The Elemental (and Yggdrasil) Retrospective!

Draqoom

Tysandr said:

Also, clearly Air wins. I mean, how did most of you not waste time killing rats if you can't worm warp.

Flying.

That's right.







Long live Air!

I walked passed them and laughed when they tried to stop me.

Long live Horkval!

Dunn

I’m an air lord with the leap Artie. 

Long live horkval air elemental lords!

Asmodron

My assumption on why Water has so few people is simply because...Waterlord doesnt really offer anything new or exciting. Most of us have played this game for years and for afflocks..well we've been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Water just doesnt have anything really appealing to it, in comparison to the others (I admit though...that Hydra seems interesting).

I dont mind water's concept of peasants and nobility, in fact it seems kind of cool. The only thing dissuading me from it is that..it seems boring.

Edit: Additionally, yeah early city alignments/support to an element was a factor. When the planes were introduced, we naturally just followed the path we were already taking. I'm sure more diversity will come later.

Kiet

Earth doesn't really offer anything interesting in that sense, either. It's another limb damage class with a finisher. Similarly, fire is just another health pressure class.

Air has an unusual offense, but mostly because of the types of affs it gives.

Water's offense is pretty interesting, imo. I didn't pick it because it's similar to class I already play(ed) a lot, but the beckon, the tsunami, hydra, and what looks to be a really fast offensive route (can't tell without seeing it in action) made me consider it pretty heavily.

As far as utility, yeah. Water has a ton of combat utility, but I guess not that much out of combat other than the leap. Earth has like 0 utility out of combat, too, though, like Farrah said.

Asmodron

Too each their own I suppose. I found the idea of Fire's spark buildup, Air's pressure buildup, and Earth's calcify concepts (Not to mention titan) to be rather fun and interesting concepts. With water, I just see the idea of venom locks that we have grown so familiar with, and finally an instant kill based on them not moving. I admit that Desiccate does seem somewhat interesting and im sure it looks cool.

This isnt to say waterlord is bad. If people love it, then go for it. It seems that most arent though.

Kiet

You can find them interesting or not, of course, but to try and say water's same ol' and fire/earth aren't is misleading imo.

Water is also not a venom-locking class, they're a lot more like occultist and sentinel with a bit of shaman than they are like serpent/apostate. I suspect a lot of people didn't really put together a full picture of water and just glazed over when they saw it involved affs.

Asmodron

Kiet said:

You can find them interesting or not, of course, but to try and say water's same ol' and fire/earth aren't is misleading imo.

Water is also not a venom-locking class, they're a lot more like occultist and sentinel with a bit of shaman than they are like serpent/apostate. I suspect a lot of people didn't really put together a full picture of water and just glazed over when they saw it involved affs.

I suppose the mention of 'using any venom', as well as being able to 'double strike', gives off that feel. It does have a feel for aff classes we have had. I'm definitely no expert on them.

My definition for same old is the way their abilities work. Fire has this interesting spark ammo concept and breaking down someone's fire resistance. Earth, yes is limb damage, but takes it in a very interesting way (Also Titan).

Who knows...Water may come out to be the most effective of the bunch and people may start rushing to it.

Kiet

You can't double venom and venom doesn't even seem to be comboable from when I looked over the ab files.

If Earth is 'interesting' with its limb damage, then water is interesting with its affs, too, is all I'm saying.

Water's also likely to be the 'easiest' (but most tedious) honours line, given no competition

Ahmet

Kiet said:

You can't double venom and venom doesn't even seem to be comboable from when I looked over the ab files.

If Earth is 'interesting' with its limb damage, then water is interesting with its affs, too, is all I'm saying.

Water's also likely to be the 'easiest' (but most tedious) honours line, given no competition

Idk you have to kill a dreadpilar for one of the quests, apparently.

Asmodron

Kiet said:

You can't double venom and venom doesn't even seem to be comboable from when I looked over the ab files.

If Earth is 'interesting' with its limb damage, then water is interesting with its affs, too, is all I'm saying.

Cant double venom but they have several abilities that when fluxed supply the aff pressure needed. Bloodshift perhaps is based on adding the final touches needed.

I can see your point though.

Titan gives a big boost of appeal to Earth. Perhaps Hydra will be quite effective as well?

Telendrieth

I really want to see Hydra. It sounds interesting. It seems like the type of skill that may be difficult to find the "sweet spot" for balance-wise.

Nazihk

Eh.

Earth was always going to have a lot of people. It's tied to a populous faction, which means a lot of them will pick it for RP reasons. It's limb based, which appeals to people who don't like dealing with afflictions and toxins and that jazz(Hi, @Mathilda). It's the physically tankiest, with cutting/blunt resists and 2 more con than any other element.

And, although we didn't find this out until after we already got it, it's also pretty goddamn excellent at bashing, especially if you've got friends who can help you through it while you're still in the 80's. For that reason alone, I expect it to be the most populated elemental type.

Personally, I find the Earth faction sort of boring and I dislike the elemental lord form. Too little group utility and little-to-no personal utility. It's a fantastic welfare Dragonform, but since I have real deal dragonform it just doesn't have a ton of appeal to me, and I'm probably going to switch to something else soonish.

Tahquil

I'm going to stab people with the ice stick.

Draqoom

Asmodron said:

Kiet said:

You can't double venom and venom doesn't even seem to be comboable from when I looked over the ab files.

If Earth is 'interesting' with its limb damage, then water is interesting with its affs, too, is all I'm saying.

