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Artefact Packages/Novice Cost Of Entry

AshmondAshmond Member Posts: 23 ✭✭ - Stalwart
We had a thread about this that got closed with a quote from Tecton in January, it's been a good seven months since this comment.

"Thanks for the feedback here, folks! I just wanted to touch base and let you know that the team has been watching this thread and discussing this."

Putting all the main solutions from that post here, which are the following:

- Allow core skills to be gated around levels, this would mean getting to level 80 would allow Tri-trans, Avoidance and Survival (Bonus allow mini skills to scale like Battlerage)
^ Primary class only (Ignoring multiclass here), this way the No-Brainer packages could be used for something else instead of having to use both of them just to Tri-Trans and maybe one other like Avoidance or Survival.

- Artefact Package 5000 lessons (2.5 skills, or all miniskills), L1 con, L1 sip, L1 regen, L1 bracelet for $250
^ Once per character only

- Put L1 Artifacts behind memento walls that are permanent but can’t be customised/upgraded (or upgraded at l1-l2 difference+2/3rds of level one cost, so upgrading con 1 to 2 would be 866, not 600) would be a great boon for everyone.

- Allow L1s to be obtainable in game via quests. Upgrading to L2 would still be the entire cost of a L2 and or difference+2/3rds of level one cost.

- Bring back a permanent free wheel equivalent. Play for more than an hour a day, grants lessons, experience, credits (bound only) and a low chance of Artifacts (L1s only).

- Iron Elite should make you count as tri-trans in your first class, plus Avoidance and Survival.

Tagging admin: @Sarapis, @Nicola, @Makarois, @Tecton

Potentially not all valid, but just to make it 100% clear here, this is not to try and compete/catch up with top or even mid tier, it's to allow new players to have a basic entry point with regards to lessons, skills and Artifacts (Talking just L1s here, nothing more) without having to spend nearly $1000 to do so. All the above ideas really just include core skills and L1 Artifacts only, if you wanted to upgrade to L2/L3 IRE would still get money, Sailing, Tradeskills, Mining, Multiclass, PVP and all other areas would be the same.

If even a few ideas from the top were done (First point mostly), I would recommend this game to friends and family, until then it will never, ever, ever happen due to the huge cost of entry for basic items and skills.

Bringing this back out in the open, so the admin can respond.
RackhamZekerosTruaxCailinShirszaeKarrenNylianExelethril
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Comments

  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,517 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I feel like the combo arties (lv 1 belt and bracelet, for example) are trying to address this, but it doesn't do a good job of it at all, especially since it doesn't even touch the problem of tritrans/survival/avoidance being absolutely required to play the game at any level. Once they address that particular problem, we'll be on the right track
    UtianimaAshmond
  • RackhamRackham Member Posts: 65 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited August 27
    Im not the guy to balance things, but here's a thought.

    I used to play Materia Magicka, and they had a system where, each day, the important dude of each city would hand out quests that rewarded lessons. 

    Not sure if you'd want all quests to reward lessons, or do the same thing with each city (interesting enemy conflicts?), but with cfs at 12k, and lessons at 6 per cred, I think that's half the problem solved right there.

    I mean, not the starter arties (starties!) but it's a way to get new players involved, and get their important skills up in a way besides grinding gold for the market or spending the money on credit packages just to be relevant 

    Iron elite already gifts 5 lessons a day, maybe have it run on a slightly higher ratio for the effort. Do the one city quest and get like 15 lessons (90 lessons for all 6 cities.)

    *Just re-read my own post and it sounds like alot of work, but I'm just brainstorming*
    Utianima
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,517 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The best solution is often the simplest. There is really no need to be creating complex, convoluted solutions to something that can be fixed with relative ease.
    Utianima
  • RackhamRackham Member Posts: 65 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    I just don't think the problem, or the solution, are simple. Otherwise this wouldn't be yet another post on the same topic. 

    The way I see it, on one hand youve got this pay wall (I don't know how accurate $1k is, but that's been debated to death so I'm gunna leave it alone) before you can be relevant. I don't know about arties (another debate) but focusing and clotting, plus tri trans, plus avoidance.

    On the other hand, you can't just give shit away. This isn't the largest playerbase. Other games can get by on moderately priced cosmetics, or subscriptions alone, because of the player count. I don't have enough stats to argue this too much, but I don't think IRE could afford to keep up if all 300 players only got the iron elite package monthly. (No stats, just an arbitrary number)

    I think this should be talked about alot more.
    If it was as easy as ''guarantee tri-trans, avoidance, and survival at 80" then boom, get it done and problem solved. But I feel like there's more to it than that.

