Adventure Rewards

Kelhrae

So, I have been looking over the rewards you get for trading in renown and trying to decide which ones would give the best ROI.

1 hour xp bonus (10%)       - 10 renown
1 hour crit bonus (2%)      - 10 renown
10,000 gold                 - 15 renown
6 lessons                   - 15 renown
30k gold cap increase       - 20 renown
3 hour xp bonus (10%)       - 25 renown
3 hour crit bonus (2%)      - 25 renown
60 lessons                  - 140 renown
600 lessons                 - 1300 renown
an adventurer's giftbox*    - 2000 renown

So, unless you are low 20s and 30s, I don't see the 10k gold being very useful and I don't know what the 30k gold cap increase is about at all. 6 lessons seems like a waste of renown regardless of what circle you are and so does 60 lessons. So that leaves the xp bonuses, crit bonuses, 600 lessons and giftbox.

Looking at the amounts required and the amount of renown gained per task depending on difficulty... you are looking at a minimum 70 days straight doing tasks on hard just to get the giftbox, assuming you complete each task since you can only take 1 task per in game month. So for the lower level, non-transed toons like myself... would you smarter and more experienced players recommend getting the xp and crit bonuses to increase leveling thus increasing gold production for credits, or is it still more beneficial to just do the highest difficulty you can for each task and just wait for the giftboxes?

If you are running just medium, you are looking at 100 days for a giftbox, vs 2.5 days for 3 hour crit or exp bonus.

Easy would be 200 days obviously. So over half a year for 1 artifact. Somehow that just doesn't seem like a very good ROI... but I could very well be wrong.

Kaedan

Kelhrae said:

If you are running just medium, you are looking at 100 days for a giftbox, vs 2.5 days for 3 hour crit or exp bonus.

Easy would be 200 days obviously. So over half a year for 1 artifact. Somehow that just doesn't seem like a very good ROI... but I could very well be wrong.

It's not 100 days, it's 300 days. You can only do one adventure challenge every cycle, and a cycle lasts three days. Since you need to do mediums 100 times, it means you need 100 cycles, which is a period of 300 days. Almost a full year. Doing Easy's would be 200 cycles, or 600 days, a little more than 1.5 years.

Kelhrae

Kaedan said:

Kelhrae said:

If you are running just medium, you are looking at 100 days for a giftbox, vs 2.5 days for 3 hour crit or exp bonus.

Easy would be 200 days obviously. So over half a year for 1 artifact. Somehow that just doesn't seem like a very good ROI... but I could very well be wrong.

It's not 100 days, it's 300 days. You can only do one adventure challenge every cycle, and a cycle lasts three days. Since you need to do mediums 100 times, it means you need 100 cycles, which is a period of 300 days. Almost a full year. Doing Easy's would be 200 cycles, or 600 days, a little more than 1.5 years.

It's 1 per cycle? I thought it was one per game month... well, now I really have to re-evaluate the ROI on things and the giftbox seems less worth it vs the crits...

Cooper

You're wrong about the usefulness of pretty much all of that.

As a player who has almost everything, I'm struggling to pick which one of those I want the most because they all have great uses.

Lower level players should avoid the gold crap increase and also the crit bonus, lessons and gold should be your priority, unless you're patient enough to save up for the giftbox.

Kelhrae

Cooper said:

You're wrong about the usefulness of pretty much all of that.

As a player who has almost everything, I'm struggling to pick which one of those I want the most because they all have great uses.

Lower level players should avoid the gold crap increase and also the crit bonus, lessons and gold should be your priority, unless you're patient enough to save up for the giftbox.

@Cooper I'm not surprised about being wrong. Could you elaborate on the usefulness please? I'm struggling to find it on my own it seems. Getting another view point would be greatly appreciated.

Cooper

Right now you have a handful of main goals as a new player - gain levels, get to know the world, start to learn the culture of your city/house, and get gold/credits/lessons to learn your skills.

For 15 renowned, you can get 10,000 gold. Right now, earning 10,000 gold will probably take you an hour, maybe a bit less. Or you can spend some time doing an adventure and get that amount. My adventure took me 3 minutes to do, and got me 30 renowned.

If you aren't able to purchase credits from the website, the lessons are going to be super useful for you too. 6 lessons (1 credit worth) is 15 renowned (which is equal to 10,000 gold), since a credit costs 12,500 on the credit market right now it's more efficient to convert to lessons if you need to learn skills.

Once you get a bit higher level, the increase gold cap, increase critical hits, and increase experience may become much more relevant to you.

Maccabeus

Do the giftbags contain a random item or do you get to pick what you want from the list? I assume it’s random, but the wording in one of the help scrolls sounded a little equivocal to me.

