balance of life and death, that's the angle I'm going with that tangent of thought. Now I'm just rambling,  I have a huge tendency for it   

Pyori

Runewarden would make the most sense, if Cyrene were ever to get one. Definitely not Blademaster.

Thematically I loved the Dragon specialisation for warriors in MKO, and Dragon Knight in ESO is fun. Would be interesting to see something along those lines. Maybe not dragon riding, given they don't really have any connection to Han-tolneth and his dragon riders, they do have Blu though; could channel his power or something. I'd replace Chivalry with it, personally, not Runelore.

That said, I agree with Archaeon... Strangely enough... Having a skill tied to your city, when you want to (generally) abstain for factional conflict... Is not a great idea. Unless Cyrene ups and decides they've had enough of being pacifists (I doubt their 'aggression' lately will last forever).

Navarr

I can understand those thoughts about the whole Cyrene wanting to be left alone thing, however I'm just throwing ideas around in an attempt to balance somehow what the other cities have.

Cyrene stood up to the Tsol'teth and fought to get their home back, which I think is deserving enough to be granted some kind of specialty. Perhaps something more defense related instead of being a more offensive theme of specialty? Cyrene will always defend itself and I certainly do feel that the offensive stance at the moment is a temporary one, so going with those thoughts, definitely something more defensive seems more fitting.

Lenn

There are some cool ideas like water magic and alternative knight skills, but to be honest, none of them seem nearly as iconic to Cyrene as every factional class is to their own cities, except what @Pyori said above about Blu.

Blu is basically the most famous and beloved city guardian there is. The only other one I can even name off the top of my head is Mhaldorus, and Mhaldor is literally in his name. I doubt there are many players who know anything about Cyrene and don't also know about Blu, whereas I still don't know who Eleusis's guardian is and I played there for in-game decades.

If they actually got a class based on him, it'd honestly feel right to me, whereas every other idea here feels more than a bit forced.

Tahquil

We'll call them Dragonknights.

Pyori

Lenn said:

whereas I still don't know who Eleusis's guardian is and I played there for in-game decades.

I don't mean this as a slight against you, but you probably don't know because you didn't care to research it. (Not that the story is super amazing anyway).

The Guardian of Thorns was a replacement for the Guardian of Nature, it was created from a cocoon after the latter sacrificed itself to cure a blight that was affecting Eleusis. It also wields the Spear of the Watcher, which is a relic created by the old Sentinels to fight Kolyartus ages ago. Its existence isn't as spectacular as Blu's, but it's still equally important to Eleusis. Though the Guardian of Nature had more significance imo.

Keorin

I've been pondering this question for a bit now, and so I figured I'd throw out a few of my own silly ideas!

First idea: take sentinel, and replace metamorphosis with a skill that lets you fight with one of our new lake wyrms. The wyrms are awesome and horrifying, have a reason for Cyrene to have control over them, and it would feel appropriate with the role that the lake played in this recent stuff!

Second idea: take sylvan, replace propagation with a more focused ice magic skill. Cyrene is well known for its weather, and weather magic + ice magic would feel rather fitting for the city.

(and yes, these both come from forestal classes, but skirmishing and most of woodlore don't have specific forestal ties, and let a girl have her dreams, alright?)

I've also always thought a class that rode the mountain drakes that live in the vashnars would be cool, and might fit around a Blu theme. On the other hand, I later found out that there's an Imperian class that's basically just that.

And of course, any factional class is unrealistic, and possibly unnecessary for as long as Cyrene is content to remain a completely unchanging city (especially if that's the route we choose to take after everything that's happened, which seems unfortunately likely). Of course, the flip side of that is that -having- something factional would probably help drive that somewhat. But hey, maybe we'll be able to combine the city's tendencies with a bit more of an active role in the world, at some point, and then we can be next in line.

Kiet

Here's the thing, though. Factional classes are for the factionalized cities. Being factionalized means people will raid you constantly, from every angle. Is Cyrene really willing to provoke that? If not, why should they have factional classes? Hashan 'earned' their new tree by, well, provoking the entire game to raid them, basically. Cyrene lost access to their city for a RL week and it was extremely upsetting to some people so how would they react if they were pushed to be an actual extreme faction?

Essentially, I agree that a factional class doesn't coincide with wanting to be removed from world conflict, even if that's a valid reason for a city to exist.

