Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 6.2K All Categories
- 3.1K Everything Achaea
- 1.5K North of Thera
- 26 Archives of the Terraformer
- 257 The Matsuhama Arena
- 885 The Golden Dais of Creation
- 299 The Scarlattan Theatre
- 149 The Blank Canvas
- 2K Getting Help
- 412 General Questions
- 258 Quick Class Questions
- 1.3K Tech Support
- 313 Client Help
- 486 Curing Systems and Scripts
- 841 Off-Topic
- 255 The Wander Inn
- 586 The Universal Membrane
- 298 Class Discussions
- 298 Individual Class Sections
- 20 Alchemist
- 9 Apostate
- 30 Blademaster
- 9 Depthswalker
- 14 Druid
- 4 Infernal
- 20 Jester
- 19 Magi
- 34 Monk
- 11 Occultist
- 8 Paladin
- 7 Priest
- 29 Runewarden
- 18 Sentinel
- 26 Serpent
- 20 Shaman
- 9 Sylvan
City RP and Class Questions
Hi All,
I played Achaea ages ago, prior to Aetolia being created. I've been mainly playing Aetolia since then, but I'm completely jaded with it at this point, so I thought I'd start fresh with credits from retirement. I've been lurking on forums for the past week or so, trying to understand what would fit me best from an organization RP and class perspective, but I can't get a read on a few things. So, I'm hoping you can help me. I have about 1k credits to start, more to follow if I get hooked on some random chance promotion.
My priorities: An org with good RP (or a core of good RP and a bunch of people to argue against constantly), and a class with strong PvP possibilities without massive credit investment. I've read all the threads that say Runie/Shaman/Alchemist for low-cost PvP, but they don't really fit what I'm looking for. I don't mind complex classes, and I prefer some mobility.
I could use some thoughts on the following:
- Eleusis, how bad is the infighting, and how snuggly is it? I really like Sentinel, while Druid and Sylvan seem solid. Does the infighting add to the RP value or detract from it? Are any of these classes utter rubbish in PvP without arties? I love metamorphosis, so Druid and Sent are a strong possiblity.
- Mhaldor. I love the Occie class. I spent years as an Indorani on Aetolia, and played a lot as whatever they called them on Imperian. Tarot is awesome. It also feels like the RP in the city has some really interesting facets to it. That said, I don't like being on the side that absolutely dominates, or which supports absolute evil. What's the PK and RP level here?
- Hashan. A little fascinating to me as I could be any class, and Hashan was just created when I stopped playing my rogue priest to go with Aetolia. Is there any decent RP here given that it's not as thematic as the others?
- Jester in Eleusis. Again I love Tarot, I like forestal RP, but this seems like a glass cannon, which I don't like. I hate the balloons part of this class, so maybe I can ignore those skills? Playing a forestal maniac could be fun. Thoughts?
Specific questions/observations:
- Do any of the classes I've mentioned need a lot of arties to be decent?
- What does Skirmishing DRAG do? Does it let you move people around who are massed, and set off traps?
- Sylvan thornrend: it seems like the affliction combos are based on what you propogate? Or, can you use any dual-venom combo? (i.e. is epseth/epteth doable?)
- How much of a pain in the ass are Weatherweaving or Propagation in 1v1?
- It seems like groves are a lot more portable than they used to be, with imbue sunlight? How do bees/wildgrowth/active grove skills stack up? Do you still need to plant qstaff?Jest
- Is there any way to make Jester not a glass cannon? I don't mind squishiness and ignoring their stupid skills like giraffe (unless that skill is core to the play style)
- Bard and BM got a mention in many threads. Are they still solid for any org?
Thanks in advance for the help!
I played Achaea ages ago, prior to Aetolia being created. I've been mainly playing Aetolia since then, but I'm completely jaded with it at this point, so I thought I'd start fresh with credits from retirement. I've been lurking on forums for the past week or so, trying to understand what would fit me best from an organization RP and class perspective, but I can't get a read on a few things. So, I'm hoping you can help me. I have about 1k credits to start, more to follow if I get hooked on some random chance promotion.
