New Player: Priest vs Runewarden vs Other

Ameroth

Been looking at all the various classes and two seem particularly interesting to me, priest & runewarden.

I know from other IREs that choosing a class is a pretty major deal and with so much investment etc I'd want to get it right first time.

I like the sound of Runewarden due to high tankiness, less reliance on artifacts, and overall straightforwardness however it seems they lack an affliction based instant kill? Am I right to think disembowel is damage based depending on the damage to body parts?

This is the one thing that I find a bit off-putting as I've always found having a purely affliction based kill to be a pretty major asset.

The other class that sounds interesting to me is priest, but I really don't have much of an idea of what artifacts they need if any, and how tanky they are in general. Or whether they are even any good at PvP. I did wonder about how easy it is to kill the angel entity, because I know in Midkemia for some ent based classes it was pretty easy to just crit-shot the ent and uh gg wp.

Due to the retirement mechanic it makes sense to shift all my retirement credits to a single account on Achaea and your character can only be 30 days old so it doesn't really give you a chance to fully explore before you make the choice. So I want to be sure I'm picking something that's right for me.

I know there are a lot of people on here with loads of experience so it'd be good to hear your thoughts.

I'll have enough credits to be able to trans out all the class skills, general skills and mini-skills so that should be good.

I'll probably invest in a couple artifacts eventually but don't want to play a class where I need a boatload right off the bat.

What I'm looking for is:

A class that shines at 1v1 PvP with low investment.
Reliable kill conditions, I'm not a fan of trick type combat myself.
PvE is not a major concern but preferably not be crap at it.
Enjoy roleplaying so if it's one of the classes that require a specific faction that's cool.

I've always found group combat so complicated with so many combos that nearly every class has something to offer even if it's not been thought of yet in IREs so if it's something that's traditionally seen as "weak" for groups I don't mind.

I know there are always flavor of the month classes that are strong right now, but not really interested in that, more where the class is over time.

I'd also be interested to hear what you think is the best race to go with that class, will probably be rolling a new character based on the feedback here.

Ameroth

Forgot to add, multiple kill paths are cool!

Antonius

Depending on which specific aspect of Runewarden drew you to it, Paladin may be a suitable alternative. It shares Weaponmastery and Chivalry, and has Devotion instead of Runelore. It doesn't have quite the same damage reduction (for PvP, at least) since it doesn't benefit from Algiz, but it does have an active ability (Hands) to restore health that can make up for that in a lot of situations. Added benefit is that it has Damnation (in Devotion, but Paladin only) as an affliction-based instant kill. You would be limited in city choice to Targossas, though.

Kenway

SnB Runie or Paladin both sound like they'd be up your alley

Ameroth

Checking out Paladin sounds cool, does anyone mind explaining how damnation works?

Any thoughts on priest or depthswalker?

Antonius

Ameroth said:

Checking out Paladin sounds cool, does anyone mind explaining how damnation works?

Any thoughts on priest or depthswalker?

Damnation requires damaged head (dealt by hitting the head multiple times) and hellsight (cured by smoking valerian), so you generally need to also (at least temporarily) stick asthma to prevent smoking.

Torinn

I love priest and have played it constantly since I made my character. It is an affliction based class centered around draining Mana. Once Mana gets low enough, poof instant kill (normally 50% Mana is the threshold but it can be higher). Lots of people are good at it with few (if any) arties but it is pretty complicated and takes practice for sure. Lower end in the raw damage spectrum but plenty tanky, especially with being able to cure your own afflictions through abilities and healing your own health. Also locked to Targossas. Lots of utility abilities too, like the ability to find people's location. Slower for hunting but I love priest.

Dochitha

Can consider shaman. Low PvP investment. Can spec con hence tankier. AFF based kill, damage burst with inflame, or using vodun. Multiple kill paths. Steady and strong over time, very strong in the right hands. PvE with int spec and fully artied is probably the 2nd best hunting class after serpent. Can RP cos it is shaman. 

Next is alchemist. Can con spec. Multiple kill paths. Lots of creativity with different homours and homunculus combination. Not to mention formulation. It's aff based momentum class. Hunting is average but has very good hunting utility in formulation and battlerage. Also has a skill to increase crit chance. 

Bard is a good choice too. But will require artefacts to be enjoyable. Lock and damage path. Fully artied Hunting is just behind shaman. If you like singing could RP too?

Farrah

Shining with low investment:

Apostate, Depthswalker, and Shaman are the first that come to mind. But that doesn't mean that other classes can't. It's just harder to tell because there are artefacts for most classes that at least might make a huge difference, while those three aren't boosted offensively by artefacts much and can also con spec to not require as much in terms of defensive artefacts.

Reliable kills:

It's really hard to say because most classes have pretty reliable kills. I think the biggest aggravation in this regard tends to be when you're a class that has no prep path and you're being slow prepped. Not so much an issue of relying on "tricks", but you might get thwarted by reliance on momentum.

I'll say Depthswalker, Magi, Monk, Paladin, Runewarden, Infernal, and Shaman all seem very reliable to me.

