What's going on with the Descent?

Nyderrasethi

I have recently submitted a bug report for it stating it's essentially a sewers with only 1 entrance. That entrance being easily accessible from a heavily fortified position. It is single handedly the best safe haven during raids of any city to date. Sewers require you to enter grate, descent is just a direction..so obviously that was not intended? Are they morphing this into sewers? like, have to type enter descent? Just seems a bit of an oversight to make it the way it is now...

Atalkez

How is it really any different? Enter sewer is the same command requirement that typing down is.

Antidas

Yeah...I honestly don't understand the difference between the Descent and general sewers. Its one command to enter either way. In fact I would hazard a guess that the Descent is actually technically worse, because you can block a "down" exit (into the Descent), but you can't block a sewers entrance.

Sena

You can't follow into sewers if I remember right, and can't tumble or dash or use other movement abilities, can't enter sewers with AF/BW. Are any of those things significant? Also can't squint into sewers, but I doubt that comes up often.

Edit: Can't be yanked/adductioned/beckoned/etc. out of or into sewers, so it's an area boundary you can't be forced across (as easily).

Farrah

It's worse for other reasons too. I can't think of a way it's better.

Cooper

Farrah said:

It's worse for other reasons too. I can't think of a way it's better.

The name is way better. 

Kiet

Sewers have other entrances, which is the single most obvious advantage descent has. Sewers are a lot less safe to hide in.

Farrah

One would generally phase to get into sewers anyway. The descent has more disadvantages than advantages when it comes to safety.

Because of that, I wouldn't at all mind if you had to ENTER DESCENT. Yes plz.

More entrances will come in time, I'm sure. Though, to me, more entrances makes it safer, so...

Kiet

How does more entrances make it safer? You -need- a serpent, mask (and no one paying attention) or blackwinder to get into the descent now. In any other city's sewers, you can just walk in and go around to find them unless they put guards in every single grate, which is both inefficient and easier to bypass than guards in one single chokepoint!

Atalkez

It makes it safe because instead of only having a single entrance, you have more throughout the city. Instead of an entrance being 30 rooms away, it's 5 or whatever.

That said, I don't mind either way. It's not sewers, though, so you can't really expect them to be exactly the same.

Farrah

Having only one entrance to enter/leave the descent makes it less safe because enemies can hold the entrance. Enemies can't block 30 different sewer entrances. You just go to the one they aren't at.

What Mhaldor raid group doesn't have a serpent or necromancer, lol.

Realistically, enemies fleeing to sewers don't die unless they do something really stupid. There's no practical difference in most circumstances.

I guess if someone is afking in sewers and you have no serp or necromancer, you have a shot if it's sewers and not descent. But a non-afk person is safer in sewers, cause they can just enter and exit grates you aren't at. And there are always going to be safer afking spots (temples, ships), so don't see a major issue there either.

Frederich

Aegoth has literally flew into Targossas, landed with metawake and softfocus on, then went D.

You can get in and out of the Descent with ease, and with the most recent raid, you can easily murder everyone hiding in there.

You also can't beckon people into sewers, but you can beckon people into the Descent.

Kiet

Ok you try doing that regularly at stygian grate and tell me how it goes over a large sample size.

Xaden

I mean it's not like we've dug an underground tunnel into Mhaldor...

...yet.

Sobriquet

#outoftheloop.

descent?

Klendathu

I assume it's the new area under Targ from where all the green misty fog was emanating.

Rangor

Cities with doors and indoor rooms blocking entry is ridiculous! Looking at you Targ and Mhaldor!

Ognog

@Sobriquet READNEWS EVENTS 574

Ognog

It is strange that Targossas lacks sewers. It's not like they can just spread it as fertiliser like the Eleusians do. Those rivers must be really polluted. Eleusis should take it up with them as an environmental issue.

Next thing you know they'll be mining the tar sands in the Mhojave and running an oil pipeline through the Dakhota!

Antonius

Rangor said:

Cities with doors and indoor rooms blocking entry is ridiculous! Looking at you Targ and Mhaldor!

Not sure what room(s) you're referring to. As far as I'm aware there are no doors or indoor rooms blocking entry to the majority of Targossas. There was, when it was first released, an indoor room a few north of the city entrance, but that was changed pretty quickly and hasn't been the case for years.