Thaisen

Random 

Lenn

@Makarios said you get to pick. Perhaps the HELP could be more direct about that.

Thaisen

Oh I confused it with globes.... adventure gift bags you get to pick yeah.

Maccabeus

Thaisen said:

Oh I confused it with globes.... adventure gift bags you get to pick yeah.

Awesome

Ziros

Do you think we could convince them to switch the Dirk with the l1 lash? Same credit price but would be more practical.

[Deleted User]

Or just add the lash, without switching it out. Dirk is great.

Mercer

The ROI depends a great deal on your level of character development.

Do the challenges scale with level? As far as I can tell at the time of this writing, they do not.

Very few low level characters are going to have the capability, connections and/or game knowledge to go out and kill a leviathan, win an arena rampage event, sink a ship, complete a bounty, etc. So that rules out hard adventures. The medium level adventures are pretty impossible for lowbies as well, at least from what I've seen of them. That means, at best, characters in the developmental pre-level 80 stages are going to be left taking easy adventures.

That means 10 points every 3 days. 130 days for 600 lessons. How many young players are really going to do that? 6 lessons isn't meaningful enough to even remember and 14 days for 60? Pffft. No way a new character is going to use the system with that goal in mind. On the other hand, 43 days for 600 is a bit more reasonable, but the people who will benefit the most from that aren't likely to really need those extra lessons all that badly.

10%xp? 2% crit bonus? Newbies aren't even going to notice. This might be a bigger deal for characters closing in on dragon, particularly if they stack with other bonuses.

30k gold cap increase? For end game bashing sure, for everybody else, nope!

Which brings us to the Giftbox... This item is there to make the rewards look sexy. To be fair, some of the items you can win are things that I'd legitimately want. But lets be real about this. You need to be a fully developed character and consistently tackle hard adventures every 3 days to get one of these in... 70 days?. Then you get maybe a one in thirty shot of getting something useful and can't trade in any item that you don't want or can't use. Whereas you could just grind up gold, buy credits off the market, and purchase any of those artefacts directly in a tiny fraction of the time. The giftbox is a really silly gamble. The people who dedicate the most to adventuring and get the giftbox have the highest chance of ending up with nothing meaningful to show for their investment.

The idea here is good, but who is this system actually aimed at? The rewards that low level characters can achieve aren't all that meaningful to them, and the rewards for high level characters can, for the most part, be earned far cheaper and more time efficiently through other in-game methods of grinding. It seems like a little more tweaking is in order.

Kaedan

Mercer said:

Which brings us to the Giftbox... This item is there to make the rewards look sexy. To be fair, some of the items you can win are things that I'd legitimately want. But lets be real about this. You need to be a fully developed character and consistently tackle hard adventures every 3 days to get one of these in half a real life year. Then you get maybe a one in thirty shot of getting something useful and can't trade in any item that you don't want or can't use.

You get to choose what item you get from the giftbox when you open it. It isn't random, this has been confirmed by Makarios. It's just like the giftboxes from the last wheel promo.

That said, I sort of agree after seeing some of these adventure challenges. They seem fairly difficult even in the medium category for the amount of reward you get, particularly for those without artefacts/Dragon already.

Nicola

Almost all of the adventures can also be completed as a group, none of the big hunting challenges are designed to be completed solo and reward credit for all in the group if multiple people have the same adventure, this is the same with the seafaring sink/salvage/seamonster ones too.

Talmir

While I agree that the time frame on getting things seems rather long, I had originally thought I could do a task daily before finding out it was 1 per cycle, I think that if you have the patience, that gift box is a rather good thing. I just took Mayan Bracelets off my list of items to buy because I can get it from the box. Same as the Dirk. That frees up credits for me to spend on other items that cost more or upgrades to any I already have like my l1 belt.

The issue, is how many people really have the patience to spend the amount of time it will take to get enough renown for 1 box. Let alone multiples if you are for example a knight. There are weapons for every spec in there... that would save you a ton in credits, but take a very long time to get each.

Kaedan

Talmir said:

The issue, is how many people really have the patience to spend the amount of time it will take to get enough renown for 1 box. Let alone multiples if you are for example a knight. There are weapons for every spec in there... that would save you a ton in credits, but take a very long time to get each.

It's not intended to replace getting even level 1 artefacts en masse. It's something so that, if over that long term, you still haven't gotten one of those, you have a bit of help. If it's an artefact that you feel you need as that class, I'd recommend just getting it the old fashioned way and use the renown for something else. If it's not, then again it's just a little bonus down the line and not something you should really worry about needing an excessive amount of patience for.

Talmir

Kaedan said:

Talmir said:

The issue, is how many people really have the patience to spend the amount of time it will take to get enough renown for 1 box. Let alone multiples if you are for example a knight. There are weapons for every spec in there... that would save you a ton in credits, but take a very long time to get each.