Ryx

Something like Groves, but instead of tending to your forest and kicking people out of the forest and setting up golems in the forest... something more city-oriented. Maybe it only works on roads. Like making a lemonade stand! You hire guards for your lemonade stand. Instead of sunlight, you collect childrens' playmoney. Instead of grove eyes, you have informants...

But for real, I like the bard idea a lot. I associate Cyrene with culture and I think it would make sense if they had a culture-themed tree like bard. Maybe mechanically there'd be problems with factionalized classes (I'm not experienced enough to know) but roleplay-wise you could say something like they have a school of higher learning?

Paux

Nah, Cyrene should get something much cooler than a skill. Especially right after Hashan got theirs, it'd cheapen the reward. 

Cyrene should get something related to the city itself, that people could point to and say "Thanks to the valiant efforts of its citizens' defence against the Tsol'teth, Cyrene has _______." Or somehow a nod back to this time in history.

Maybe the flooding caused a cave to open up that serves as a Song of the Grotto for bards of Cyrene. My friend suggested the city gets a city defense that they can activate to rain down icicles on city enemies within the city. 

If Earth Elemental Lords didn't already get it, I'd say Cyrenese Magi getting a skill for Fissure or Landslide or Avalanche or something to represent Cyrene dropping half a mountain on Hailiquasaritntiahrrlsislsis.

Taryius

The real problem for Cyrene is finding something -only- their city has, that they could restrict other people from using. This is foundational to all the factional classes that exist today, there is something in or about the factional cities that offers them enough of a significant RP resource to restrict only to themselves, and said cities are built around it.

Mhaldor is built around Sartan. Sartan gave us Necromancy, and our Life Essence is drawn through Him, thus it makes sense that he wouldn't give that gift to people who fight against His will, he just simply delegates the rejection stamping to a mortal. Divine have places to be after all.

Eleusis is built around Nature. Forestal classes draw power from Nature, and it makes sense that if someone is enemied to Nature they would be rejected.

Targossas is built around Good. I don't really know the mechanics behind devotion devotion, but it makes little sense that Celestia would send you a personal angel if you were fighting against the cause Celestia is devoted to. Good.

Ashtan is built around Chaos, they have an allegiance with the Chaos Court who are responsible for sending the lil ents. If you fought the Chaos Courts allies, it makes sense for them to not give you lil lacky bloodleeches.

Hashan is founded on the Wellspring, it drives their rituals. If you need the Wellspring to cast these new powers, you need to go through Hashan to get to it.

All the factional classes draw on a resource of some kind, gated behind a Divine/thing that justifies being able to restrict and control it. An entire skill developed around being given something by another force.

There isn't a whole lot for Cyrene in this regard, -yet-, they get a new Bard skill, even if say some tutor takes station in Cyrene what is to stop people from just breaking in and learning from him? Maybe he only teaches Cyrenians, what happens if a Cyrenian quits?

Having these gifts, these forces tends to come with the caveat of RP'ing around them, and what do you call RP about several conflicting forces in the world? Conflict. Cyrene would need to take a stance that isn't "Our stance is no stance".

Taryius

Paux said:

If Earth Elemental Lords didn't already get it, I'd say Cyrenese Magi getting a skill for Fissure or Landslide or Avalanche or something to represent Cyrene dropping half a mountain on Hailiquasaritntiahrrlsislsis.

Except Cyrene didn't drop the mountain on Hailqas'an she dropped it on herself by enacting Gattan'lier's Terminus Earthquake suicide word.

Jinos

@Taryius ;

I've personally found that no stance hardly ever means no conflict, because... well people gravitate towards trying to bend others without a stance toward their own ideals, and if that fails they see the group as a threat.

Every fight I've ever been in has been over the fact that I didn't want to fight. Minding my own business, and just keeping to myself has never stopped anyone from trying to do something to me.

I don't know how Cyrene will progress in their Neutrality after all of this. I really don't want things to become lax, but I hope that the majority can come to the realization that the very existence of Cyrene will forever bring it into conflict over a battle torn continent where other factions seek to achieve their ideals over everyone else.

Taryius

Jinos said:

@Taryius ;

I've personally found that no stance hardly ever means no conflict, because... well people gravitate towards trying to bend others without a stance toward their own ideals, and if that fails they see the group as a threat.

