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State of Achaea Economy

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    Archaeon said:
    when i make my millions i'm gonna drop 50k on this game and out-artie all you plebs. 
    I'm sure that person is gonna be happy you got them artied out.
    Keorin said:
    The deathcape is essentially necessary for serious hunting these days, and the talisman drop changes landing in the middle of a massive piece imbalance for it has locked it at double the price it used to be.
    Define 'necessary' - outside of maybe Prin and Fissure (possibly catacombs for 'quick clearing') there's a number of classes that bash fine without a cape (if you're otherwise artied). The price also really hasn't changed at all... If you're willing to be patient and get individual pieces, rather than buying it already completed. Completed talismans have always been expensive comparatively.
  • ProficyProficy
    Yeah, so achaea is no where near -pay to win- as everyone claims.... if you want an easier quality of life and things to be easier, than yes...... but coming from someone who has alot, I can tell you people who have alot less can have the exact same effect If not more with the effort.

    I mean realistically that is how everything in life is, should be. If my car needs an oil change, I either learn how to change my oil, or pay someone to do it for me. If you wanna be good at anything here, learn to do it, or pay to have someone help you ( that's not just cash money, can pay people or buy things with in game currency too, being gold).


  • ProficyProficy
    On another subject

    For the record, things are only worth what people are willing to pay for them.

    Why I laugh when people try to sell things worth a nickle for like a quarter.... I usually get accused of lowballing for my offers, but not 2 weeks later, my price is a good offer on what I was tryin to buy. 
  • DochithaDochitha
    Give the best service people want you to give.
    Give the best product people want you to give.
    Pay the highest salaries your staffs.

    And charge the highest price you can while doing so. 

    The world can't work the other way around.
  • KeorinKeorin
    Pyori said:
    The price also really hasn't changed at all... If you're willing to be patient and get individual pieces, rather than buying it already completed. Completed talismans have always been expensive comparatively.
    For high end hunting grounds, having a cape makes a huge difference in how fast/safely you can cure, unless you're, like, super high level, full artied, and are a class that can con spec (or are hunting in dragon).

    As for the price, that's definitely not true. Now that pieces drop in order, meaning that new pieces spawn at even rates, the velvet is permanently stuck at a much lower supply then all the other pieces. Unless there's a hugely improbably influx of refined velvets, there will always be more of the other pieces floating around, unable to be completed. That's upped the price of the entire thing.
  • DochithaDochitha
    Actually the refine mechanism can be used to even out the stuck supply. Will be happy if this is implemented. Not unreasonable change, given the rng and how much to go through with refining. 

    Generally the prices have gone down with refining as well .Now you can buy refined pieces at much lower prices and complete your set.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited December 2018
    Keorin said:

    As for the price, that's definitely not true. Now that pieces drop in order, meaning that new pieces spawn at even rates, the velvet is permanently stuck at a much lower supply then all the other pieces. Unless there's a hugely improbably influx of refined velvets, there will always be more of the other pieces floating around, unable to be completed. That's upped the price of the entire thing.
    It... Is true, though... If you're patient with getting the pieces, you can make you own for ~800-1000cr which has been their going rate since basically forever (for people not lowballing). Buying it pre-completed has always been in the ~1.2-1.5k range. Proficy even sold one recently for 1200.
    Proficy said:
    Yeah, so achaea is no where near -pay to win- as everyone claims...
    If you want power that can't be naturally obtained, then you can buy it. That is the very definition of pay to win. All that needs to be said, really. You can buy everything in Black Desert with silver if you're willing to go full autismo on the marketplace, and camp it for people to list 'premium' shit... Doesn't mean it's not p2w. Someone is still buying that power. This whole "it's pay for convenience!!!" or "it's just pay for QoL!!!" stuff is just p2w under a different name.
    eta for clarity: My definition of p2w doesn't automatically mean buy stuff == win everything versus everyone. That's just ridiculous. It means buy stuff to have a large advantage over people who don't buy those things, which is what Achaea is. Nothing inherently 'wrong' with that, but to say it's not is wrong.


  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    edited December 2018
    Pyori said:
    willing to go full autismo 


    Can we please not go through this again
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • RilinstraRilinstra
    Super easy game to grind through, if that's your thing.

