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PvE Analysis

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  • SobriquetSobriquet
    Because they say it takes the fun out of discovering something as a group of players

    (Party): Mezghar says, "Stop."
  • JovoloJovolo
    I do think there is merit to some data not being immediately available within an ab file, where the players will work out the details and quirks of abilities through testing and experience. 

    However, seeing as the admin do have access to the information re: bashing DPS for each class, they should really take a look sooner rather than later at reducing the disparity between the upper echelons and the lowly peasants. Then there would be no need to request this kind of info. 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    May not be 100% accurate, based on the fact I don't get her health reported but based on Mindshell's post of her having 2160 health...

    L2 mirror / 15 strength.
    Deathblow did 25% (540) @ 2s = 270 dps
    No mirror/ 14 strength
    Deathblow did 21% (453) @ 2s = 226.5 dps
    Shatter (which doesn't scale) does 19% (410)


    Doing 5 deathblow, followed by a shatter/deathblow combo would be:
    (3650/12) = 304dps ± ~5 to account for rounding from not seeing health.
    Without mirror/gauntlets would be:
    (3128/12) = 260.7 dps

    Decent enough, I think, since I only have L1 gauntlets/L2 mirror. Just throwing out a guess based on my own increases from artifacts, would have to get @Penwize to verify... 19str / L3 mirror would probably slap deathblow somewhere around ~30-31% which would put it at around 358 dps (with shatter, about 320 without). Psion is a bit awkward to calculate since transcendence is only every 5th hit.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited October 2019
    Turns out I was right. According to @Archaeon 19str/L3 mirror Psion is 31% (669 #nice). Which means Deathblow is 334.5 dps.
    If you're factoring in shatter every 6th combo it's 369 (nice) dps.
    Still a fair bit behind the top classes, but it's ... Better than it was.
  • AdrikAdrik
    Slaughter (bastardsword)
    1367 dmg, 2.88b (3.20), 474.65 p/s
    Slaughter (warhammer)
    1254 dmg, 2.66b (2.95), 471.43 p/s

    Jesus christ. That's insanely good, compared to like.. monk. Serpent obviously still is 'better' due to faster bal and stuff.. but being able to be super tanky and dish out that much /s is insane. :grimace:

  • MinifieMinifie
    Adrik said:
    Slaughter (bastardsword)
    1367 dmg, 2.88b (3.20), 474.65 p/s
    Slaughter (warhammer)
    1254 dmg, 2.66b (2.95), 471.43 p/s

    Jesus christ. That's insanely good, compared to like.. monk. Serpent obviously still is 'better' due to faster bal and stuff.. but being able to be super tanky and dish out that much /s is insane. :grimace:

    Still gathering samples, but my 2h and serpent clear times are similar. Serpent can still chug laytronite to be the undisputed king, though, but good to see bm arash doing those numbers!
  • MorthifMorthif
    Minifie said:
    Adrik said:
    Slaughter (bastardsword)
    1367 dmg, 2.88b (3.20), 474.65 p/s
    Slaughter (warhammer)
    1254 dmg, 2.66b (2.95), 471.43 p/s

    Jesus christ. That's insanely good, compared to like.. monk. Serpent obviously still is 'better' due to faster bal and stuff.. but being able to be super tanky and dish out that much /s is insane. :grimace:

    Still gathering samples, but my 2h and serpent clear times are similar. Serpent can still chug laytronite to be the undisputed king, though, but good to see bm arash doing those numbers!
    Maya’s and crit paragons? I can’t imagine 2h can keep up with serp with those 3 items 
  • CooperCooper
    Definitely can't. Serpent will still smash everyone else.