Cant double venom but they have several abilities that when fluxed supply the aff pressure needed. Bloodshift perhaps is based on adding the final touches needed.

I can see your point though.

Titan gives a big boost of appeal to Earth. Perhaps Hydra will be quite effective as well?

What are you so interested in Titan for? I'm curious

Asmodron

Draqoom said:

Asmodron said:

Kiet said:

You can't double venom and venom doesn't even seem to be comboable from when I looked over the ab files.

If Earth is 'interesting' with its limb damage, then water is interesting with its affs, too, is all I'm saying.

Cant double venom but they have several abilities that when fluxed supply the aff pressure needed. Bloodshift perhaps is based on adding the final touches needed.

I can see your point though.

Titan gives a big boost of appeal to Earth. Perhaps Hydra will be quite effective as well?

What are you so interested in Titan for? I'm curious

Makarios' description of it seems to be the best answer for it: You get some very powerful team abilities, having probably the best team initiate in the game. Due to the nature of titan you are also probably the scariest lord on your home plane.

Recently we had 4 people jump at one. Tanky doesnt begin to describe it.

Makarios

Water lord will appeal to a very certain kind of player. I don't expect it to be hugely popular, but I do expect it to be the one that has the most impact long term. I'll say when designing these we didn't go into it with a "all lords must be equally appealing" mindset, rather that there should be something for everyone.

Draqoom

Asmodron said:

Draqoom said:

Asmodron said:

Kiet said:

You can't double venom and venom doesn't even seem to be comboable from when I looked over the ab files.

If Earth is 'interesting' with its limb damage, then water is interesting with its affs, too, is all I'm saying.

Cant double venom but they have several abilities that when fluxed supply the aff pressure needed. Bloodshift perhaps is based on adding the final touches needed.

I can see your point though.

Titan gives a big boost of appeal to Earth. Perhaps Hydra will be quite effective as well?

What are you so interested in Titan for? I'm curious

Makarios' description of it seems to be the best answer for it: You get some very powerful team abilities, having probably the best team initiate in the game. Due to the nature of titan you are also probably the scariest lord on your home plane.

Recently we had 4 people jump at one. Tanky doesnt begin to describe it.

You can't damage out a titan, sure. It's only 10 seconds though and while the statements made are true, it's not nearly as awe-inspiring as you might think it is, on any other plane but Earth.

Now, that being said. Come mess with the Earth Plane and watch how nasty a couple of Titans can be

Farrah

Maybe it's because I'm generally an afflicter but Titan doesn't really scare me much. Titans can still be locked and honestly the stun on fade will probably get you killed. Juggernaut will probably be nice though. I'm not sure I agree it's the best initiate in the game though - beckon/litany/mind command into propped totem seem like better ways to initiate, and Alchemist phosphorous is a more guaranteed way to avoid a totem. 

I rate Earth pretty low in teams, though we'll see once we actually have more team fights with it. It's nice for 1v1 though and for bashing, as Nazihk mentioned.

Water and Air are the best for teams, easily imo. As for uniqueness, Water's flux mechanic is unique (you need certain affs already stuck to deliver other affs).

Dunn

I think multiple proppers will become a good play with earth in the mix. Honestly totems kind of suck since nairat got changed to an entangle anyways. I definitely don’t feel the same hesitation to dive a totem that I used to. 

Draqoom

Can we please allow Air Lords to FLY and Earth Lords to BURROW?

Thematically and for the skills it doesn't seem to make much sense that they can't do these things.

@Ahmet @Makarios @Nicola @Ictinus

Puxi

Water Lords should turn into a Leviathan when in the ocean.

Krypton

Air Lord can fly (not with FLY, but AERO DRIFT). It was just a bug that they were falling out of the sky if they used anything else to reach flying-elevation (Prevail, Lightning, etc.).

Draqoom

Puxi said:

Water Lords should turn into a Leviathan when in the ocean.

Water Lord already has innate water walking and water breathing. Those things make sense for the elemental and are part of their setup. Earth can command the ground to dig up whatever is underneath it, hurt whatever is beneath it and kill whatever is beneath it but can't dig down themselves? Air can ascend into the sky via lightning, but won't stay there? Doesn't seem to make sense.

Puxi

Draqoom said:

Puxi said:

Water Lords should turn into a Leviathan when in the ocean.

Water Lord already has innate water walking and water breathing. Those things make sense for the elemental and are part of their setup. Earth can command the ground to dig up whatever is underneath it, hurt whatever is beneath it and kill whatever is beneath it but can't dig down themselves? Air can ascend into the sky via lightning, but won't stay there? Doesn't seem to make sense.

I WANT LEVIATHAN POWERS DAMNIT

Tahquil

Fire should be able to light pipes then?

Torinn

Can fire Lords turn into the sun?

Atalkez

Tahquil said:

Fire should be able to light pipes then?

They should already have this yeah

Aralaya

Fire Lords just actually explode.

Asmodron

We actually do have an ability that does turn us into a shining pillar of light ^^

(Dont hate us Twilight T.T)

Kiet

Draqoom said:

Puxi said:

Water Lords should turn into a Leviathan when in the ocean.

Water Lord already has innate water walking and water breathing. Those things make sense for the elemental and are part of their setup. Earth can command the ground to dig up whatever is underneath it, hurt whatever is beneath it and kill whatever is beneath it but can't dig down themselves? Air can ascend into the sky via lightning, but won't stay there? Doesn't seem to make sense.

Them falling out of air was a bug. They can already fly.