  • JinsunJinsun TN, USA
    The options in Achaea became too much. I don't care what half the arties do. I don't care about half the talismans or cards. I don't really even care about most of the events because it's such a clusterfuck of combo info overridden by the next shiny that it's pretty rare I spend money outside of my membership. I dunno the admin lost me to impulse buys years ago. I've said a million times If I could do a double membership I would and they'd get double the money from me (I don't need double exp boost) and they've missed out on that possible income month after month for years.
    image
  • YgiaYgia
    edited December 2018
    I mean. Pretty much every promotion utilises loot boxes and loot boxes are under investigation in many countries for being dangerously addictive and inciting problem gambling. This is no surprise. I agree there should be more consideration taken into this. That being said, even though I literally don't have money to buy a set of groceries or some last minute presents I still keep buying stockings, so... Hnnmh. 

    I think there's little way of reworking the economy without those promotions. Which is understandable but also kinda sad.
  • DochithaDochitha
    edited December 2018
    I agree with Jinsun about higher level of membership plans, even suggested in the forums before but got fired down... basically any suggest to charge more, no matter the benefits, get shot down forever... business so hard nowadays...
  • CamrothCamroth
    I don't believe warning labels would phase an addictive personality. I do believe they should post contents of loot box type promos directly on the website. More importantly, they should post the odds of getting each item contained within the loot box. Show me the 1 in 1,000,000 I can handle it.
  • TelinusTelinus
    Camroth said:
    I don't believe warning labels would phase an addictive personality. I do believe they should post contents of loot box type promos directly on the website. More importantly, they should post the odds of getting each item contained within the loot box. Show me the 1 in 1,000,000 I can handle it.
    Warning labels don't tend to affect those who are addicted already, though are helpful in curbing other people from the same habits if they haven't become addicted initially.

    It's more that would be the bare minimum of what they could do.

    Adding % chance of winnings per item would be useful, and similar to how they state that fruit machines pay out x % of the time.



    Any viewpoints on this from the management? Also things such as GDPR and IRE news letters/credit card purchases etc. and the chance that purchased gambling objects (see loot boxes - which is what these promotions are) being banned in Europe?

    I'm curious as to the direction that promotions would go if European countries went ahead and banned loot boxes.
  • CaelanCaelan
    Telinus said:
    Warning labels don't tend to affect those who are addicted already, though are helpful in curbing other people from the same habits if they haven't become addicted initially.


    Betting this is the reason there aren't any...

  • DochithaDochitha
    The odds? Trust me, it's better remain unknown...
  • LaodokeLaodoke
    Gambling promos are the absolute best! I don’t think ire misses out on much without having double the elite membership price and perks. As 10 grand Logosmas stockings would be $450 profit for them in just a single purchase. I would never want someone else punished for something I couldn’t do responsibly. I doubt they would want to cut their income drastically and I wouldn’t want them to either. Make a perma opt out button for chars or accounts. But keep it for me please cause it’s my favorite part of the game! Though.. as a side note to people who can’t control their gambling and if it’s taking money you don’t have to spend there is professional help out there sincerely. As much as there is for alcoholism. This post will probably draw backlash. Though it is my opinion as much as your opinion is yours. I will spend money every month on gambling promos and skip the regular promos. Keep them coming!
  • SolnirSolnir
    I'm also curious on management viewpoints regarding the possible increase in "lootbox"-esque bans.
  • OzmatiahOzmatiah
    Andraste said:
    I think that having additional transparency on drop rates is what most games are moving towards these days.
    That would probably just make me go more mad.  I really wanted to get the Pennon from this set, opened a little over 30 caches by my guess, and not a single piece of it.  So that is frustrating especially with a set that has very little else that people want so I don't suspect people will be opening many.

    Other than that, I would agree that many of the items don't have a huge impact, which is why the ones that do drive the existence of those other pieces.  They are not game changing, but when you are like me and have limited time, I love paying for efficiency, or perks that help close the gap that I can't just bash five hours a day.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited December 2018
    If you've observed mobile games since the laws in those countries became a thing... Most companies get away with as little transparency as the laws allow them to, anyway.
    It'd be more like:
    interlocked cache
    --------------------
    5% chance for a piece of 100cr or more value.
    10% chance for a piece of 75cr or more value.
    35% chance for a piece of 50cr or more value.
    50% chance for a piece of 25cr or more value.
    etc... Unlikely they'd list specifics of each piece/set.

  • DochithaDochitha
    Ozmatiah said:
    Andraste said:
    I think that having additional transparency on drop rates is what most games are moving towards these days.
    That would probably just make me go more mad.  I really wanted to get the Pennon from this set, opened a little over 30 caches by my guess, and not a single piece of it.  So that is frustrating especially with a set that has very little else that people want so I don't suspect people will be opening many.

