The biggest release in Achaea's history will be happening

Solnir

Last I did the math (around a year ago?) it was 6-8 million gold to reach legendary if you forged the cheapest descriptors possible, depending on CM prices.

Tahquil

You poor, poor things

Zulah

I spent 800cr to get legendary from learning the skill same day. I was fortunate enough to get the minister of each city to agree to empty their city comm shops for credits though.


I think it would be interesting to see all skills usable on denizens. Due to server side curing npc's could feasibly be coded to implement a full affliction system. 

Ahmet

Zulah said:

I think it would be interesting to see all skills usable on denizens. Due to server side curing npc's could feasibly be coded to implement a full affliction system. 

This is wrong for so many reasons.

Kyrra

I only spent 2k credits from Grandmaster to Legendary

Blujixapug

is this pirate class??

Talamond

IRE partners with your local office supplies store to give subscribers discounts on graph paper.

Coincidentally, the code that sends GMCP room data in Achaea is commented out.

Liatris

PERMADEATH. That would spice things up.

...probably the separation of stats from races.

Hataru

Liatris said:

PERMADEATH. That would spice things up.

...probably the separation of stats from races.

Definitely not the races thing. The current racial system is Achaea's version of separating stats from races. Races used to be one stat build only.  That was the normal for literally more than a decade. The current system, which a lot of newer players have only played under is actually a really great one. Its sensibly done, its as balanced as is reasonable for making sure no one is hardlined into say... troll to be an effective knight class etc. Its definitely not that.

Krypton

They mean you can choose your distribution of 12/12/13/11.

A lot of people still avoid the 11 Con races, when they might otherwise want to be them for RP reasons.

Hataru

To be clear: I wasn't saying that they might not change races again at any point, but changing them a peg further than they already did definitely isn't "biggest release ever" its just sort of a (senseless*) improvement on what was actually a very big change to races.

* Races are fine, people can avoid the 11 con. Races shouldn't all appeal to everyone and some races make not sense as a "choose what you want", like there is no reason for there to be a 15str base stat Siren. There is no RP or dev reason to make races all equilateral in that way.

Kiet

Current system isn't great tbh, some races are still a lot better than others. I don't see a point to having races dictated by pk/bashing reasons.

Pretty much every modern game has moved away from racial choice being more than cosmetic/lore.

People can say 'but the rp is stronger that way' but there's really nothing compelling rp-wise about atavians being the best serpents and literally every non-damage caster class being best as a dwarf.

Kyrra

As a knight class, I’m frustrated that atavians have crap stats but I’ve always sucked it up because of RP reasons. I’ve never once race changed. I dislike that even after buying artefacts, my character is subpar compared to xorans or trolls.

There are atavian denizens that are strong knight archetypes that are really inspiring though. The Arcadian Royal Guard for examples, or the Stormshapers... those guys are two-handed atavians that give me butterflies when they decimate the crap out of someone. That’s what I want to be but it doesn’t seem feasible with what is currently available. 

Kiet

Right, when mhun/atavian knight npcs are extremely strong, it throws out the idea that having player mhun/atavian knights would somehow ruin immersion. If anything, all it does is limit people's RP if they want to be optimal.

Hataru

Eh, to be clear - I'm not saying things couldn't be better.

I'm just saying there's no reason for a troll and a siren to have the same exact available base stats, my comment was really at the "choose your own adventure" thing - not at whether or not things could be improved at all. Not that they couldn't be adjusted a little more and definitely not saying its perfect. Being fine =/= no room for improvement (and my senseless improvement was also directed at the "choose your own adventure" thing, not whether or not there could be tweaking to current system).

Nazihk

Kyrra said:

As a knight class, I’m frustrated that atavians have crap stats but I’ve always sucked it up because of RP reasons. I’ve never once race changed. I dislike that even after buying artefacts, my character is subpar compared to xorans or trolls.

All non-Xorans are inferior to Xorans.

