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The ongoing Yggdrasil event

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  • TorinnTorinn
    But there was nothing in upcoming and only a vague "something will happen" 
    Deucalion says, "Torinn is quite nice."
  • AtalkezAtalkez
    Suspension of disbelief is the key here, I believe, at least as far as what UPCOMING shows. Parties don’t have to be spontaneous. Can do a city hunt or something an hour before to get that stuff going, people probably shouldn’t be talking about it on CT or says though.




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • XadenXaden
    Jacen said:
    Melodie said:
    Just use Serenade and the IC month as a basis. That's super simple - everyone knows when Serenade is personally for them, and counting from there isn't hard.

    "In the month of Mayan, one day after Serenade, a sacrifice to the Master will be held."

    Now I know that on Mayan (which is whatever day of the week), an hour past Serenade (so 8pm for me during this time of year), there's an event I want to be at.

    Way, way better than OOC tags.
    Is that "Find the Serenade in Mayan, and the event is one hour after that" or "Find where the day after a Serenade is in Mayan, and that's when the event is"?
    If you have to ask that question then forget playing achaea, you probably shouldn't be doing anything where the barrier to entry is 'capable of abstract thought'.
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • LennLenn
    I've used the Serenade thing. I feel awkward basically trying to describe a purely OOC time in IC terms that everyone else will then have to decrypt and figure out the OOC time I was referring to. I'd still vastly prefer better UPCOMING support for clans and private events.
  • JacenJacen
    So which one is it? I have a guess but I legitimately am not 100% sure.
    image
  • LennLenn
    But dude, what if it's Phaestian now, and my event is three OOC days from now, so I say it's Mayan (I added three!), but the only serenade in Mayan is two OOC days from now, because the serenade I want actually happens to be next Sarapin, and people are gonna think it's a day early, but if I say Sarapin, they'll subtract to find it's four OOC days from now and think it's a day later, and oops, someone along the line forgot that GMT time will be the next day after the serenade, so it really was supposed to be four OOC days from now, my bad.
  • XadenXaden
    So basically, you want someone to idiot proof things for you? Don't like having to actually use your brain that much?
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • MinifieMinifie
    Xaden said:
    So basically, you want someone to idiot proof things for you? Don't like having to actually use your brain that much?
    Anything that makes things clearer and easier to understand is a good thing, don't assume people want to be stupider when clarity is requested.
  • LennLenn
    Okay mister got to level 130 but doesn't seem to know date conversion isn't actually accurate, whatever you say. :)
  • RhivonaRhivona
    Suggested changes to UPCOMING or DATE are better suited to be filed as an IDEA!

    Let's keep this civil, and perhaps it is time to get back to the topic this thread was created for.
  • AntoniusAntonius
    Referring to the Serenade, which is a thin IC veneer over something that is OOC (the change of the day in GMT), in a particular IC month doesn't seem great. You're probably better off saying "One day after the third Serenade from now." That seems unambiguous to me, personally, assuming the other person 1. knows what the Serenade is and when it occurs, and 2. can count to three.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, Florida
    edited December 2017
    Jacen said:
    Melodie said:
    Just use Serenade and the IC month as a basis. That's super simple - everyone knows when Serenade is personally for them, and counting from there isn't hard.

    "In the month of Mayan, one day after Serenade, a sacrifice to the Master will be held."

    Now I know that on Mayan (which is whatever day of the week), an hour past Serenade (so 8pm for me during this time of year), there's an event I want to be at.

    Way, way better than OOC tags.
    Is that "Find the Serenade in Mayan, and the event is one hour after that" or "Find where the day after a Serenade is in Mayan, and that's when the event is"?
    It's the former. 

    Lenn said:
    But dude, what if it's Phaestian now, and my event is three OOC days from now, so I say it's Mayan (I added three!), but the only serenade in Mayan is two OOC days from now, because the serenade I want actually happens to be next Sarapin, and people are gonna think it's a day early, but if I say Sarapin, they'll subtract to find it's four OOC days from now and think it's a day later, and oops, someone along the line forgot that GMT time will be the next day after the serenade, so it really was supposed to be four OOC days from now, my bad.
    Exempting super rare circumstances - a situation I've yet to run into using this system - there's only gonna be one Serenade in any given month. Is it perfect? No. Is it more suitable than using OOC tags? Absolutely.

    I'm definitely all for more accurate systems to be implemented, but until then we should aim to use the best tools we have without having to resort to things that indirectly encourage using blatant OOC things, ICly. Whatever thin veneer Serenade does have, it does at least have a HELP and is generally considered an IC thing, as the Serenade has actually been corrupted during various events.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • CooperCooper
    Lenn said:
    But dude, what if it's Phaestian now, and my event is three OOC days from now, so I say it's Mayan (I added three!), but the only serenade in Mayan is two OOC days from now, because the serenade I want actually happens to be next Sarapin, and people are gonna think it's a day early, but if I say Sarapin, they'll subtract to find it's four OOC days from now and think it's a day later, and oops, someone along the line forgot that GMT time will be the next day after the serenade, so it really was supposed to be four OOC days from now, my bad.
    In this case, DATE would be accurate enough for you to use.

  • JacenJacen
    @Melodie so even though the statement begins with "In the month of Mayan", the event might not actually occur in Mayan?
    image
  • FarrahFarrah
    Yeah, ngl, I would've said the latter option was the only one that makes sense given how it was phrased. For the former, I think you'd have to say something like "one day after the Mayan Serenade." 

