Elemental Lord Combat

Solnir

I'm here to attest that stock prios against Air Lord is a bad idea.

@Krysanth

Armali

That doesn't even make sense.

Puxi

Armali said:

That doesn't even make sense.

What doesn't?

Kythra

Likely that his opponent ran alot to avoid stuns? I mean if he's still parrying torso, you're still going to get hits on his head in. And calcify head is the strongest route out of the torso or head route. I think anyways. 

Krysanth

He meant the receiving end of Air Elemental was a bad idea with stock prios.   I had fun in there with @Solnir and hope to see Earth again!

Farrah

Solnir said:

Tried that Farrah, target just ran a lot to avoid letting stuns get out of hand. So was looking for a parry bypass option.

What Kythra said. It's not the stuns that kill. Maybe you're misunderstanding Earth but you have both a head-break and torso-break kill route. If they static parry one, you can just go straight for the other and they made your life super easy.

If they're going to static parry, they should do so on a leg.

Synbios

Farrah said:

but you have both a head-break and torso-break kill route
If they're going to static parry, they should do so on a leg.

Entomb sobbing quietly in a corner.

Dochitha

Synbios said:

Farrah said:

but you have both a head-break and torso-break kill route
If they're going to static parry, they should do so on a leg.

Entomb sobbing quietly in a corner.

Bury > entomb is currently weird cos I heard you shouldn't sip burrowed, but people can sip and moss while burrowed, completely negating bury damage.

I also think, Torso path is stronger than head path, maybe my head setup is wrong.

Atalkez

Sounds like it is, if torso is working better than head for you. Torso shouldn’t concern people that pay attention to diagnose properly.

Nazihk

Torso set up basically relies on people ignoring their torso damage, imo.

Dochitha

Atalkez said:

Sounds like it is, if torso is working better than head for you. Torso shouldn’t concern people that pay attention to diagnose properly.

I didn't prebreak torso though, entire sequence is 7.5s, my head sequence was longer... I must have done head wrong...

EDIT: I think I got the head now, just the completion is longer cos waiting for calcify, but avalanch at 7.5 is quite the finisher.

Atalkez

Dochitha said:

Atalkez said:

Sounds like it is, if torso is working better than head for you. Torso shouldn’t concern people that pay attention to diagnose properly.

I didn't prebreak torso though, entire sequence is 7.5s, my head sequence was longer... I must have done head wrong...

EDIT: I think I got the head now, just the completion is longer cos waiting for calcify, but avalanch at 7.5 is quite the finisher.

You shouldn’t be able to get a level 2 torso break off a double leg break without a pre-break on torso. The best I got was using arm to push salve apply, which gave me 3 hits to torso. Still only 11/12, so they stand before finish, which isn’t the case with the head prep.

Dochitha

Atalkez said:

Dochitha said:

Atalkez said:

Sounds like it is, if torso is working better than head for you. Torso shouldn’t concern people that pay attention to diagnose properly.

I didn't prebreak torso though, entire sequence is 7.5s, my head sequence was longer... I must have done head wrong...

EDIT: I think I got the head now, just the completion is longer cos waiting for calcify, but avalanch at 7.5 is quite the finisher.

You shouldn’t be able to get a level 2 torso break off a double leg break without a pre-break on torso. The best I got was using arm to push salve apply, which gave me 3 hits to torso. Still only 11/12, so they stand before finish, which isn’t the case with the head prep.

You can, I posted it:
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/A4jM2PbR

Prep torso, left leg, right leg, then
0 break LL, 2.5 CalT break RL, 5.0 break Torso, 7.5 CalT Sqz insta. 

Key is full shape calcify torso together with 2nd leg break, so it goes to T2 after you break torso. No way they can cure that out in time unless they apply to torso on break, or use tumble within 3s. If they tumble, fissure them. But we need bury damage to go up. Now bury damage tickles artied folks, given they can sip/moss/regen down there.

And it's better than the similar on head, which is vulnerable to mending prio:
0 break LL, 2.5 break RL, 5.0 CalH break H, 7.5 Avalanch, 9.35 autodie

Head sequence takes longer to complete, also vulnerable if they mended the legs they will have balance to cure calcifiedhead, which kills the sequence. Hence I prefer torso route.

Atalkez

Looks like that beat his apply by a few milliseconds. I wonder if he was slow at all. I couldn’t get that strat to work earlier. Torso apply after first leg beat me everytime.

Dochitha

Atalkez said:

Looks like that beat his apply by a few milliseconds. I wonder if he was slow at all. I couldn’t get that strat to work earlier. Torso apply after first leg beat me everytime.

Oh yeah, if they apply within 0.35s of calcify, calcify will get cured, else T1 gets cured, and won't get it to T2. From chart, we calcify at 2.5, their salve is back 4.0, is over the window to cure calcify. And if they apply to torso at 4 or 5, it wont heal before our instakill. 

Calira

The squeeze kill is strong as a way to defeat no-apply strategies, which are a reliable counter to the Calcify Head kill

Solnir

Like I said earlier, I'm trash at limb classes, but every time I tried to go head insta it felt like they were curing a level of head break just before I could calcify head. 
It's possible I just wasn't prepping the right way and keeping them off salve balance, but head path felt very hit or miss to me.

