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Elemental Lords and their Skills

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  • MindshellMindshell Posts: 253Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    An addendum on my last comment, I did not realise cheap shot was unavailable. /still on the trek to EL
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Calira said:
    I, for one, am glad that Terran Bury is not a viable kill route. The setup for Fissure is so easy and you can freeze ground to keep people down longer.
    Myself I am taking it as an option against people who just ignore legs and preapplies head/torso. Without bury path, people can stay alive ignoring legs. With bury path, people need to cure leg to burrow above, else they are going to be entombed. Current bury damage isn't outpacing sip/moss/regen. Will be interesting to scale it with shape / number of limbs broken.
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 504Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Earth doesn't need any more tools to deal with those people. All you have to do is punch their torso. If they never apply to it, then they die to calcify/squeeze in 10s or so. If they do apply to it, then they die to calcify head/punch head -> avalanche.
  • SaviraSavira Posts: 8Member
    edited December 2017
    Calira said:
    Earth doesn't need any more tools to deal with those people. All you have to do is punch their torso. If they never apply to it, then they die to calcify/squeeze in 10s or so. If they do apply to it, then they die to calcify head/punch head -> avalanche.
    Maybe just me who've been doing this wrong but... every time I try that "Calcify head, punch head --> avalanch" path with no prior setup people cure calcify pretty much the moment you afflict them, even with double leg prep setup if they static parry torso and prio head over legs they will cure out of the calcify head before it manifest to kill them.
    The bury/entomb could work on some people simply because SvoF for some reason pause when they are forcefully burrowed which I found highly amusing but once they sorted that issue out and actually cure down there it's just a out of jail card for them since bury does so little damage.

    Personally I'd rather see the requirements for Bury changed and the damage increased by some factor like disembowel/dragon bite/bbt etc so it's a viable kill path.
    Dochitha
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,495Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Soooo when certain comets travel past Achaea, do Firelords get to fly or...?
    TysandrMorro
  • SynbiosSynbios Posts: 4,556Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Calira said:
    I, for one, am glad that Terran Bury is not a viable kill route. The setup for Fissure is so easy and you can freeze ground to keep people down longer.
    Wait, frozen ground prevents people from unburrowing?

  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,377Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yes, as does flooding.
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,377Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    All I have to say is, Delphinus must be rolling over in his grave burrow at how rapidly this has been nerfed as an untouchable escape/AFK tactic. :joy:
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
    PenwizeRom
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2017
    Of course if they really ignore legs completely, calcify head repeatedly while hitting torso into either insta is an option. Haven't charted if they cure head and torso alternately as torso breaks, will they survive... Sounds like they do.
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 504Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited December 2017
    Savira said:
    Calira said:
    Earth doesn't need any more tools to deal with those people. All you have to do is punch their torso. If they never apply to it, then they die to calcify/squeeze in 10s or so. If they do apply to it, then they die to calcify head/punch head -> avalanche.
    Maybe just me who've been doing this wrong but... every time I try that "Calcify head, punch head --> avalanch" path with no prior setup people cure calcify pretty much the moment you afflict them, even with double leg prep setup if they static parry torso and prio head over legs they will cure out of the calcify head before it manifest to kill them.
    The prior setup here is punch left leg, punch right leg, and wait a split second if you think they might apply mending before restoration, just due to the way the balances line up. Calcify finishes in ~4.5s, so they basically have to be on salve balance the moment that you calcify them to have a chance at curing it.
    Dochitha said:
    Of course if they really ignore legs completely, calcify head repeatedly while hitting torso into either insta is an option. Haven't charted if they cure head and torso alternately as torso breaks, will they survive... Sounds like they do.
    You're overthinking it - for the Calcify Head path to work, you just need the very slightest bit of salve advantage. This means that if they ever apply restoration to torso or legs, you can kill them. For the Calcify Torso path to work, you just need them to NOT apply to torso ever. These two paths cover each other's weaknesses rather sufficiently; if they apply to torso, you kill them with Calc Head + Punch -> Avalanche. If they don't, then you kill them with Calc Torso + Squeeze. You should never, under any circumstance, be casting Calcify unless you're going in for the kill.
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,495Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ignition
    --------
    * Added TORCH to the skill.

    Torch (Ignition)                              Known: Yes
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Syntax:            MANIFEST TORCH
    Works on/against:  Self
    Details:
    Flare your flames, burning ever brighter(*).

    * Gives yourself the ablaze affliction.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Yay ^^

    DochithaTaryiusRom
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoPosts: 3,002Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    So, I  know I am not terribly familiar with Fire Lord but what exactly is the effect of this? @Asmodron

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • NazihkNazihk Posts: 977Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Fire elementals gain health from burning ticks instead of taking damage, so they want to be on fire.
    Shirszae
  • KeorinKeorin Posts: 537Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    We could already put up firewalls and walk through them, so functionally this just makes it a little less silly to use that feature of the race.
    Asmodron
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,495Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bingo. Ablaze ticks every 10 seconds (can be pretty spammy) but frankly is great as a boost in certain situations. While my Flamewhip does 7% to mobs compared to Gut's 12%, the added benefit of a secondary heal alongside boar is a nice thought.
  • DevranDevran Posts: 548Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    As someone who knows nothing about Elemental Lords aside from the fact that they're VERY COOL, can someone give me a rough outline of how each one differs from the other?