Shirszae

I don't see why a Siren and a Troll could not have the same strength, though. Adventurers are already exceptional by virtue of being adventurers. If an adventurer troll and an adventurer siren have the same stats, its not a comment on how trolls and sirens the world over have the same strength. Its just means that the siren is exceptional (as all adventurers are meant to be, to a point)

Most trolls will still continue to be bulky, intimidating monsters and most sirens will continue to be lissome, beautiful things. All it'd do is not hamper the people who want to break the mold and play a Siren baddass knight or the like.

Hataru

At that point I would say we need a system that allows for taking race AND class into account then, rather than just race. But when you equalize things across like that you get a whole bunch of special snowflakes and mary sue/gary stu types.

Kiet

You can't talk about mary sues/stus when the literal npcs already do that (mhun knights, atavian royal guards, that tall dwarf).

It's also not really that big a deal, people will just make a troll that looks like a lissome elf instead if they can't be hot + strong race.

Taryius

Shirszae said:

I don't see why a Siren and a Troll could not have the same strength, though. Adventurers are already exceptional by virtue of being adventurers. If an adventurer troll and an adventurer siren have the same stats, its not a comment on how trolls and sirens the world over have the same strength. Its just means that the siren is exceptional (as all adventurers are meant to be, to a point)

Most trolls will still continue to be bulky, intimidating monsters and most sirens will continue to be lissome, beautiful things. All it'd do is not hamper the people who want to break the mold and play a Siren baddass knight or the like.

My issue is not that there should'nt be exceptions or that Sirens cant be exceptionally strong knights it is that you will start to get a divide between description and stats. 

Then you start to see stats become more OOC then they are now.

No issue with a strong Siren. Its the lithe, fragile sirens with alabaster skin and sapphire eyes that overwhelm me with an insatiable lust somehow being as strong as a 7 foot, muscular Troll that throws me off.

Kiet

Who cares. People just make hot trolls instead.

Hataru

Disagree. Disagree heartily because the difference is you're talking about whether or not a civilization on their own (Mog, ~cloud lands~) can have their own highly trained guards vs. random siren girl who was raised in random village x being super stronk at age 18 fresh out the portals with no training (thus why I said there is an argument for being able to choose race + class influenced stats). 

Thing is "make a troll that looks like a lissome elf instead if they can't be hot + strong race" RP and acting like a 5'2" siren and a 7'0" troll can/should have the same natural base stats can both be bad (they are).

Taryius

I'm all for any change that makes hot trolls, mmmmm.

Need more hotties like @Titonus around.

Frederich

We have 19-20 year olds attaining dragon, Hataru.

30-40 year old dawnlords that can whoop a 200-300+ year old Tyrannus.

"Special snowflakes" really doesn't fucking matter, because RP wise?  Adventurers are special snowflakes.  We're people with the spark of adventure, or more inclined towards murdering thousands upon thousands of people so we can be a dragon and laze about forever.

Know what race sucks, especially so right now?  Satyr.  Horrible con, okay-ish dex, but not enough dex to make them worthwhile to use as a serpent.  Great strength, but again, horrible-as-hell con (and a Xoran already beats them out).  They get headstomp which is... lol.  It does a good amount of damage, but most prep classes have their own prone finishers.

Satyrs are just bad at everything they do, bar pure str classes (where they slightly excel).

Why does a race, built entirely around fuckin, partying, etc... have HORRIBLE CON?  ffs.

Not to mention Xoran get +Fire Resist and firelash at will, Trolls get +ELEC resist and a stun chance on hit...


Dwarf is one of the better (if not best) races simply because of having a shitton of resists to everything (and those resists being meaningful because those are VERY common damage types).

Shirszae

Taryius said:

Shirszae said:

I don't see why a Siren and a Troll could not have the same strength, though. Adventurers are already exceptional by virtue of being adventurers. If an adventurer troll and an adventurer siren have the same stats, its not a comment on how trolls and sirens the world over have the same strength. Its just means that the siren is exceptional (as all adventurers are meant to be, to a point)

Most trolls will still continue to be bulky, intimidating monsters and most sirens will continue to be lissome, beautiful things. All it'd do is not hamper the people who want to break the mold and play a Siren baddass knight or the like.