My priorities: An org with good RP (or a core of good RP and a bunch of people to argue against constantly), and a class with strong PvP possibilities without massive credit investment. I've read all the threads that say Runie/Shaman/Alchemist for low-cost PvP, but they don't really fit what I'm looking for. I don't mind complex classes, and I prefer some mobility.
I could use some thoughts on the following:
- Eleusis, how bad is the infighting, and how snuggly is it? I really like Sentinel, while Druid and Sylvan seem solid. Does the infighting add to the RP value or detract from it? Are any of these classes utter rubbish in PvP without arties? I love metamorphosis, so Druid and Sent are a strong possiblity.
- Mhaldor. I love the Occie class. I spent years as an Indorani on Aetolia, and played a lot as whatever they called them on Imperian. Tarot is awesome. It also feels like the RP in the city has some really interesting facets to it. That said, I don't like being on the side that absolutely dominates, or which supports absolute evil. What's the PK and RP level here?
- Hashan. A little fascinating to me as I could be any class, and Hashan was just created when I stopped playing my rogue priest to go with Aetolia. Is there any decent RP here given that it's not as thematic as the others?
- Jester in Eleusis. Again I love Tarot, I like forestal RP, but this seems like a glass cannon, which I don't like. I hate the balloons part of this class, so maybe I can ignore those skills? Playing a forestal maniac could be fun. Thoughts?
Specific questions/observations:
- Do any of the classes I've mentioned need a lot of arties to be decent?
- What does Skirmishing DRAG do? Does it let you move people around who are massed, and set off traps?
- Sylvan thornrend: it seems like the affliction combos are based on what you propogate? Or, can you use any dual-venom combo? (i.e. is epseth/epteth doable?)
- How much of a pain in the ass are Weatherweaving or Propagation in 1v1?
- It seems like groves are a lot more portable than they used to be, with imbue sunlight? How do bees/wildgrowth/active grove skills stack up? Do you still need to plant qstaff?Jest
- Is there any way to make Jester not a glass cannon? I don't mind squishiness and ignoring their stupid skills like giraffe (unless that skill is core to the play style)
- Bard and BM got a mention in many threads. Are they still solid for any org?
Thanks in advance for the help!
0
Comments
I can't answer most of your questions, but there does seem to be one key misunderstanding. Occultist is part of the Chaos faction (Ashtan), not the Evil faction (Mhaldor). You can't play an Occultist in Mhaldor.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
You can't be an occultist in Mhaldor. Mhaldor doesn't usually dominate unless during their peak population, being it's one of the smaller cities and teaming up is still common vs Mhaldor for some reason. Mhaldor still does well most of the time, though, it's just not a guaranteed win by any means. I dunno what you mean by 'absolute evil.' It's the city of Evil (which is not what we think of as 'evil' IRL necessarily) so... maybe?
You can't actually be 'any' class in Hashan. You can't be forestal, necro, or devotion classes in Hashan. It's got a few pockets of RPers but last time I played there people were blatantly OOC pretty commonly, too. Might be better now, idk.
As for classes:
The forestal classes do okay unartied, but nowhere near as well as the classic apostate/shaman/alchemist for 0 arties.
Sylvan thornrend uses one venom + 1 class skill aff, can't double venom but most of the affs mirror venoms. It limits what you can combo, though.
I dunno what you mean by pain in the ass. Sylvan's pretty simple, so I assume not at all.
Groves are more on par with any other class's skills now, though still huge on utility.
Re: jester. Arties, I guess? You can con spec pretty well with jester, so it's not really that big a deal. You can also escape most things, but yeah balloons are kind of an integral part of the class, even if giraffe isn't.
Bard and BM are solid classes, though I dunno how well BM does without a band since I've never played one. Bard benefits from artefact rapiers but you should be able to beat most people even with forged.
As far as arty-independent classes with good mobility, you basically have depthswalker, jester, shaman (though shaman's mobility is more restricted).