    Are their abilities effected by artifacts? Example, is there a melee one that is boosted by Str? Magic one boosted by Collar/int?

    Generally when new things come out they quickly get 'ranked' against the other, like when the Knight Specializations came through they were quickly put in order of strongest to weakest. Has this happened yet with Elemental Lords?

    How are they impacting cities? I understand it's a personal choice (I could be totally wrong on that as, again, I know nothing since I've been too busy IRL to play) which plane you ally to, but if that's true are there people finding themselves opposed to other citizens while on the planes because of their choice of Element? How is that effecting the normal plane of Achaea, if at all?



  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,495Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2017
    Devran said:
    As someone who knows nothing about Elemental Lords aside from the fact that they're VERY COOL, can someone give me a rough outline of how each one differs from the other?

    Are their abilities effected by artifacts? Example, is there a melee one that is boosted by Str? Magic one boosted by Collar/int?

    Generally when new things come out they quickly get 'ranked' against the other, like when the Knight Specializations came through they were quickly put in order of strongest to weakest. Has this happened yet with Elemental Lords?

    How are they impacting cities? I understand it's a personal choice (I could be totally wrong on that as, again, I know nothing since I've been too busy IRL to play) which plane you ally to, but if that's true are there people finding themselves opposed to other citizens while on the planes because of their choice of Element? How is that effecting the normal plane of Achaea, if at all?




    I'm no combat pro but I can give you a rough rundown

    Earth focuses on limb damage, Fire focuses on damage bursting, Water focuses on aff attrition, Air focuses on pressure buildup for an instant kill.

    No they are not affected by damage enhancement through artifacts (currently).

    So far, as far as I know, Air seems to be taking the crown. This isnt to say the others are bad. Air also has the best utility out of the bunch and a solid kill route which makes it quite desirable.

    In my experience, each city (that was assisting an element) would later find most of its citizens also following that route. That said, as far as I know, no city is forcing its citizens down a specific path. In the beginning, I did find that some people were building almost fanatical commitment to the element they choose to align with. The issue is that each elemental plane army felt like a new city in itself, a new org, and people began to grow attached to them, which caused some issues when another citizen had to kill a loyal of that org for their quest. It seems to have quieted down now.

  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2017
    If you are not a combatant, you may want to assess them from utility or RP pov. Utility wise Air is definitely leading, with free wing, flying and tracking. 

    If you are fighting, all classes are solid. Air is momentum based, is new thing to get used to, not impossible to counter, but is new mechanic. Hitting smoke balance too, the relapses also make them pretty strong and not so hinderable. 

    Haven't fought fire, but heard it is burst damage, and they have no way to keep you in room? Unsure of there's any mechanic that mitigates that. 

    Haven't fought water, but was lucky to get tested on by @Shirszae a little, on demand lethargy, solid ginseng or kelp path, cure either way you still die. Has okay room control. Hydra is great addition. 

    I am Earth, is a solid class. As much as everyone's hate prep class for their unstoppable offense, Earth is doing that very well. Lots of hard hinder to stop momentum. Lots of damage. Can punish salve prio and not watching torso. Has a 2 limb prep kill setup, for an already quick prep class that's very strong. Earth is also scarier than DWB...

    Many sources say their damage are not affected by arties yet. Hunting wise, all are bad, your ordinary lesser class is better. 
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,495Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    on demand Firelord has Blister, which is Hamstring lite. The target can still leap and such out of the room, but has a delay to walking.

    Firelord also has ConflagrantWeave, which is akin to ropes except it also sets the target ablaze. The issue here is that it requires spark to cast (I believe at least level 2 spark) and consumes it, additionally the target writhes out by the time you also recover balance...making it only good for attempting to slow someone down while also delaying your own momentum. There is the 'powered up' version of it..which requires and consumes double the cost but has the benefit of letting you recover balance before the target writhes out...this however, as mentioned, is quite pricey.

    Finally you have little transfixes that...are quite difficult to occur. You have Incandescence, which is deliverance lite, which if the target hits you while it is active then they'll get transfixed. You also have Pyroflare which, when empowered, will transfix a target, however from my testing pyroflare's windup time is quite random, verging from 3 to 5 seconds, additionally if you are in any way hindered during the windup it will fail.


    As for affs, Char gives instant paralysis and clumsiness as well as builds up your spark, quite wonderful really. Flamewhip will give paralysis with each attack should the target be below 75% health.
    Dochitha
  • NazihkNazihk Posts: 977Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Dochitha said:
    Hunting wise, all are bad, your ordinary lesser class is better. 
    Earthlord is pretty good at hunting.