Every fight I've ever been in has been over the fact that I didn't want to fight. Minding my own business, and just keeping to myself has never stopped anyone from trying to do something to me.

I don't know how Cyrene will progress in their Neutrality after all of this. I really don't want things to become lax, but I hope that the majority can come to the realization that the very existence of Cyrene will forever bring it into conflict over a battle torn continent where other factions seek to achieve their ideals over everyone else.

That is a good point, and you are correct. Cyrene does see conflict, Cyrenians do see conflict, when its brought to them. I don't personally think there is anything wrong with playing reactively but it does hamper the ability to forge your own factional identity in Achaea. You don't -always- have to be proactive, because god that would be a huge burden to have, but it is a strong part of cementing yourself as unique.

Cyrene's been making huge strides towards this, and I truly hope the momentum carries them forward and they continue to ride this wave (pun intended). They are proactively fighting the Tsol'teth, and are starting, just starting, to do the same versus enemies that do strictly violate, oppose and threaten their sanctity (Mhaldor.)

I don't think Cyrene should abandon their theme, or playerbase and become "The Last City that will drown out the voices of those that dare deny Neraeos word!" even if that sounds awesome. I've always said, I think Cyrene should cement themselves as sort of self-proclaimed peacekeepers. Protect your city first and foremost, only attack people that are threatening your peace but don't be afraid to proactively act against the bad forces of the world. Who decides whats a bad force, thats completely up to Cyrene! 

Kresslack

Here I thought Runewarden was the unofficial Cyrene themed class. It certainly has the most historical relevance and ties to Cyrene. That should fit quite nicely, considering they've always been associated with no particular philosophy, just as Cyrene has. Seems to me as if this is already there, but just could be embraced or expanded more culturally.

Keorin

Taryius said:

The real problem for Cyrene is finding something -only- their city has, that they could restrict other people from using. This is foundational to all the factional classes that exist today, there is something in or about the factional cities that offers them enough of a significant RP resource to restrict only to themselves, and said cities are built around it.

We have two things for this, actually! Our lake spirit and our new river spirit. It's one reason why the lake wyrm thing has some reasoning behind it: the wyrms are controlled by the Bairn Muurn, and currently guard our city because of an agreement we made with her. It's not an ideological thing like other cities have, but its fairly in line with Hashan's reason for having a factional class being that it's built over a big power source that they can now tap.

As for reasons for Cyrene to take a better stance in the world...(and no, I'm not serious here, this is a joke, but I've been on a seleucarian history kick, obviously enough)

Nikolas: "I am not a conquerer…"

Sarapis: "Who is better suited to conquer wisely than one who does not wish conquest? Will you conquer in order to save this world?"

Adrik

A new weaponmastery type for Runies only in Cyrene would be pretty awesome.

It was said somewhere back, but a fucking polearm Knight is something I [b]sorely[/b] want. We got Shikudo, but that's more just. Smack someone with bendy stick and spam kai cripple whenever you're prone and someone didn't touch your arms.

Polearm Knight could lead in with Wyvern Mounts that Cyrenians get. The weaponmastery bit would give them the ability to ride said Wyvern.

Navarr

Just wanted to mention something about the word 'neutrality'. It's a word I don't like using because I don't believe it truly exists.  Cyrene, as I see it, is pro-Cyrene. This viewpoint is long ingrained from my time as a sentinel back in the guild days when the argument of nature being 'neutral' was a hot topic of discussion, with many understanding that it's not neutral, but pro-nature.

So here I will point out that I view Cyrene as "pro-Cyrene", and thus pro all that Cyrene has stood for, what it was founded upon and how it is evolving as a result of these events by the Tsol'teth. I hardly see this as being neutral, I think most will agree that they will fight vehemently for Cyrene, most of us did during the fight to get it back.

Loving the ideas though, do keep sharing please 

Telendrieth

Can everyone not putting up neat ideas kindly shove off? Literally Cyrene the DAY of getting back her city was raided by Hashan with Mhaldor having a presence at the same time a member of Targ was trying to take advantage of the occupation and see if all of our shops stockrooms were still secure. We've got a fair bit of conflict currently and have been rising to it decently enough. Aside from that, just having a skillset tied to you doesn't mean you have to be a polarized faction. That's just how those classes were, and tend to be in this game, but that also doesn't have to be a requirement. It could simply be culture or something invented there.