  • AegothAegoth
    So what did these changes do, exactly, if there is still no reason to compete as anything other than serpent?
  • MorthifMorthif
    that's an unfair statement. At the peak of credits spent Serp is king but at lower levels there seems to be a lot of play and variety in class choices.
  • AegothAegoth
    How is it an unfair statement? I put just as much $$$ into the game as a serpent, yet they deserve to be undisputed kings of bashing?  Sorry, but that is an absurd thought process. 
  • MorthifMorthif
    for serp 1600cr for lash, useless outside of bashing, and if you have a tfang you can get away with 0/1 dex, for peak bashing you need +3 dex. All your magi arties {collar/sash} effect pve and pvp. And dragon and all 4 elemental classes and a few other classes benefit from them too.
  • KhelKhel
    Solution is obviously to sell a 1600cr arti to buff pve-only damage for other classes.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    Khel said:
    Solution is obviously to sell a 1600cr arti to buff pve-only damage for other classes.
    You take that idea right back to Aetolia, you cretin.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Clear times are mostly the same, serpent still wins, but 2h is still great for areas where prc will always double kill.

    Credits spent to reach peak bashing is still not relevent to whom should be “top”, tankiness too is now wholly irrelevant when you consider that every class at peak-tier is going to trait their main stat. Serpent loses 1 constitution base over the rest, but so do people who want to play Satyr, Tsol’aa or Mhun. The other thing too is if you put it into how much you pay, Bard needs +3 str +3 int lvl 3 rapier level 3 collar, and if you are going full bang you also want a tuning fork. Serpent needs thoths, dex, lash. Bard should be top dog by that standard. That also doesn’t add in that you can trait lucky as snake without losing any major you really want, bard can make good use of sticky stirrups and health inspector.

    Serpent shouldn’t be trash-tier, but it also shouldn’t be best. Cap dex for hunting at 16 for speed, but keep garrote damage scaling for dex, and dex needs to be wholly remade. 
  • AntoniusAntonius
    Int and collar don't affect accentato for bashing, so you don't need int or collar as a Bard. You also don't really need a tuning fork because fully artied Bard doesn't need harmonics 99% of the time.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • MinifieMinifie
    Antonius said:
    Int and collar don't affect accentato for bashing, so you don't need int or collar as a Bard. You also don't really need a tuning fork because fully artied Bard doesn't need harmonics 99% of the time.
    Int is true, that's only for PvP, but collar does affect it last I checked (about a year ago), and unless it was changed after Tecton left it should still be boosted by collar, however, it is based on %damage of stab so str and rapier are the main points of scaling Accentato. Either way, you don't need thoth's for hunting either, so outside of defensive arties serpent needs lash and +3 dexterity to reach the pinnacle, while bard needs the same if collar scaling was removed, and then DWB/C knights need to pay 3200 for their weapons and then str, plus +fury time. Either way, credit cost can be wholly ignored when you consider how much you may have to pay, and time spent for figurine/cullingblade etc etc.
  • CooperCooper
    Int and collar haven't affected bard bashing in a while. Accentato is 25% of your jab.

    Also if you're using harms bashing as a bard you're wasting massive amounts of time.

    Fast speed after killing enemies is a massive bonus, if you aren't using queuing to move after a kill it won't be impactful, but then you're not bashing efficiently.

  • MinifieMinifie
    Cooper said:
    Int and collar haven't affected bard bashing in a while. Accentato is 25% of your jab.

    Also if you're using harms bashing as a bard you're wasting massive amounts of time.

    Fast speed after killing enemies is a massive bonus, if you aren't using queuing to move after a kill it won't be impactful, but then you're not bashing efficiently.
    Once again, Morthif bought up thoth's for combat, so I mentioned other things for combat as well required for other classes to show it's very much irrelevant argument.
  • AdrikAdrik
    If you look at the last Great Hunt (or at least, the one for staff). You can very readily see that basically everyone in the upper division that placed... placed with almost exclusively using Serpent.

    You can also notice that the person that came in first had access to places that no one would harass them on, and could go full-out artied serpent with minerals to optimize and abuse the shit out of serpent's god-tier bashing ability.