Melodie

There's only two particular instances I can think of for Mhaldor, which is the walkway to the Cathedral (you go inside for a bit before coming back out, especially if you head to the graveyard), and the fortress up top (which is supposed to be a secure area and is out of the way of the rest of the city!)

Sayenna

Ognog said:

It is strange that Targossas lacks sewers.

It's not that strange! If you knew what was 'under Targossas' in the first place; would make it a little hard to have sewers!

Nyderrasethi

There's a few major flaws in it for now:

1) There's no other exits for people to use to infiltrate to punish those hiding within.

2) It's a direction, so Targossas can still use it as a hide-away and beckon those inside into guards outside, if someone were to infiltrate. You can squint down or glance into it during these scenarios which you can't do for sewers.

3) It also allows those helping in defense, without sewers (in survival), to essentially have access to sewers, unlike most cities who would have to split the defense party to use sewers.

------

Pretty sure this just needs to develop more, and I won't have a problem with it if it continues to grow and expand into more of a network of caves like sewers that require a survival skill to enter, that would make sense. Was just hoping for some Divine wisdom that they've got a plan beyond what it's currently being used for.

Atalkez

You would only get beckoned if you were standing adjacent, which why would you? There are several rooms there, you're not stuck in one room.

Add more exits, that's fine. All that does is help us anyway.

Edit: The event isn't even resolved yet, can we stop bitching about some phantom fringe situation please. Sewers are a near non factor in 99% situations, this is really no different.

Farrah

I imagine it'll have more exits eventually, like I said (as that's what we want). But the fact that it's "different" for the time being is fine. There are definitely disadvantages that come with those differences, along with any advantage, and the number of people who die to city enemies in actual sewers is already extremely slim.

I think you're overly concerned with the fact that it's not exactly the same as sewers and not recognizing the overall insignificance of that. Unique is cool.

Melodie said:

There's only two particular instances I can think of for Mhaldor, which is the walkway to the Cathedral (you go inside for a bit before coming back out, especially if you head to the graveyard), and the fortress up top (which is supposed to be a secure area and is out of the way of the rest of the city!)

And your entire lower city. That's the big one.

Antonius said:

Rangor said:

Cities with doors and indoor rooms blocking entry is ridiculous! Looking at you Targ and Mhaldor!

Not sure what room(s) you're referring to. As far as I'm aware there are no doors or indoor rooms blocking entry to the majority of Targossas. There was, when it was first released, an indoor room a few north of the city entrance, but that was changed pretty quickly and hasn't been the case for years.

If you try to autowalk you'll probably get taken the wrong direction and hit the indoor room. If you go the right way, there aren't indoor rooms blocking any significant portions of Targ.

Atalkez

Melodie said:

There's only two particular instances I can think of for Mhaldor, which is the walkway to the Cathedral (you go inside for a bit before coming back out, especially if you head to the graveyard), and the fortress up top (which is supposed to be a secure area and is out of the way of the rest of the city!)

I don't think you can get to the lower area of the city near the arena without going indoors, which has a guard stack there obv. Correct me if wrong please!

Melodie

Well the entire lower circle is indoors. The quote mentioned "doors and indoor rooms blocking entry". Which yeah, there are doors down to there, but no guards at said doors, and the whole of it is inside, so that's why I didn't mention it! 

Atalkez

Melodie said:

Well the entire lower circle is indoors. The quote mentioned "doors and indoor rooms blocking entry". Which yeah, there are doors down to there, but no guards at said doors, and the whole of it is inside, so that's why I didn't mention it! 

But it's chokepoint is an indoor room blocking entry, with guards on it too.

Melodie

Can't say I've ever seen that area used in a raid. Only real recent have we even ever been down there. But I mean, sure,  I suppose.

Antonius

I don't think anything needs to change, because every city has their own unique points and advantages, but "I've never seen a raid there" isn't exactly a counterpoint to the claim that it's (too) easy to restrict access to that section of the city.

Melodie

Well, I mean, we had two tanks blown down there recently - clearly, it's not impossible. In fact, the only guards down there are the ones in the arena.

I think the only reason people down go down there more often is that it's just inside and people love their wings.

Anyway, I'm not trying to argue it either way, it was a random comment in response to Rangor's, not me trying to justify anything.