RW absolutely needs arties to not feel gimped. When you start getting up to mid-top tier, or fight someone who knows the weaknesses of your class, you're gonna fucking wish you had stuff like the arti that lets you fast sketch runes, or the one that lets you sketch on water, or str arties, or an arti weapon, etc.
Shaman/Alchemist/Jester/Sylvan/Druid don't need any arties besides the standard of a ring of flight and a shield of absorption. Jester would benefit from tank arties because it's made of paper and you might find yourself caving to any class that does physical health damage as a consequence.
Occultist generally needs a diadem (crown) and either +int or +con arties to be competitive above the standard noted above.
Sentinel, if I recall, is fairly sturdy overall, but benefits nicely from an arti handaxe.
Propogation + venom, sorry, no dual venoms.
Weatherweaving is scary but manageable when fighting it, mostly because once you leave the room they literally lose their entire offense immediately if you don't choose to return. Generally you don't use Propagation to build affs, you use it to limb damage and the affs are a nice bonus on the side.
All the overpowered skills seem gone, bees/wildgrowth follow you around fine.
Artifacts!
They are solid for every org.
@Antonius and @kiet thanks for the clarification on factions re Mhaldor/Hashan. It seems like I'm misunderstanding factions. Is there a better resource than the wiki and forums to understand? In a perfect world, I'd create a character for each, but I'm just not sure I have time to do that these days.
@kiet it sounds like you're writing off everyone but Mhaldor and Targossas. Are there any other factions that might have potential in your opinion?
@Armali thanks for being specific with your answers, the info about Goves, BM/Bard, and Shaman/Alcy/Jester/Sylvan/Druid is really useful. Would you say that any of these are underplayed compared to the rest of the game?
To answer your question about sides: I played both sides on Aetolia, but I was mainly spirit. If it's relevant I did a bunch of things IC and OOC that meant I held positions of responsibility or influence over RP and skill balance, so I'd like to think I can tough out periods of discomfort in either area. So I guess to some extent I'm looking for a solid foundation in the org I join, rather than a passing annoyance.
Are Sylvan/Druid more powerful at higher levels of combat than Bard or BM? Or are there other classes I've mentioned that I like which would work well, even if I got my factions wrong?
Just to call it out to future responders: No one answered my question about Sentinel drag yet.
Thanks!
I wouldn't personally play in any faction but Mhaldor for RP, and Targossas is the only other faction I'd maybe tolerate. But that's also my personal opinion and not one you have to agree with. Ashtan has a cool group of younger RPers these days, but the city is pretty stagnant and struggling in general. Hashan/Eleusis I mentioned earlier, and Cyrene has okay RP if you just want to like, do cultural events.
As far as what each faction is about, you'd have to ask specific questions if the wiki isn't enough. Mhaldor is about following the seven truths of evil which are basically that sentient life must be made better and stronger through enduring hardships. Hashan is basically Twilight's city, and that's an entirely different thing.
Bard/Sylvan are stronger than druid/bm imo, though druid has the one really powerful cheese tactic (that might not qualify as cheese tbh but idk how long it'll go unnerfed). The difference is minor, though, most of the classes are pretty even.
Drag lets you move someone when they're impaled but I don't remember all the details, sorry!
Few people play Jesters because no one likes Jesters. Alchemists generally are not as represented. You'll find smatterings of the other classes.
I've only played spirit so I'm only familiar with the RP on that side. One thing you'll want to get clear is that very very few people outside of Cyrenians will sit down and long form emote with you. I can run into a shop in Aet and drop a short one or two liner and depending on how they react, it could turn into paragraphs. You'll find people here mostly stick to socials and says. Few people emote outside of snuggly Cyrene.
At the highest levels, I'd rank them as Druid > BM > Sylvan > Bard.
The Druid limb instakill is almost unescapable and druid has a lot of tools to survive up until the point they can execute.
BM scales really well with arties that can rip through people from low to mid-top tier, but there's a few very glaring weaknesses that show up against the most artied of combatants that can leave you really frustrated.