    Other than that, I would agree that many of the items don't have a huge impact, which is why the ones that do drive the existence of those other pieces.  They are not game changing, but when you are like me and have limited time, I love paying for efficiency, or perks that help close the gap that I can't just bash five hours a day.

    Put a budget of 5K credits you may get some...
  • AralayaAralaya
    The gambling is definitely an issue. I wouldn't have even realized this had my mother not had access to my bank account (I'm 18 shut up) but since June, I've spent $500 on achaea. But if I think about it myself I wouldn't have spent more than $100 in my mind. I specifically had to tell her to remove the money from my account for stockings, because if I can spend $500 on just credits, god knows how much I can spend on stockings, especially when money is extremely tight on my end. I don't know how IRE can fix this, I don't know if they can and still maintain their servers and pay employees and shit. The only thing I know is that is bad, and has definitely made my life worse for wear :/


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
  • DridenDriden
    idk about that. Like any company all they did was offer a product. If no one buys it then its a bad product. If people buy it then its a good product. You cant purchase something and then claim temporary insanity. Are you satisfied with your product? Did it do what you bought it to do? Your an adult. If you spend money you dont have then....I mean thats your problem isnt it? Not the companies problem. If you were willing to wait then ten months of the monthly fee at a fraction of the cost would have netted you the same prize. But you couldnt wait. So you have buyers remorse. Thats good you have taken steps to prevent this in the future. I doubt you will make the same mistake twice and have learned or started learning to budget your expenses. Good stuff there. But IRE is in no way responsible for your financial decisions. 

    Now on to the gambling thing. Fair argument I suppose. But wasnt that specifically directed at children. Kids with there parents cards were buying loot boxes an that is a problem. For the same reason we dont allow minors to drink or smoke or gamble. The teenage brain is highly vulnerable to feelings of pleasure and the ability to make decisions is not fully formed at that age. But everyone who plays this game is an adult or close enough that i dont think we fall into that bracket. I am pretty sure on the website you have to be 18 or older to order from them to. If 18 is to young lets raise the age to 21 then. If we as a community dont approve of caches an such then all we have to do is not buy them and IRE will get the message and think of something else. But what we cant buy them then whine that they arent good for us. Or blame IRE for selling them. Want clarification on what the chances of drops are? Fair demand it and dont spend a dollar on them until your demands are met. Think credits are to expensive? Dont buy them till the prices come down. But dont be a hypocrite and buy a product over and over again then say the product is bad. Your vote with your dollar is a shit ton louder than your forum posts. 
    Cooper said:
    This is one of the worst forms of special snowflake RP I've ever seen. Thanks for going to another city to do it!
  • SobriquetSobriquet
    Do you feeling that Gambling firms such as William Hill have zero responsibility for gambling addictions?

    (Party): Mezghar says, "Stop."
  • DridenDriden
    edited December 2018
    Sobriquet said:
    Do you feeling that Gambling firms such as William Hill have zero responsibility for gambling addictions?
    Do they force people to use there service? Are distilleries liable for drunk driving? Are car manufactures liable for automobile accidents? Or in there products being used as weapons? If there being truthful about there product. whats in it. What its used for. how to use it safely then no I wouldnt say they were. But since you cited someone specific I am assuming its a trick questions an I should google it?   

    It's just not possible to protect people from themselves. 
    Cooper said:
    This is one of the worst forms of special snowflake RP I've ever seen. Thanks for going to another city to do it!
  • SobriquetSobriquet
    I would suggest you don't really know how addiction works, but that's not a topic for this thread. Alcohol and gambling firms have been funding addiction awareness programs for years, plus all advertise this by law (At least in th UK). It is absolutely their responsibility to explain the dangers and addictive nature of their products. 




    (Party): Mezghar says, "Stop."
  • DridenDriden
    Sobriquet said:
    I would suggest you don't really know how addiction works, but that's not a topic for this thread. Alcohol and gambling firms have been funding addiction awareness programs for years, plus all advertise this by law (At least in th UK). It is absolutely their responsibility to explain the dangers and addictive nature of their products. 



    ok so if they explain it and some people still get addicted is it there fault? It doesent take genius to understand how addiction works. Personally It comes down to the world view as to most peoples thoughts on this. Do you fundamentally believe individuals are responsible for there own decisions? Or do you believe others are responsible for the actions of others? I mean if you decide to try meth then become a junky who's fault is that? Some people develop and addictions for sex, coffee, mutilation, porn, sugar, sunflower seeds, etc. Who is responsible for that?
    Cooper said:
    This is one of the worst forms of special snowflake RP I've ever seen. Thanks for going to another city to do it!
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