Of those, Paladin has two kill paths, one is affliction oriented, the other damage.

Shaman has tons of kill paths - can't really place a number - ranging from afflictions into damage, afflictions into an instakill, and afflictions into locks. The main issue with shaman is do you want a class that's -that- complex or not. Not everyone does. A lot of people find fashioning boring, too. And I don't like swiftcurse (it's a one second attack speed and very precision-based, so depending on how much automation you plan to use, it may or may not be what you want).

Infernal is mostly good for the vivisect kill, a salve-affliction based kill. It's most reliable as dual blunt spec, where you also have a pulp kill, another affliction kill based on limb breaks.

Magi has two kill paths, one affliction, one damage, all salve affliction and limb break based.

Runewarden is really just damage/limb breaks.

Monk has two kill paths, affliction kill (mind scythe) or damage. Always limb break based though.

Depthswalker can kill with damage or a mana instakill. It can also do various affliction locks.

Alchemist, Apostate, Priest, and Serpent are all very reliable if your opponent isn't slow prepping. Potentially very annoying if they are.

Occultist seems reliable even against slow prep, but the one thing that sticks out to me for Occultist is the fact that their kill can be negated by rubbing a lifestone. Lifestones aren't something that's out there in unlimited supply. It's a "rare" item, but lots of people have at least some of them on them, and if they choose to use them, it's a pretty easy kill deny. Note that people don't use them often, though.

Bard is reliable against basically everything but monk. A lot of people don't like using it properly though because you have to break limbs, afflict, and appropriately change tunesmiths at the same time to really be able to kill everyone. Killing monk as a bard is really annoying.

Blademaster is probably in the reliable category, but not enough people play the class for me to know for sure. Nobody really threatens me as one.

Druid seems reliable to me, if you have an artefact axe, but nobody plays it. Limited in number of different kill routes. And not sure how it does without the axe.

Jester. Who knows. Nobody plays it. Also more of a trick class.

Sentinel. Who knows. Nobody ever tries anything but one kill route (petrify) and it's easy to stop if you're not a momentum class. It does have other kill routes, though. I just never see them used.

Sylvan. Same. Nobody really plays it. Likely has unlocked potential.

Ryzeth

Druid doesn't need an artifact to get off their insta.

Their insta is comboable.

Dochitha

Depthswalker can kill with damage or a mana instakill. It can also do various affliction locks.
Alchemist, Apostate, Priest, and Serpent are all very reliable if your opponent isn't slow prepping. Potentially very annoying if they are.

@Farrah How is DW not getting the same problem facing slow prep as Alchie, Apostates & co?

Kenway

Dochitha said:

Depthswalker can kill with damage or a mana instakill. It can also do various affliction locks.
Alchemist, Apostate, Priest, and Serpent are all very reliable if your opponent isn't slow prepping. Potentially very annoying if they are.

@Farrah How is DW not getting the same problem facing slow prep as Alchie, Apostates & co?

On top of distort for room hinder they have preempt which is basically a built in auto-follow so long as the target doesn't fly/swing/land. Plus they can get your shadow which gives them the potential for burst damage or drain. Basically can momentum > shadow for a checkpoint of sorts > momentum harder. Kinda like 2h using a leg break to basically prep for momentum burst with upset/overhand.

Farrah

Ryzeth said:

Druid doesn't need an artifact to get off their insta.

Their insta is comboable.

Have you played the class? (I haven't). What I've heard from actual druids is that you do, and the axe setup uses the comboable nature of the insta as is. You need to get three breaks before the first is cured, which requires < 2 second balance.

Axe, class bal break, axe, axe/insta.

Dochitha said:

Depthswalker can kill with damage or a mana instakill. It can also do various affliction locks.
Alchemist, Apostate, Priest, and Serpent are all very reliable if your opponent isn't slow prepping. Potentially very annoying if they are.

@Farrah How is DW not getting the same problem facing slow prep as Alchie, Apostates & co?

Mostly the Shadow like Kenway said. They also have Degenerate for semi-prep. And they, like Occultist, seem very formidable against shield.

Ameroth

Thanks everyone for the really detailed responses, all your information has been super helpful.

I think having done some more reading of the forums and a bit of investigation combined with your awesome feedback and I think I'm gonna go for Paladin

Prythe

Ryzeth said:

Druid doesn't need an artifact to get off their insta.

Their insta is comboable.

Maul. Maul. Maul. Incinerate.

Oh, how I miss you.

Mathilda

Druid has 3 kill paths: pound, incinerate, and reclaim.

Pound is a damage condition. It is almost exactly like Dragon Bite and those sort of kills.

Incinerate is also a damage condition, and is a 'true' instakill at below 50% health, iirc.

Reclaim requires 4 resto-broken limbs, and is a channeled insta. It's somewhat similar to Dragon Devour.

AFAIK, the damage kills obviously benefit a lot from artifacts (knuckles, etc.) but don't necessarily require them. Reclaim, however, does require an artifact to be fast enough to pull off. 