Sylvan has a varied tool kit, but it sort of only does everything mediocre. If you're not knowledgeable about how the class works it can be really frustrating, but if you are, it's semi-trivial to stay alive.
Bard can seem strong on paper, but they have no room hinder in a mostly momentum focused class, which means it's trivial to escape them.
At what level did you fight in Aetolia, and which classes did you enjoy?
@Kiet that's good to know about Mhaldor. I'm not looking for super-long emotes like parts of Aetolia. I could never keep up with that. I guess you could say I'm more interested in consistency within the organization, or the potential for consistency within an organzation.
@Armali I'd like to think I fought at the bottom end of top-tier or the top end of mid-tier. I couldn't consistently win against the absolute best, but I was competitive and wasn't a complete pushover for anyone. I enjoyed Indorani a lot as my main char before he switched to the spirit (Druid) side, and then really liked Lycan when it was a real guild. Earlier in the game when Sentinel had Metamorphosis/Woodlore, I enjoyed the class because of the mobility and traps.
I'm hearing a lot of differing opinions on the forums about the Druid instakill. A number of people saying you need an artie axe/trans weaponry to pull it off?
That said, Druid is becoming more attractive to me as it seems like Imbue Quarterstaff handles a lot of the mobility issues that used to plague the class for Grove, while reclamation is new and novel, and Metamorphosis is a combination of the old mechanics I used to like so much while still having Hydra. I'm just not convinced that it has a viable non-damage kill route.
This gives me the impression you were PKing in an earlier age of Aetolia, when Indorani were non-viable except via lots of cheese (and boy did they do the cheese well), Druids just mauled everything to death in their groves with arties (because they weren't Shamans yet, which just lightninged everything to death in their overgrowth), and Sentinels did likewise plus tricked you into traps. Jesters, Shamans, and Occies all have lots of cheesing potential in that regard, I think. However, you'll find combat less automated than in Aetolia, so if you've disliked the direction combat over there has gone in in general, I think you'll enjoy it a bit more here on that front. If you like Druid, that's also great, though some of my friends find Eleusis in general intolerable and just PK there without any engagement whatsoever with the village.
Overall I like having a consistent route that allows a class to kill against a less skills opponent, decent tankiness, and some mobility. The second two are often a tradeoff, which is fine.
I enjoyed PK as an Indorani in the earlier age of Aetolia mainly because of the mobility/survivability, variety (damage, death tarot, and affliction route), and for the fallback of being able to consistently set up Death Tarot in the right way to take out even people with a lot of arties--if you could survive long enough.
Druid I found frustrating because of the need to get someone into grove to kill and the fact that heavily artifacted people could survive it. I stuck with the guild/class for ages though as I enjoyed the RP challenge of trying to get OOC people to RP and pacifists to fight. Group-wise I Iiked the utility/control in group situations.
Sentinels I enjoyed because of metamorphosis and the ability to push afflictions/limb damage and stay mobile by protecting routes with traps while also trying to get people into them - to some extent an element of cheese maybe? I've always found traps cool. They're a unique mechanic for the class, can restrict people's movement or provide a retreat, ambush people, and provide an offensive route if there's a way to get ahead of people and force movement (in Aetolia Impale/Drag worked to set traps off).
Lycan I enjoyed for completely different reasons: there was an affliction route as well as (at the time) a completely unique route of giving people spleenrip and then bleeding them to death.
Ashtan is figuring itself out, and it's a bit hard since the term "Chaos" has been a catch-all for a lot of ideas over the course of Achaean history. Hashan has amazing potential with the Shadow Court and Wellspring business, but its players (and the leaders they elected) seem to be adamant in maintaining the city's direction-less makeup (read recent news posts for a laugh
You can define tankiness a lot of ways, resilient to damage (physical specifically, usually), or just a general resistance to kill routes because of X, Y, Z. Blademaster, Jester, and Serpent are really the only classes that are explicitly squishy without arties, and ironically are also some of the classes with the best resistance to kill routes because of their abilities. Everybody is more or less resistant to damage to some degree, though they might not be as strong against kill routes.