My issue is not that there should'nt be exceptions or that Sirens cant be exceptionally strong knights it is that you will start to get a divide between description and stats. 

Then you start to see stats become more OOC then they are now.

No issue with a strong Siren. Its the lithe, fragile sirens with alabaster skin and sapphire eyes that overwhelm me with an insatiable lust somehow being as strong as a 7 foot, muscular Troll that throws me off.

Stats can't get more OOC than they are now because basically no one treats stats as IC anyway. Not in any particularly meaningful way. They are just a widely talked about mechanic, at most. Nor do I believe most people take stats into consideration when writing their description. 

As for a random Siren not being super stronk at 18 year old, the argument is pretty silly and pretty arbitrary. People can have whatever stupid background they want to have. Its not for you to decide whether they somehow can justify being strong or not.

Kiet

Hataru said:

Disagree. Disagree heartily because the difference is you're talking about whether or not a civilization on their own (Mog, ~cloud lands~) can have their own highly trained guards vs. random siren girl who was raised in random village x being super stronk at age 18 fresh out the portals with no training (thus why I said there is an argument for being able to choose race + class influenced stats). 

Thing is "make a troll that looks like a lissome elf instead if they can't be hot + strong race" RP and acting like a 5'2" siren and a 7'0" troll can/should have the same natural base stats can both be bad (they are).

why can npcs be highly trained but every player has to be a random village person tho? nothing stops people from having a background where they palm slammed chronicles of riddick and did every move to work out and thus are now really buff.

if they're both bad, then there's nothing lost by just divorcing stats from how they are--because there'll only ever be one or the other, and one's already happening, so things will be the same at worst.

if you want to tie stats to class somehow instead, fine. But the current system is just pick troll/xoran for every str class, pick atavian for serp, pick siren or grook with a non-grook desc for int damage, and pick dwarf for everything else (maybe horkval if you need leap that badly). I'm not sure how this is particularly rich rp.

Alyxeri

And then there's Mhun. The race nobody wants to be for pretty much any class. Sylvan arguably the only class that can do fine with it because they get +2 con/int for free.

Kiet

Yeah I'm only Mhun out of stubbornness and because walk speed is funny sometimes. It's not optimal for literally anything.

Aralaya

I want to not be atavian so bad but there's so much rp tied to it that it makes it difficult.

I am doomed to be a shitty knight.

Frederich

Almost every race has a spread of...

13 / 12 /12 /11

With the exception being Human with all 12s across the board.

Just forcing stats to be in that 'conforming' set is fine.  Most people will dump their dex to be the 11 with their con and/or int being the 12s (but sometimes the 13 because lol classes that dont scale off stats).

There is literally nothing wrong with divorcing stats from races.  Each race still has it's 'speciality' in terms of what the shit it can do...  It just so happens that there are a lot of underused races, or people playing a race they don't want to ( See: Aegoth the Tsol'aa Grook, if memory serves ).  In the past, before Frederich, I had satyr.  Why did I pick a satyr?  My boyfriend of the time made one, and satyrs are pretty cute in my mind.  It was my first time playing and I had fucking hell playing the game because I chose satyr monk (eventually satyr druid).  I could hardly hunt because i was SO stupidly squishy, and eventually I just stopped playing for a good year or so before coming to play as Frederich.

I chose Dwarf because, honestly?  It does have a rich RP history (that I thankfully got to experience thanks @Faur / @Eril / etc) and all around?  Great stats + great resistances.  And.. dex is mostly a garbage stat for literally everyone but serpent where dex turns into this god stat.  So.. yeah.  I see zero reason for stats to be tied, exclusively, to races.

You can have a smart-ish troll.
You can have a dumb grook.
You can have an amazonian Siren.
You can have a sickly dwarf.

RP should be, ultimately, in the hands of the players, and the mechanics should help facilitate that.