    All of this coming from a fairly low tier, unimportant player too. Like I said, just voicing.
  • DalokDalok Member Posts: 8
    Just chiming in as a returning new player, if things weren't so expensive I'd probably put a bit more money into things. As it stands, I need to drop $100 bucks to trans a single skill and that's turning me off of the idea. I'm being patient and grinding up the gold instead. Maybe allow more no brainer packages or something.
    JiraishinAshmondKresslack
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Maybe it's just me, and I may be jaded..  but there's plenty of ways to earn credits IG.  Hell, I've had a 10cr prize just for reaching HR5 in the Scions for the last 6 RL months and no one has done it because they have to learn basic curing to get HR4 and design/perform a project to get HR5.  I'm pretty against handing people much of anything OOCly if they aren't willing to work for it IG. 

    I understand it sucks to not get tri-trans right away, but we have;
    - regular House sales, open to HR3+,
    - the village has sales regularly,
    - I often award credit prizes for activities. 

    The last one anyone took advantage of (that wasn't a direct sale) was Snok designing a journal which was back in November 2017, and only 2 people submitted anything.  Since February I've been offering credits for novices that aid in raids,  and since at least March I've been offering credits for reaching HR5.  No one has taken me up on any of it since the journal contest.  We do house hunts where novices get a portion of the gold to help them buy credits and supplies - and get 2 people to come along.. I've even offered 50cr to sink certain ships or complete certain bounties.

    I try to make sure the activities span a number of aspects of Achaea so it doesn't just appeal to combatants.  So to me, if people aren't willing to help themselves, the admin shouldn't make it easier for them. Of course, I know this is a very small section of the entire population, but that's my $0.02

    JadysKyrra
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 858 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited August 29
    Caelan said:
    I've even offered 50cr to sink certain ships or complete certain bounties.
    Not gonna be able to do either of those things without prior investment. Seafaring is a lot of credits, for very little return. Or requires dealing with obnoxious people, for the chance at a return.
    And sure there's plenty of ways to earn credits... Just not reliably, or in a feasible amount of time compared to literally any other online game that has a similar system. There's a reason it's been the complaint of countless new players... Because it is, indeed, a problem. Maybe not for you, because you've been playing Caelan for well over a decade and don't really get to see those problems much for yourself.
    People wouldn't be creating these threads if the current system was fine. That's pretty much it.

    RackhamShirszaeAshmondAdrik
  • ProficyProficy Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I remember when I expected things to be given to me too....
    #putinwork
    Ismay
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 858 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Cooper said:

    Not gonna lie, you had me going until that last line.

    UtianimaTvistorAdrik
  • GreysGreys Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 710 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @Pyori ; A basic proficiency in seafaring does not require a lot of credits. Getting all the basic things you need for ship combat requires a total of 11 credits. Aside from the fact there are 5-25 credit ship trades, this is a few seamonster hunting trips to make back. I actually think seafaring has the least barrier to entry for new persons as getting access to a ship is relatively easy.
  • SamediSamedi Member Posts: 3
    (long time IRE player, not a long time Achaea player)


    Cost of entry into what? PK? Being "viable" as a character? Don't get me wrong, a lot of this sounds interesting, but I don't see it as needed. I wouldn't complain about being able to purchase the No Brainers anew every six months or year, though.
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 858 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Greys said:
    @Pyori ; A basic proficiency in seafaring does not require a lot of credits. Getting all the basic things you need for ship combat requires a total of 11 credits. Aside from the fact there are 5-25 credit ship trades, this is a few seamonster hunting trips to make back. I actually think seafaring has the least barrier to entry for new persons as getting access to a ship is relatively easy.
    Good luck defending your ship from the aforementioned "obnoxious people" with that little investment. If you're doing it with others, that means you're splitting the rewards and thus still earning in a painfully slow manner. Even slower than if you maxed Seafaring and did trades solo.

    ShirszaeSamediAshmond
  • AshmondAshmond Member Posts: 23 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited September 4
    Bumping

    Tagging admin: @Sarapis@Nicola@Makarois@Tecton

    Can we at least get feedback on option one, as this is the most important one of all:

    - Allow core skills to be gated around levels, this would mean getting to level 80 would allow Tri-trans, Avoidance and Survival (Bonus allow mini skills to scale like Battlerage)

    ^ Primary class only

    Thanks,
    Ashmond
  • AshmondAshmond Member Posts: 23 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Bumping again, official feedback is required here, re - tri-trans, survival and avoidanace given to primary class at lvl80 without having to shed money just to be able to use class skills and basic of basic survival.