Mobility can be defined as either 'have to stick in a room' or 'how many movement skills you have'. Only Druid and Sylvan really find it essential to stick in their prepped room, because some of their killing skills require them to be there. Everybody else more less can move with the same tools and at the same rate.
Consistency against less skilled opponents: this one's trickier, and I assume you mean it's built in such a way that arties won't let your enemy tank you indefinitely even if they're brain dead (i.e., old Druids). Certain survival strategies against certain routes aren't viable if you were at low health, which can be implemented, in theory, by somebody 'less skilled' and severely frustrate you. Bard, Blademasters, knights of every variety, and Sylvans can all suffer from this pretty badly in certain cases if they have arties and you don't. Everyone else has something that's not really as artifact dependent, though that's not to say people can't take active measures to frustrate you either. The most consistent routes would be those that are purely prep and require zero momentum to start up, with Druid being a pretty decent example (balanced out by lack of mobility).
--
Alchemist is decently tanky, very mobile, all things considered, and can easily demolish less skilled opponents. It's the really top people in certain classes that will make you want to tear out your hair and pick a different class.
Occultist would be a good fit to all your requirements, but it would need arties to really shine. I personally don't feel it can go up against other momentum classes, but that could just be the Occultist vs. Alchemist match-up.
Sentinel would also be a good fit. I don't believe it requires as many arties and its really hard for me to say how hard it scales to artifacts and how much it needs them, but on paper it doesn't need much and they're absurdly hard to kill played right.
Jesters/Shamans are fun in that they have dolls/puppets, which are pretty unique and allow for all sorts of strategies, most of which are cheesy, and some of which are definitely not and very dangerous. Jester are superbly resistant to kill routes and very slippery and have Tarot, BUT are made out of paper and can die to a stiff breeze. Shamans are a little better damage resistance, but are not as mobile nor have the same sort of defensive tools Jesters do.
Edit:
My further assessment is that Chaos was always meant to be this dark, consume-the-world-and-barf-up-a-new-one (Babelite) ideology, with the happy fun times sprinkles just a cover for the whole thing (Erisian). But certain people took the happy fun times cover as the actual Chaos, and that's where all the mess originated. So now Ashtan Chaos is supposedly just the dark chaosy theme, but it's hard to shake off RL years of happy fun times
Ashtan is suffering for a number of reasons, not least of which is underpopulation brought on, in my opinion, by how long it took for Ashtan's renaissance to happen - a lot of people got tired of waiting and alt'ed out or just plain left. As I said before, people go where people are, so there's less appeal to go to an underpopulated city.
Again, I appreciate the response and the amount of info you provided. It was super helpful.
I'll have to check out Alchemist some more.
If I go Eleusis, Sentinel is definitely the leader (though I'm still not ruling our Druid for some reason). Occie is ahead for Ashtan. I'm not sure what to consider for the other cities yet. Probably depends on flavor at this point.
@torinn @Solnir @Klendathu @Xaden and @Mathilda - thanks for the info/back-and-forth about Ashtan. It sounds like there's potential there, but that a lot is shifting. What are your thoughts on whether the kick it needs can come from gaining a handful of actively involved people, or if the issues are really deep-seated and hard to move?
The dual wielding (cut and blunt) Infernal specs are both really strong for Mhaldor. I feel Apostate is stronger than Priest, though it shares the same weaknesses of not being very good against people with arties who play intelligently and having no prep route.
Basically for those two orgs, the knight factional class is consistent and tanky, marginally less mobile because they have room effects they need to drop, but make up for it with free mounting (so they can almost always use mountjump to leap over stuff as long as they can actually mount in the first place). The momentum/caster faction class for those two orgs are less consistent, probably more tanky, but also stuck with room effects and also not having the free mounting.
And there's nothing wrong with Druid! 95% of the people you fight aren't going to even know how to take advantage of your lack of mobility, and the other 5% you could just bait. It just takes one wrong move before you smash them with a hard execution.