It's not intended to replace getting even level 1 artefacts en masse. It's something so that, if over that long term, you still haven't gotten one of those, you have a bit of help. If it's an artefact that you feel you need as that class, I'd recommend just getting it the old fashioned way and use the renown for something else. If it's not, then again it's just a little bonus down the line and not something you should really worry about needing an excessive amount of patience for.

I'm not saying using it get level 1 artefacts en masse. My point was that it could be used to help supplement some of the items on a persons list. For example, Mayan Bracelets are 350 credits, SoA is 800. I can save the 350 I was going to use on bracelets, wait a bit longer for them, and apply that 350 to the cost of the shield. Thus allowing me to focus on some of the higher cost artefacts and gaining the lower cost ones further down the road. Or, I can use the 350 credits for the bracelets to put towards upgrading my belt to l2.

Mercer

Nicola said:

Almost all of the adventures can also be completed as a group, none of the big hunting challenges are designed to be completed solo and reward credit for all in the group if multiple people have the same adventure, this is the same with the seafaring sink/salvage/seamonster ones too.

I hate to say this but... that isn't going to happen. It is absolutely reasonable to think that people will want to party up to tackle group adventures, but a party of low level characters with no lesson investment won't stand a better chance than one low level character for the majority of mediums and hards. Higher level characters aren't terribly likely to team up with low level characters.

Everybody gets a random adventure. They are very personal. If I am tasked to kill a ketea, and my companion is tasked to sail to Suliel, those are two very different things. It isn't likely that players will be able to find other players with the exact same or compatible adventure who want to team up on a regular basis. For there to be any meaningful payoff for the system, you need to adventure pretty much constantly because 30 points every 3 days is a slow progression before you see a payoff... even slower for 20 or 10.

Before anyone says "But think of the social possibilities of meeting random people by seeking out those with the same adventure!". To that I say, sure... once or twice. But not every three days. By and large, people just don't do that.

Edit: I am glad to know I was wrong about the giftbox being random. That does make it significantly more appealing.

Astarod

Mercer said:

Nicola said:

Almost all of the adventures can also be completed as a group, none of the big hunting challenges are designed to be completed solo and reward credit for all in the group if multiple people have the same adventure, this is the same with the seafaring sink/salvage/seamonster ones too.

I hate to say this but... that isn't going to happen. It is absolutely reasonable to think that people will want to party up to tackle group adventures, but a party of low level characters with no lesson investment won't stand a better chance than one low level character for the majority of mediums and hards. Higher level characters aren't terribly likely to team up with low level characters.

Everybody gets a random adventure. They are very personal. If I am tasked to kill a ketea, and my companion is tasked to sail to Suliel, those are two very different things. It isn't likely that players will be able to find other players with the exact same or compatible adventure who want to team up on a regular basis. For there to be any meaningful payoff for the system, you need to adventure pretty much constantly because 30 points every 3 days is a slow progression before you see a payoff... even slower for 20 or 10.

Before anyone says "But think of the social possibilities of meeting random people by seeking out those with the same adventure!". To that I say, sure... once or twice. But not every three days. By and large, people just don't do that.

Recommended Steps:
1. City Quit <yourCityName>.
2. Walk to EPICURUS
3. ask EPICURUS JOIN ASHTAN
4. ct Can anyone help me kill ketea for my adventure?
-wait five minutes-
5. msg astarod Hey! I heard you help novices sometimes, would you help me kill soAndSo. 

Works all the time!


Also, these adventures aren't handouts. These are artefacts that took me 2/3 of a year to get by bashing, city creditsales, friends, and more. It's not supposed to be a reward every month, or even two months, it's a great reward for daily players. 

Like Nicola said, you can drag 5 people to kill one mob and you all get credit. It's great!

Neraeos

Mercer said:

Higher level characters aren't terribly likely to team up with low level characters.

From a higher level perspective, I can by and large say this doesn't apply to any city in Achaea. The help that both high and low level adventurers have gotten when attempting to gain Elemental Lord is a good example of groups pitching in to help.

Mercer

People hang out with their circle of friends.

I sure as heck ain't going to take someone that I don't know well out to hunt a leviathan, unless my adventure target is also a leviathan. Maybe if we are both tasked to kill the same level of monster, it can be like a quid pro quo type of deal, but how likely is that with multiple people?

You can't drag 5 people to kill one mob and all get credit, if you are all tasked with killing different mobs.

[Deleted User]

Mercer said:

People hang out with their circle of friends.