ETA: Just wanna include that my testing has been very limited since it's the holiday season and no one is really around at the same time as me that I can test with. So I may just be dumb. It's extremely possible.

Nazihk

They shouldn't have any levels of head break before you calcify head. You calficy head on the same balance that you break it.

1. Prep Head, Leg1, Leg2
2. Break Leg1
3. Break Leg2
4. Calcify head->Break head
5. Avalanche to elevate head from broken to mangled
6. Wait for Calcify to finish and kill them

Savira

Nazihk said:

They shouldn't have any levels of head break before you calcify head. You calficy head on the same balance that you break it.

1. Prep Head, Leg1, Leg2
2. Break Leg1
3. Break Leg2
4. Calcify head->Break head
5. Avalanche to elevate head from broken to mangled
6. Wait for Calcify to finish and kill them

If they prio head over legs this wont work though, or I just messed up more then I thought last night

Armali

If they prio head over legs you fork. That's how these things go.

Asmodron

You are the flame; the flame is you. Let them look upon you and despair.

You cannot contain the convulsions in your stomach any longer and double over, retching violently.
As Yourself gazes upon your primal brilliance, your entire body locks, utterly transfixed by your
incandescent might.



Well shit...

Farrah

Armali said:

If they prio head over legs you fork. That's how these things go.

Not even necessary most of the time though. It's what Calira said. You only really have a problem if they hold the apply. You also may need to wait like a fraction of a second after balance for leg resto in case they prio mending over resto.

There's at least one other thing that's really nice about head compared to torso though. I'm just working out how to punish all prios with it.

Alyxeri

Earth Lord is affected by clumsiness. I mean it seems obvious in hindsight, but at the same time I didn't think it would be given it doesn't have much going for it during its prep.

With a terrible roar Savira whips a colossal fist at your right leg.
The attack of Savira goes wide, her clumsy attempt insufficient to land a solid blow.

Solnir

Savira said:

Nazihk said:

They shouldn't have any levels of head break before you calcify head. You calficy head on the same balance that you break it.

1. Prep Head, Leg1, Leg2
2. Break Leg1
3. Break Leg2
4. Calcify head->Break head
5. Avalanche to elevate head from broken to mangled
6. Wait for Calcify to finish and kill them

If they prio head over legs this wont work though, or I just messed up more then I thought last night

This is the problem I was having. Head prio'd over legs, and a static parry on torso. Could quake/powderise torso for parry bypass, I guess, but having head > legs seems popular/standard. So my choice is to either hope I get lucky on an off salve bal break (not likely with my ping), or slow prep torso with quake.

Not trying to argue, for the record, just trying to get other's ideas.

Vika

@Solnir

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/XdvVoSxB - Hard prio head > legs my PoV

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/DhGDt3MP - @Atalkez prio

Kythra

Actually what's the way around that? That looks like it could potentially be 1 leg into calcify head? Or were you chasing salve balance there, Atalkez? Would arc curare at any point maybe stop that, or would you have to ignore leg breaks and only apply to head? I assume tumbling into wunjo/nairat would of worked there too, preventing avalanche. But lets assume we're not Sentinel or Runewarden here.

Atalkez

Milliseconds, like I said before. It’s a lot like heartseed, in that you need to ignore the 2nd apply to leg for the prio aff (head torso). Also you don’t want to burn a second applying mending.

I’m not sure 100% what to do, as I haven’t fought it and poured over it yet. Definitely wunjo/nairat would have changed that. From that log, the Avalanch->Calcify complete beat salve apply by a very slim margin.

edit: So when the first leg cured, she should have pre-applied to head instead of the 2nd leg apply.

Nazihk

Yeah, but you also botched the setup on that one, too.

You did headbreak -> calcify+head ->avalanch.

If you'd done calcify+headbreak->avalanch it wouldn't have been nearly as iffy.

Solnir

So I tested Nazihk's path above (calcify+headbreak into avalanch) and it still seems kinda iffy to me. Out of three tests, one ended up killing, and in the other two head was cured just before calcify would have killed. When the person tried on me, they weren't getting the insta without avalanching a second time (probably due to not updating prios after updating svof). So, still seems kinda hit or miss, unless I'm just doing it wrong. 

Dochitha

@Solnir:

Head path:
0 break LL, 2.5 Break RL, 5.0 CalH break H, 7.5 Aval, 9.34 they die.
Their possible applies:
0 salve leg, 4 salve leg, 8 salve head, 9.34 die
0 salve leg, 4 mend, 5 salve head, 9 cured calcify, survive.
0 salve leg, 4 preapply head, 8 cured calcify, survive.

Torso path:
0 break LL, 2.5 CalT break RL, 5.0 break T1, 7.0 Cal complete T2, 7.5 calcify squeeze.
Their possible applies:
0 salve leg, 4 salve leg, 7.5 die
0 salve leg, 4 mend, 5 salve leg, 7.5 die.
0 salve leg, 4 preapply torso, 7.5 die

Torso path is hence stronger.

Got a log for you: 
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/OLUJYHTy (just scroll to bottom)