Infernal is in a pretty good place. Solid at pretty much everything.
Sentinel is pretty godly, but I'm not sure if it requires artefact weapons to be, or not. Terrifying in groups.
Druid is a terrible basher but great duelist and pretty strong in groups.
Sylvan is very static but very strong. Probably the best factional hunter and scary in groups.
Paladin SnB is as reliable as it gets, but is a slow prepper. All Paladins are great in groups, all strong bashers.
Priest is a decent duelist (the effectiveness drops pretty hugely as you go up the artefact scale), good hunter, mediocre group class. It has some good abilities but doubling up on priests is weak, and Targ has a ton of them.
Occultist is like Sentinel. Might need more arties than Sentinel to be terrifying, not sure.
Mostly, you can't really go wrong with factional classes. I'd recommend finding the place whose lore attracts you the most and going from there. Achaea's pvp is in a great place atm, so you can make nearly everything work. Just a matter of picking your flavor!
Occie definitely needs arties to perform.
Sadly, no amount of prep can substitute for taking the plunge. When you find the right place, and people you really click with. Just go for it!
City RP:
I loved both Mhaldor and Targossas for the RP. Mhaldor, I love it thematically, my favourite organisation for flavour. it is tricky for someone new to engage in meaningful public RP with others until you rank up but Mhaldorans will approach you privately. The concept of "Evil" is not the same as IRL, it's more Nietzchean, and seemed to to emphasize positive aspects around Power. Any class works, infernals are really good, lots of lore around the class too.
Targossas is very inclusive and open to RPing with novices, there are rituals, lectures, gatherings every day. The prominent members are approachable and engaging.There is a healthy population and Targ will encourage novices to learn and grow and take them on raids and teach combat. They will also teach rituals, lore and tradition and you should be able to find long-form here. Any allowed class works.
Eleusis. I love it because I love the people. I know there was infighting before I joined but the vibe there is positive nd harmonius. I love these people so much and this is why I'm here and not Mhaldor playing a very different sort of character. Both Houses now teach combat. RP-wise, you can definitely find it but you have to look for it. It would be the least satisfying org in terms of what you seem to be looking for RPwise. We do have regular rituals with a bit of short-form emoting. You are allowed to turn CT/HNT off and some people do. Sentinel, Druid, Sylvan are solid classes. Druid is incredible in terms of utility and does not NEED a single artefact. I highly recommend you find Miriew in game and chat with him.
Hashan. I love the underlying concept. The Shadow Court. The detailed Laws. The city and it's architecture/feel. My favourite city for its potential. The Houses divide into physical and metaphysical pursuits and you don't have to stay in one so you get a lot of freedom in how you develop your character. However, sadly, the intriguing concepts don't seem well utilized. Additionally if you choose Hashan as an Occultist without much knowledge about this game, you won't find many answers there. I'd pick Bard, BM, Alchemist for RP classes here (not Serpent)
Ashtan I know the least about, but the city layout and design, and the lore really hype up this chaos thing. Occultist is a good class in itself for RP opprtunities and there are plenty in Ashtan to support it. The smaller population seems solid and friendly. I think a Runewarden would work well here too, RP wise.
Cyrene is great! It has a healthy population. 3 diverse Houses. Amazing combatants (Cyrene doesn't raid but it has excellent duellists and a busy arena). Lots of RP potential. It's not as snuggly as people make out, it just has a big population with a variety of interests. The biggest con for me is the lack of an ideology to rally behind.
Sorry, I kind of wrote, an essay. Hope this helps. Make alts, try things out. I ended up in the place I thought least likely as the class I thought least likely.
It sounds like I'll be making characters for all of the cities, to try and figure out which fits me best.
Class-wise, Occie and Sentinel or Druid seem to be leading for city-specific classes.
I really like variety (and did I mention tarot?) so I'm half tempted to play Jester and just refuse to use the utterly stupid skills (balloons, giraffe, banana peel) given the apparently huge flexibilty. Not sure if I could forgive myself though :P