To keep this tied to the topic. I've been pushing for Cyrene to get something with working alongside Hycanthus. Maybe runewardens who turn runelore into a skillset more oriented around bombs and explosives. It could also come paired with a new spec in weaponmastery focusing on sword and pistol for melee and the use of rifles for ranged. Achaea has slowly been adding more explosives, clockwork machinations, and general tech as the years go by. What better way to finally have adventurers capture that new power source than by Hycanthus working with the citizens of Cyrene to make it so? I've had the idea for a musket floating in my head worked with a snarling visage of Blu at the end of the barrel called "Roar of the Mountains" that I really can't shake. 

Astarod

I mean what I think would make sense the most would be some sort of runewarden with a specialty in defense. After harbouring civilians for years and years, the shield devised a sort of special art beyond Chivalry which would be referred to as survivalism. This skill line would be dedicated towards empowering, entrenching, and uprooting entrenched persons within Cyrene and a radius of adjacent rooms.

Now, this'll answer a few questions some people would have about this proposition:

What would prevent people from stealing the skill?

Well, anyone could choose it, but it would have the lesson cost, and the source of this power would be the runes that runewardens would engrave across Cyrene, and if branded an enemy of Cyrene, you would lose access to the empowerment that one would receive from these rooms. 

Why Cyrene?

If anyone has noticed, Cyrene gets raided a lot by factions who want to kick people around and don't feel like going to a city that is empty, can guard, or has combatants who can wipe the floor with them. Now, I know people are saying that Cyrene isn't "Factional", but you can't have it both ways- if it's a place people go to be left alone, then why are you raiding it in the first place? If you want them to defend, or be more than a place people go to be left alone, then why are you preventing a factional skillset in this city? All I'm saying is that there are people in Cyrene who have visions on what Cyrene could be other than the place we joke about cybering the most. Sometimes, you just need a little push. Then a little harder push. This could be something that gives merit to Cyrenian combatants. 

What RP reason do they have?

Not being thrown on the ground and stepped on the neck of every time another city/person decides to kick around non-comms.


While bards and whatnot seem like a cool idea, I would like to point out that the whole big deal behind Cyrene is defense. Having something where you could get special defense boosts, and offensive, defensive boosts (inhibiting enemies from entrenching) would be super cool- not to mention give people reason (outside of Cyrene) to go there for something other than shopping sprees. 


Just my two cents!

Shirszae

Don't you dare add polearms and make it a factional skill. I will fucking revolt.   

Astarod

Shirszae said:

Don't you dare add polearms and make it a factional skill. I will fucking revolt.   

It's gonna happen. After all these years and you left!

Vhaith

Taryius said:

The real problem for Cyrene is finding something -only- their city has, that they could restrict other people from using. This is foundational to all the factional classes that exist today, there is something in or about the factional cities that offers them enough of a significant RP resource to restrict only to themselves, and said cities are built around it.

Mhaldor is built around Sartan. Sartan gave us Necromancy, and our Life Essence is drawn through Him, thus it makes sense that he wouldn't give that gift to people who fight against His will, he just simply delegates the rejection stamping to a mortal. Divine have places to be after all.

Eleusis is built around Nature. Forestal classes draw power from Nature, and it makes sense that if someone is enemied to Nature they would be rejected.

Targossas is built around Good. I don't really know the mechanics behind devotion devotion, but it makes little sense that Celestia would send you a personal angel if you were fighting against the cause Celestia is devoted to. Good.

Ashtan is built around Chaos, they have an allegiance with the Chaos Court who are responsible for sending the lil ents. If you fought the Chaos Courts allies, it makes sense for them to not give you lil lacky bloodleeches.

Hashan is founded on the Wellspring, it drives their rituals. If you need the Wellspring to cast these new powers, you need to go through Hashan to get to it.

All the factional classes draw on a resource of some kind, gated behind a Divine/thing that justifies being able to restrict and control it. An entire skill developed around being given something by another force.

There isn't a whole lot for Cyrene in this regard, -yet-, they get a new Bard skill, even if say some tutor takes station in Cyrene what is to stop people from just breaking in and learning from him? Maybe he only teaches Cyrenians, what happens if a Cyrenian quits?