    This whole thread is about new players and novice onboarding/retention. I have everything already proposed above, does not affect me, but it does put new players off this game and I would like to see new players!
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 858 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited September 11
    Ashmond said:

    I'd wager the silence is your feedback.
    eta: This isn't a shot at you, just stating what the admin stance seems to apparently be.

  • DalokDalok Member Posts: 8
    edited September 11
    I'm just concerned about that because, while it must be working now to not be a concern for the developers, I don't think it'll stand in the long run to keep people coming back or interested in the game when so many different things are out there.  Especially at the price point compared to what those other things are at right now, even if AAA games go up to 70 or 80 bucks the starting cost difference is pretty staggering.
    ErwinShirszae
  • NylianNylian Member Posts: 120 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Just throwing out an idea in to the many here, but you could make it so that if you have IRE membership you get an artefact ring for your character(s) that has the L1's built in to it, non-upgradable. Then if you choose not to renew, the ring goes away.

    Benefits IRE. Has a potential to have a better ROI than just buying the L1's, and the person doing it still gets the iron elite bonuses.

    I would like to see something happen too, it's a tough one for IRE to justify, considering the existing playerbase is, at a glance, asking for IRE to make less money.
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 4,538 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    IRE has two choices - make changes, or accept that the playerbase is dwindling at a rapid pace and keep things how they are.

    Closing Midkemia, Imperian f2p, allowing cross mud retirement = they know things are going downhill.

    The problem is that it is pretty impossible to quantify the amount of income that you guys are asking will bring to them. Will it actually draw in new paying customers? Will those customers spend enough to offset the loss of revenue that giving free stuff out loses? Will it cause people to actually spend more?

    Pretty terrifying to be IRE right now! 

    Kresslack
  • NylianNylian Member Posts: 120 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Is the playerbase dwindling though? 
    Seems to me to be around the same amount of people online as there was some seven years ago, if not more.  I wasn't around for it's true hayday, though.

    Closing midkemia was cost driven, as it was explained to us it was due to the additional licensing cost because it wasn't a home grown IRE game, hard to attribute that to a downhill spiral without understanding the numbers behind it.  Creation of retirement was spurred by this closure.

    It is impossible to quantify an immediate return, that's a challenge for many companies, the best we can hope for is something outside the box is done that will attract and retain newer players, and that IRE has the gumption to take that risk.
    Utianima
  • NazihkNazihk Member Posts: 991 @ - Epic Achaean
    Just make characters count as tri-trans+Survival+Evasion when you've got an active Iron Elite subscription. Maybe make it so that it's one character at a time and you can change that character once every RL month.

    At $25 it's easily affordable and within the impulse purchase range of a lot of people, and it doesn't just give the stuff away since the benefit goes away when they stop paying for the subscription. Additionally, with the main skills provided for by the Iron Elite, they'll be more likely to spend the credits on artifacts, and artifacts are addictive. 

    This will also enable established players to alt up, because they'll be able to use their skill boost on an alt since their mains don't need it. And established players who get attached to an alt are going to want to artifact that alt up, because once you've played with artifacts you're not going to want to play without them.


    NylianShirszaeRiellUtianima
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 4,538 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nylian said:
    Is the playerbase dwindling though? 
    Seems to me to be around the same amount of people online as there was some seven years ago, if not more.  I wasn't around for it's true hayday, though.

    Closing midkemia was cost driven, as it was explained to us it was due to the additional licensing cost because it wasn't a home grown IRE game, hard to attribute that to a downhill spiral without understanding the numbers behind it.  Creation of retirement was spurred by this closure.

    It is impossible to quantify an immediate return, that's a challenge for many companies, the best we can hope for is something outside the box is done that will attract and retain newer players, and that IRE has the gumption to take that risk.
    Definitely less people on Achaea than there were 7 years ago, even with the large boost retirement brought. There are also less people playing Imperian, Aetolia, etc. from what those games tell us when they retire and come here.

  • BaijenBaijen Member Posts: 18
    Personally, (and this is only my situation) if artifacts and credits cost less $$$. I would buy them. as it stands forking out $500-$1000 isn't something i want to do

  • NylianNylian Member Posts: 120 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Baijen said:
    Personally, (and this is only my situation) if artifacts and credits cost less $$$. I would buy them. as it stands forking out $500-$1000 isn't something i want to do
    I was the same way for ages until I started to get a taste for PVP. First purchase was a l2 longsword for SnB.  Then I got addicted to the combat and went off the deep end. Maybe not as deep as Proficy, but deep for me! :D
    ErwinUtianima
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