    Serpent is stupidly strong. And I am not saying that it needs to be brought down to be in line (though I would adore it)... I would like other classes to be brought up to it's level. Bard has the benefit of shield-breaker for free (preserves balance, dps, and battlerage).

    Sadly. the culling blade also plays a huge factor in bashing dps, due to the double-hit nature of itself. Competitions of hunting, and general investment for 'most optimal hunting' will more-over always be a "Have vs the Have Nots".

    Did you not choose to be a serpent? Well you're gonna have to learn that class. Optimal strat is to buy lash.. and dex boots which is really only used by serpent... I'm just unsure why serpent's allowed to run so rampant after the fact that NUMEROUS GREAT HUNTS have been dominated by them. Only compounded worse by things like auction arties (Old Chenubian Wings), and numerous ways to boost DEX now.
  • TaryiusTaryius
    The XP contest for staff is not the best example to use for that argument because fragments were around, and there is no questionably better class with scaling than serpent. 28 dex serpent will beat everything and everyone.

    Truth is, levelling all the DPS to be exactly the same is never going to happen. Might as well just add a BASH attack in survival, and remove all class-based skills. 

    Serpent scaling past 18 dex probably needs to be looked at. It is interesting that all the equilibrium bashers tend to do worse than everyone else, even with diadem.
  • TahquilTahquil
    edited November 2019
    Sylvan in Viridian
    Str 12 Int 12 Dex 12 Con 13p
    Only trait - Quickwitted
    Worn artefact summary - constitution(3), faster_eq(2), health_regen(2), health_sip(3), intelligence(2), lifevision, magic_damage(3), reserves(3), strength(1), and willpower_regen(1)
    Time from hit to eq regain - 12:19:22.522 to 12:19:24.699
    Damage done 652

    I think I got all the relevant details.
    (Thanks Atalkez!)

  • PauxPaux
    Tahquil said:
    Sylvan in Viridian
    Str 12 Int 12 Dex 12 Con 13p
    Only trait - Quickwitted
    Worn artefact summary - constitution(3), faster_eq(2), health_regen(2), health_sip(3), intelligence(2), lifevision, magic_damage(3), reserves(3), strength(1), and willpower_regen(1)
    Time from hit to eq regain - 12:19:22.522 to 12:19:24.699
    Damage done 652

    I think I got all the relevant details.
    (Thanks Atalkez!)

    @Tahquil what attack is that? And the DPS is 299.49 by your numbers. 


  • TahquilTahquil
    edited November 2019
    Thornrend.

    Does this make Sylvan TR one of the worst now?
  • TaryiusTaryius
    Tahquil said:
    Thornrend.

    Does this make Sylvan TR one of the worst now?
    Hard to say, all the other numbers are based off of maximizing the damage stat. Trait, race, specialisation and +3 stats. 

    But it isn't look that great. I also think the weatherweaving combo is better dps than thornrend, with the +2 int from Viridian form.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    Taryius said:
    Tahquil said:
    Thornrend.

    Does this make Sylvan TR one of the worst now?
    Hard to say, all the other numbers are based off of maximizing the damage stat. Trait, race, specialisation and +3 stats. 

    But it isn't look that great. I also think the weatherweaving combo is better dps than thornrend, with the +2 int from Viridian form.
    Shear/windwhip is within ~5 dps of thornrend. It's about 1.5x slower but it's a built-in raze.
  • PauxPaux
    I thought two-hander pve was already powerful and tanky, but it got a damage buff? Am I missing something?
  • AntoniusAntonius
    edited November 2019
    Paux said:
    I thought two-hander pve was already powerful and tanky, but it got a damage buff? Am I missing something?
    Probably, but I don't know what that is. I was also confused that two-handed got a buff, yet dual blunt didn't. Admittedly I've not tried bashing as dual blunt Knight for a long time.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • EldorathEldorath
    Could someone do one for Druid? I would but I don't have metamorphosis transed.
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