    If you're heavily artifacted then yes, your lesserform class is probably better. If not, then Earthlord is quite possibly better DPS as well as significantly tankier.
  • DevranDevran Posts: 548Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Ugh stop making them all sound awesome.

    @Dochitha's raving about how cool and scary Earth is makes me want to be a golembro.

    Burst damage has always been my favorite kill method on any class so Fire sounds great.

    Air has free wings (helloooooooo wings!) and track (I love track!) and is also ruining people so that makes me want to be a tornado.

    Water doesn't interest me much though, thankfully. Just like pokemon types. Stupid Misty.
  • CaliraCalira Posts: 504Member, Secret Squirrel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Asmodron said:
    So far, as far as I know, Air seems to be taking the crown. This isnt to say the others are bad. Air also has the best utility out of the bunch and a solid kill route which makes it quite desirable.
    Air has a huge novelty factor going for it, and the default serverside curing priorities also give it a huge boon. Once people figure out how to counter it then it won't be nearly as deadly as Earth or Water in 1v1.
    TysandrKrysanthDochitha
  • FarrahFarrah Posts: 1,953Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'd say Earth is best 1v1 atm and Water/Air are best for group combat. Air is also best for quick travel/getting into enemy cities.

    Fire is the all around loser atm, but it'll probably get better with some adjustments.
    TysandrKiet
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,495Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2017
    Calira said:
    Asmodron said:
    So far, as far as I know, Air seems to be taking the crown. This isnt to say the others are bad. Air also has the best utility out of the bunch and a solid kill route which makes it quite desirable.
    Air has a huge novelty factor going for it, and the default serverside curing priorities also give it a huge boon. Once people figure out how to counter it then it won't be nearly as deadly as Earth or Water in 1v1.

    Oh yes, i'm fully confident water is going to be a terrifying foe as people get more accustomed to using it.

    Devran said:

    Water doesn't interest me much though, thankfully. Just like pokemon types. Stupid Misty.

    -.- Misty will always remain the first and true love of Ash. That current french queen can back off
    Tysandr
  • TaryiusTaryius Posts: 413Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Asmodron said:
    As for affs, Char gives instant paralysis and clumsiness as well as builds up your spark, quite wonderful really. Flamewhip will give paralysis with each attack should the target be below 75% health.
    Flamewhip actually gives sensitivity if they are below 75% and sensitivity and paralysis if below 50%.

    The goal of a Fire Lord is to use your various skills (Crucible, brand, latency) to whittle away their fire resistances so you can either burst them down, or grind their health out. Burst/Attrition.

    I feel like Fire Lord is semi-weak for a 1v1 class right now, the time to kill for Fire Lord can vary greatly depending on your opponents health/regen artefacts, how many lessons they have in Thermology and their base Fire resistances. Couple that with a low-ish amount of hinder, the ability to be so easily disengaged from, and many other momentum classes start to outpace you. 

    This is of course personal feeling from someone who is not versed in momentum combat, and I've been very satisfied with Fire Lord in the group setting. (And the flavour is cool af) So take it with a grain of salt.

  • AustereAustere TennesseePosts: 2,191Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2017
    Devran said:

    Water doesn't interest me much though, thankfully. Just like pokemon types. Stupid Misty.
    From a pvp standpoint, Water is amazing.  You're essentially putting together a lego set on another person with the way the aff stacking works.  The lack of paralysis out the door leaves a lot to be be desired vs a momentum class(Majin trashed me as a shaman), but the intricacies are very neato to ponder over, and once you get a little momentum you just dump afflictions on people.  Hydra's lack of control(and really effect, unless they hit it) makes it at best a grief skill, though.  I got yelled at the first/only time I used one :( .  Bring on the crucibles.

    From a non pvp standpoint/utility wise, it feels pretty meh.  At least grooks regen in water.  Instant travel to tree is amazing, but I'm fairly sure everyone got that.  The hunting is definitely very low on my scale of usefulness.  Minimal damage and Colbey wrecked me with runes.  Some cutting resistance would be nice.

    Flavor/Rp wise, it's amazing.  You're a walking river that summons mega denizens, completely outside of your control, to mangle innocent bystanders.  Name one cooler class, I dare you. 
    ShirszaeTasuuElisella
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,377Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Druid can become Hydra and actually do damage with it :joy:
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
    DochithaTelendrieth
  • AsmodronAsmodron Posts: 2,495Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Whoops yep, below 75% for sensitivity and below 50% for it and paralysis.

    I rather like Firelord but I can see why some would  e upset with it. It really is amazing in group fights though.
    Taryius
  • TorinnTorinn Posts: 942Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Can confirm, firelord in groups is pretty awesome.
    Deucalion says, "Torinn is quite nice."
    Taryius
  • SolnirSolnir Posts: 709Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I'm mid-low artifact level and earth lord bashing is easily twice as good as DW bashing.
    Synbios
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