I didn't know Seragorn, Morthif, Jadys, Truax or Austere when I got Water Lord, and they all willingly came to kill the Dreadpilar to help me get it. And I was the only one who needed it. Minifie also helped me with the vertani, and I didn't know him much at all at the time, either. AND he's a city enemy.

When I played Alyxeri, I didn't know Zulah at all and he helped me with a lot of the Air Lord things. Me and Kiet don't exactly get along all that much, and he helped me with some things regarding it as well (also a city enemy).

Statements like this have been proven wrong time and time again in Achaea.

Astarod

Mercer said:

I sure as heck ain't going to take someone that I don't know well out to hunt a leviathan

I mean, lots of people do it all the time.

Sounds like you need to meet some people and ask for help a little more often. Instead of ranting on the free stuff being offered to us, just try doing something different? Help someone else out before yourself. That's how you go places here. 

Talmir

Mercer said:

I sure as heck ain't going to take someone that I don't know well out to hunt a leviathan, unless my adventure target is also a leviathan. Maybe if we are both tasked to kill the same level of monster, it can be like a quid pro quo type of deal, but how likely is that with multiple people?

You can't drag 5 people to kill one mob and all get credit, if you are all tasked with killing different mobs.

So far, since I've come back to being active, I've gotten nothing but help. From people I don't know. Questions answered, people to learn from when I need to, even got a lash with 3 months left on it from @Cooper so I didn't have to use sumac to kill rats until I could afford one.

When I grabbed my first task with the foray, I was told it was going to be a very difficult one to complete but I wasn't told that I was on my own. When I re-rolled and got Maim de Vermiis... it was recommended that I wait until more people were on as that could turn into a fight with Ashtan, but again I wasn't told I was on my own and not once have I been asked what I can do for them in return.

For the dragging 5 people, that sounds like a good reason to have a bashing trip to fill city coffers and collect essence for divine. Make a party, find out what the different targets are, go and work collectively on killing all the targets so people get their tasks done while simultaneously helping your divine and city, plus... here's the real big boost, you can take newbies with you and help them level up some!

Just some food for thought.

Cooper

Mercer said:

I hate to say this but... that isn't going to happen. It is absolutely reasonable to think that people will want to party up to tackle group adventures, but a party of low level characters with no lesson investment won't stand a better chance than one low level character for the majority of mediums and hards. Higher level characters aren't terribly likely to team up with low level characters.

Everybody gets a random adventure. They are very personal. If I am tasked to kill a ketea, and my companion is tasked to sail to Suliel, those are two very different things. It isn't likely that players will be able to find other players with the exact same or compatible adventure who want to team up on a regular basis. For there to be any meaningful payoff for the system, you need to adventure pretty much constantly because 30 points every 3 days is a slow progression before you see a payoff... even slower for 20 or 10.

Before anyone says "But think of the social possibilities of meeting random people by seeking out those with the same adventure!". To that I say, sure... once or twice. But not every three days. By and large, people just don't do that.

Edit: I am glad to know I was wrong about the giftbox being random. That does make it significantly more appealing.

This couldn't be much farther from the truth. Every single city has a plethora of players that are willing to help out younger players.

You're also assuming that the adventures should be able to be completed by everyone, and this isn't true - especially the "hard" adventures.

Another assumption you made is that EVERY adventure is going to require high level help to complete. That is also not true.

So basically you made a bunch of assumptions that weren't true, and are upset about the scenario you've created in your head.

Mercer

Neraeos said:

Mercer said:

Higher level characters aren't terribly likely to team up with low level characters.

From a higher level perspective, I can by and large say this doesn't apply to any city in Achaea. The help that both high and low level adventurers have gotten when attempting to gain Elemental Lord is a good example of groups pitching in to help.

Are those really comparable though?

Helping a citymate achieve something like Elemental Lord is a big, one-time accomplishment. It is tremendously meaningful in and of itself for the player who gets it, and it also strengthens the city as a whole and potentially leads to city favours and the like for those who were being so helpful for their citymates.

A random adventure is 30 points out of 1300 or 2000... the psychology just isn't the same. Adventuring is the new thing right now, but once that newness wears off...

Atalkez

PSA: Any Targ newbie needing help with an adventure they can’t quite handle, hmu. I will pwn the shit out the Mhunna for you.

[Deleted User]

Mercer said:

You realise there are people who help others without expectation of rewards, right? 

If you want something comparable, there's plenty of people who will take lowbies bashing simply to help them get levels. That's not a one-off thing. They don't get rewarded for it. The same principles of harder adventures apply here.

Why must you make me agree with Cooper.

Astarod

Atalkez said:

PSA: Any Targ newbie needing help with an adventure they can’t quite handle, hmu. I will pwn the shit out the Mhunna for you.

I need u to solo ugrach, pls and ty.