Having these gifts, these forces tends to come with the caveat of RP'ing around them, and what do you call RP about several conflicting forces in the world? Conflict. Cyrene would need to take a stance that isn't "Our stance is no stance".

Just wanna say that angels aren't Devotion.

It's tied into the Targossas faction (I believe), because devotional essence is holy magic born from the force of Good itself.
I think it's kinda the opposite of Necromancy?

Taryius

Vhaith said:

Taryius said:

The real problem for Cyrene is finding something -only- their city has, that they could restrict other people from using. This is foundational to all the factional classes that exist today, there is something in or about the factional cities that offers them enough of a significant RP resource to restrict only to themselves, and said cities are built around it.

Mhaldor is built around Sartan. Sartan gave us Necromancy, and our Life Essence is drawn through Him, thus it makes sense that he wouldn't give that gift to people who fight against His will, he just simply delegates the rejection stamping to a mortal. Divine have places to be after all.

Eleusis is built around Nature. Forestal classes draw power from Nature, and it makes sense that if someone is enemied to Nature they would be rejected.

Targossas is built around Good. I don't really know the mechanics behind devotion devotion, but it makes little sense that Celestia would send you a personal angel if you were fighting against the cause Celestia is devoted to. Good.

Ashtan is built around Chaos, they have an allegiance with the Chaos Court who are responsible for sending the lil ents. If you fought the Chaos Courts allies, it makes sense for them to not give you lil lacky bloodleeches.

Hashan is founded on the Wellspring, it drives their rituals. If you need the Wellspring to cast these new powers, you need to go through Hashan to get to it.

All the factional classes draw on a resource of some kind, gated behind a Divine/thing that justifies being able to restrict and control it. An entire skill developed around being given something by another force.

There isn't a whole lot for Cyrene in this regard, -yet-, they get a new Bard skill, even if say some tutor takes station in Cyrene what is to stop people from just breaking in and learning from him? Maybe he only teaches Cyrenians, what happens if a Cyrenian quits?

Having these gifts, these forces tends to come with the caveat of RP'ing around them, and what do you call RP about several conflicting forces in the world? Conflict. Cyrene would need to take a stance that isn't "Our stance is no stance".

Just wanna say that angels aren't Devotion.

It's tied into the Targossas faction (I believe), because devotional essence is holy magic born from the force of Good itself.
I think it's kinda the opposite of Necromancy?

Huh, I thought being excommed stopped angel summon for Priests. Or is it just mechanically similarly to how Necromancy is completely seperate flavor/lore wise from Apostasy, but you essentially bribe your Baalzadeen to serve you with some life essence, so if you lose the life essence from being excommed, you eventually lose demon boi. 

Melodie

Summoning an angel requires a small bit of your devotion (used up) in order to do. It is tied to devotion, but is also primarily a function of spirituality... for a guardian angel. But angels themselves are a lot more varied than just the guardian sorts.

You can be a rogue priest, just as you can just a rogue apostate. It's just rough going. Also, devotion being in no other city except Targossas is fairly new (compared to the majority of history).

Also also, not all demons follow Sartan (this is, in fact, the distinction between daemon and demon). Both the Inferno and Celestia are incredibly varied. See: angels up on Nur, and various historical articles about Inferno invasions. 

(Sorry for the deviation, Cyrene, carry on).

Telendrieth

Melodie said:

Summoning an angel requires a small bit of your devotion (used up) in order to do. It is tied to devotion, but is also primarily a function of spirituality... for a guardian angel. But angels themselves are a lot more varied than just the guardian sorts.

You can be a rogue priest, just as you can just a rogue apostate. It's just rough going. Also, devotion being in no other city except Targossas is fairly new (compared to the majority of history).

Also also, not all demons follow Sartan (this is, in fact, the distinction between daemon and demon). Both the Inferno and Celestia are incredibly varied. See: angels up on Nur, and various historical articles about Inferno invasions. 

(Sorry for the deviation, Cyrene, carry on).

Actually always wondered about demon/daemon. Thank you for the tidbit of info.

Asmodron

Anyone that knows me knows that I love coming up with skill/class concepts. I agree with others that putting the man power into a skill for an org based on isolation, seems like a waste. That being said, this will be fun. Looking forward to what players come up with.