    That being said, all of this rarely poses an issue in practice. I never really have a problem planning things around Serenades.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    Date and Serenade together usually is the best option, and leaves very little room for error.

    date 12/10/2017 21:00
    Real world 12/10/2017 at 21:00 hours would be 25th of Mayan, year 758

    The event will be the 25th of Mayan, 758, precisely three days before the Serenade.

    The inaccuracy of DATE is being wildly overstated here, especially for shorter timespans like a few days or a week. If something wild like a timewarp happens (which are pretty rare), issue a correction.
    Huh. Neat.
  • JacenJacen
    Two problems with that. One, in the rare event of a time warp, the IG date given is now incorrect. This is because IG time isn't tightly coupled with IRL time, which is where these problems come from. Admittedly, that's an extremely rare problem, but it could happen.

    The second issue is that just because one can make an unambiguous statement doesn't mean there's nothing wrong. Melodie gave what she thought was an unambiguous statement, and that turned out not to be the case. Are you going to train everyone in how to state IC dates?
    image
  • LennLenn
    edited December 2017
    A mixed option like that is the best approach short of an OOC date (or better yet, an UPCOMING entry), yes. For the record, the inaccuracy with close-ranged dates is not likely due to the IC/OOC time drift, but partially because not everyone knows about that DATE command, and partially because even if they do, the rounding involved means it's not very precise. The issue I have with serenades is that counting is so easy, it leaves room for error, such as when to start counting, etc.

    It's probably common sense, but since we're all giving ideas for how to convey when an event is, if it's possible to remind people via channel or shout, that'll help smooth any possible remaining problems. It might not always be appropriate, though.

    Which brings me to the topic at hand: I don't mind things like market tells flavoured to talk about an UPCOMING (but ultimately OOC) event, because it functions like that reminder. I do find it silly when people roleplay it out more though, but that just gives me more chances to roleplay being totally perplexed at other people.

    An OOC tag per-event would be good though, because not all UPCOMING events are OOC. The 750 year championship certainly wasn't OOC. You can say obviously people wouldn't know something catastrophic is about to happen, but can't agree with that train of logic. Most Achaeans are already psychic about knowing each other's names, titles, citizenship (and even citizen rank!), approximate level of skill and experience, etc. and the ones who roleplay otherwise often come across as a little strange for doing so.
  • TreyTrey
    Jacen said:
    Two problems with that. One, in the rare event of a time warp, the IG date given is now incorrect. This is because IG time isn't tightly coupled with IRL time, which is where these problems come from. Admittedly, that's an extremely rare problem, but it could happen.

    The second issue is that just because one can make an unambiguous statement doesn't mean there's nothing wrong. Melodie gave what she thought was an unambiguous statement, and that turned out not to be the case. Are you going to train everyone in how to state IC dates?
    It must be exhausting not being able to enjoy anything.

  • JacenJacen
    Trey said:
    Jacen said:
    Two problems with that. One, in the rare event of a time warp, the IG date given is now incorrect. This is because IG time isn't tightly coupled with IRL time, which is where these problems come from. Admittedly, that's an extremely rare problem, but it could happen.

    The second issue is that just because one can make an unambiguous statement doesn't mean there's nothing wrong. Melodie gave what she thought was an unambiguous statement, and that turned out not to be the case. Are you going to train everyone in how to state IC dates?
    It must be exhausting not being able to enjoy anything.
    Yeah I've got it pretty rough, being incapable of abstract thought and being exhausted all the time.
    image
  • TeshaTesha
    lol my bad admin

     i'm a rebel

  • ZbacoZbaco
    I think that for any events, be they major or otherwise, it's always good to keep references to the date IC if possible. However, if there's any uncertanity, absolutely throw that real-world date in there.

    Remember, we're here to play a game and have fun, not be total sticklers about every single little thing.

  • TahquilTahquil
    Soon(tm).
  • AegothAegoth
    I'm working on it ;)
  • LennLenn
    For some hopefully constructive criticism about the event itself, I like how all the aquatic rooms were changed to visceral (and even made red on the various maps) to show how messed up Pazuzu's mere presence makes eveything, but I feel like the blood storm itself was dropped a bit.

    After Pazuzu left, there weren't any changes to weather or ambient lines, so it felt like the storm must have stopped when he fled, only for Maklak's release to reveal otherwise. It's a bit late to do anything about this now, but if he ever decides to come back...

    Along the same lines, when the storm broke, it revealed a starless sky, but I can still LOOK at the STARS and see them in weather lines when LOOKing outside, and there are a few ambient messages that include them. I'm not sure if the sky is still supposed to be starless (maybe it's even supposed to be dark with no sunlight during the "day"), but if it is, changing "small" details like this could go a long way in convincing people how messed up the world is right now. :)

    Of course, I have no idea how much work that actually is, so maybe these things were already considered and denied (especially for the blood storms, which didn't last very long IRL).
  • KietKiet
    IDK, a couple of events doing that doesn't make it 'the norm.'

    Even if it is, so what? The world's meant to be dangerous and not just 'IM A RIGHTEOUS PALADIN' level trashy fantasy. Sometimes things go badly, who cares? The story moves a long, so we, as players, are rewarded for participating anyway.

    The issue is more that this is another expression of 'can't lose' mentality. People are so terrified of not being the valiant heroes that win that they just sit around helplessly. Make a decision and stick to it, who cares, OOCly, if it goes right or wrong as long as it's interesting?
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