Sarathai

The Reclamation kill (Embrace) is possible without an artifact handaxe, from what I remember of the last time it was experimented with. But against somebody who recognises what you're trying, it shouldn't work.

Ryzeth

Farrah said:
Have you played the class? (I haven't).

Just going off of what Makarios told me when we were discussing it. He's the one who said artifacts weren't necessary, let alone using weaponry at all. And a failed reclaim is still going to put them in a position to die to ridiculous follow-up damage instead. People really underestimate the burst damage a Druid can do.

Ameroth

Final thoughts:

Having realised I had slightly more retirement credits than I thought and seeing the efficiency of buying lessons direct from the website, I am better off buying artefacts with them.

I have read through all the runewarden ab files and am really impressed with their damage mitigation.

Looking at artifacts it seems that 2h spec gives the best value using a level 2 bastard for pvp and pve.

I guess my question is am I going to be better off rolling a xoran,  strength speccing, getting artefact 2h and +3 strength gauntlets and being able to hit like a truck. Then relying on runewardens  built in tankiness to make up for lower con and lack of defensive arties. Getting loads of bang for my buck?

I can't afford gauntlets and two level 3 scimitars, will I regret not going DwC later on?

I don't like the lack of an aff-insta kill as I can see taking on the games "heavies" relying on damage might be a bad idea. Or is it supremely arrogant of me to even think about that at this stage as I will be too inept to use things like damnation anyway?

Sorry to keep asking questions but I gathered all my credits over years and years of playing Midkemia and I don't want to blow them badly lol.

Calira

Farrah said:

Jester. Who knows. Nobody plays it. Also more of a trick class.

Jester is borderline impossible to survive if done right and not artifact reliant at all, but extremely slow. And if you don't like Swiftcurse, then you'll hate Juggling, since it's even more extreme. It's also among, if not the, most complex classes in the game

Atalkez

I think her point is that the most potent paths the class has are tricks in that you have to play mind games with your opponent. Jester is pretty fun

Farrah

Calira said:

Farrah said:

Jester. Who knows. Nobody plays it. Also more of a trick class.

Jester is borderline impossible to survive if done right and not artifact reliant at all, but extremely slow. And if you don't like Swiftcurse, then you'll hate Juggling, since it's even more extreme. It's also among, if not the, most complex classes in the game

A lot of people say that, and it may theoretically be true, but no one's actually been scary as one since mangle nerf ages ago. A lot of untapped potential. Also a lot of potential for nerfs if used properly because it hasn't really been in the spotlight for so long.

Also super boring looking.

Farrah

Ameroth said:

Final thoughts:

I don't like the lack of an aff-insta kill as I can see taking on the games "heavies" relying on damage might be a bad idea. Or is it supremely arrogant of me to even think about that at this stage as I will be too inept to use things like damnation anyway?

I wouldn't really worry about this. Makarios is pretty great about balancing the classes and no class should be halted by the other person being too tanky (DWB comes to mind as the biggest potential issue there, though I'm still pretty confident it'd be addressed if it is still an issue - haven't had any DWB fights since the latest changes to the spec).

2h runie, though, for an example, can torso break disembowel, which does largely nonresistable purely percent-based damage, so with gauntlets at least, it literally is an insta-kill on everyone (not sure exactly what str you need for this to be true). No issue there.

Atalkez

I think it's 20 or 21 with whichever rune increases it now. 

Ameroth

Does anyone mind confirming what the strength limit is?

15 (base) +1 spec +1 rune +2 fury + 2 gauntlet (lvl 2) gets you to 21.

So would a torso disembowl like that kill anyone in the game or do you need lvl 3 gauntlets?

Farrah

20 strength will insta-kill anyone without a resist-all type resistance (runies, bards, serpents, not sure what else, if anything).

21 probably does like 94% to resist-all classes. There's not really going to be an issue killing with that though. It means you need them at like 500 or less below max health when you dsb.

Antonius

21 strength for the oneshot kill with Lagua, from memory. (Link to the numbers is in my signature but I'm on mobile so don't have easy access to it.)

Two-handed likely has the easiest time getting disembowels on opponents that aren't at full health, since they'll be using sip balance for fractures rather than healing most of the time. Plus there's always lucky hugalaz procs as Runewarden.

Kenway

There's really no reason to get above 19(96%) strength disembowels as 2h runie in my experience. And I'd definitely recommend picking up a l1 hammer for quicker breaks before you pick up a better sword. Sword helps more than hammer past level 1 but level 1 is pretty awesome.

Mathilda

And if all else fails, you can build up to 6 fractures for a nice double impale-disembowel! 

Ameroth

If I am a troll would I be better off forgoing getting a bastard entirely and get a lvl 3 hammer or do you need the venoms? 

Also just to confirm you can make a hammer a runeblade right?

Ameroth

Or does it have to be a blade to actually dsb? Will the damage pressure be the same or will bastard sword be higher?

Also which is faster bashing bastard or hammer? Sorry for so many questions