Gold Sinks

Nazihk

Kez said:

IMO the removal of gold drops is the way to go. Could also be interesting if the only gold drops came from city guards.
There are many other ways to generate gold, and people would still hunt for experience. They just wouldn't be able to do both at once quite so effortlessly.

There's not a whole lot of other ways to generate gold that are reliable. The thing about bashing is that there's a ton of bashing areas out there and anybody can do it. There's no need to learn quests or play 'guess the keyword'.

If you want to remove gold drops from bashing and limit gold income, the best thing to do would be to take a page out of WoW's book and implement daily quests with various objectives, with a max number that can be completed per day. Factional dailies that want you to tank a city, bashing dailies that want you to go kill X undead, gathering dailies that need you to collect X clay, whatever. You can adjust quantities and such required to prevent people from logging on, blasting out dailies in 5 minutes, and logging off.

This is probably the single best way to normalize gold income.

Prythe

Borran said:

The solution to this is to take control of it as its playerbase and ensure that new players are able to get their credits at a decent rate while selling to the older more established characters at a more competetive rate. 

But that'd require a playerbase that is focused on the good of the game and the common player over their own self-interests. 

Novice only Credit Market? Bound only? Or X percent bound?

Tahquil

New dragon bashing areas that drop temporary relics but only accessible via racial langauge passwords. No following, no portalling into the area.

honestly I just want racial languages to have some sort of worth other than the iskadar dwarves and istarion

Driden

I think the communist have the answer were looking for here. Income redistribution! Take all the money someone else worked really hard for and give to other people! You know cause equality! Woooo! Delete the trade skills for making curatives! Initiate free healthcare. Everyone get unlimited herbs and just tax everyone one to pay for that service! What you don't fight or use many herbs? Stop complaining its for the greater good. Don't be an evil conservachaen. You might need it some day. So work hard for other people's well being! 

Obviously not serious post. 

Trey

       

Trey

      

Trey

       

Telinus

Did you get permission to post Trumps sinks?

Minifie

Telinus said:

Did you get permission to post Trumps sinks?

The new Godwinning law in action, all discussions will no longer divert to hitler, but to trump now instead.

Asmodron

I must say, I do love that third one.

Kyrra

I like the second one. Those taps are purdy.

Trey

      

Minifie

on the topic...

Asmodron

Ooooooooooooooooo that last golden one. Yes plzzz

Linton

Daeir said:

Lessons for gold would massively devalue credit purchases for the purposes of learning, a probably not-insignificant source of income for IRE given how much multiclass soaks up lessons at higher tiers. Even if lessons for gold is massively underweighted compared to credit purchasing (at a minimum, you'd need to have the value of a single credit in gold return LESS than the actual equivalent credit unit), it would put a significant amount of pressure on what is presumably a primary income stream.

The payment model is the issue. Unfortunately, I don't ever see it changing. I've been highly critical of the MTX model that IRE has used (and founded as a concept, funnily enough), but so many mechanics and the very nature of balance in the game itself is tied so heavily to the model now that any attempts to divest away from it will pretty much result in something akin to an entirely separate game.

There isn't really a solution to this. If it isn't lessons and it's consumable buffs from SoW, then the artefacts that offer those equivalent buffs (l1 stat arties etc) are underweighted purchases and people will be more likely to spend game time accruing gold that they know can net them these buffs for when they need them instead of having them personally.

Any way you roll the dice, IRE loses out on it. They lose out if they don't change anything either, as the CFS values become increasingly unreachable for new players due to gold inflation.

The only way to fix it is to change pretty much everything about a comparatively huge portion of the game, and it probably just isn't feasible to do. Even then, they still probably lose. One of the main reasons that I worry about Achaea a lot, to be honest. It doesn't seem very sustainable anymore.

I feel a change of philosophy would be needed for that to happen. Instead of thinking of profit as the goal, let it be the consequence of a quality game world environment. When profit is the goal, we may get additions that actually harm the game world and this may in turn harm what IRE earns later on even though it may not be immediately apparent. Profit as a consequence would ensure that doesn't happen.

Of course this is just something floating around in my head and not substantiated in any way nor am I any kind of business person. Also, admin has said before they know how to run this business(I think it was in the last gold sink thread), so perhaps things are not as unsustainable as we the players might imagine. A warning though, Nokia probably thought they knew their business too.

I speculate that Achaea is sustained right now because it has been around a long time and has accrued enough regulars who are willing to spent part of their paycheck on new content on a regular basis. So the recent(compared to its lifetime) raising of the perceived paywall is actually timely in a sense that Achaea now has enough such regulars.

This could mean that new players being shut out isn't that much of a problem anymore. Afterall some will still make it thru to add to the existing paying regulars.

Personally, I would love to sense a change in philosophy as described above. For the changes part, I would address the following:

- Allow non paying players to achieve material objectives using time spent in the realms, like how they were more able to in the past. This includes lowering CFS with the serious implementation of gold sinks. This can only happen if non paying players are valued for their contribution to the game world and seen as bringing 'profit' to the company by making the world lively with their creativity or mere existence which in turn can draw more new players of which some are paying ones. I feel if this is done more, the qwho may not be shrinking or not as much as it has.

- Forum representation. We have commented how forum represents only a minority of the playerbase. Sometimes we even hear forum veterans telling newcomers that staying away from the forums would be to their benefit. We left it at that but I feel we can go further by making changes that encourage forum participation from the demographic that shy away from the forums. This way admin can get a more comprehensive feedback when implementing player ideas etc.

There is also I believe correlation between paying players and forum participation. Paying consumers feel entitled to make their opinion known. While there is nothing wrong with that, it could lead to a skewing when it comes to making addition to the Achaea world such that they overly benefit only a group and alienate others. Example: If PK focused players are the highest spenders and most represented in the forums, then the game becomes more PK/material focused which could hurt the 'worldness' of the game if overly done.

---

Anyway, just throwing out some thoughts. I believe Achaea has enough paying regulars who are happy to keep paying for new content and will likely continue with its current course.

Sarapis

Linton said:

I feel a change of philosophy would be needed for that to happen. Instead of thinking of profit as the goal, let it be the consequence of a quality game world environment. 

That is very much already the case though. There's no revenue or profit without a quality game world and without revenue, we go do something else. They're inescapably intertwined.

Driden

Sarapis said:

Linton said:

I feel a change of philosophy would be needed for that to happen. Instead of thinking of profit as the goal, let it be the consequence of a quality game world environment. 

That is very much already the case though. There's no revenue or profit without a quality game world and without revenue, we go do something else. They're inescapably intertwined.

Holy god the solution is simple. Either make some current Artie's rentable for gold or even better make brand new ones that can only be attained with gold for a limited time. People sell credits to get gold to rent new shiny Artie's. People with gold already just spend said gold to get new shiny Artie's. Make stupid sips of stuff purchasable with gold make it expensive or cheap it won't matter. Ta da! You now created something that people like me who do t hunt will sell credits to get and people who just bash can get credits and gold goes away. Healthy number of Rp and pk Artie's. Poof. /thread. 

Shirszae

That first sink is beautiful

Frederich

The handle's at a very awkward spot.  Would prefer it higher up.  It does the optimal job of having the water fall in from the middle though.  Which is a lot better than some sinks where your hands are bumpin against the back of it to try and wash your god damn hands.

8/10, would melt down for gold.

Krypton

I hate raised sinks. If you splash, you have to wipe not just around the bowl, but down the sides and beneath it, too??

No fuckin' thanks.

Cailan

Gotta have gold showers to match the gold sinks too. 

Prythe

Driden said:

Sarapis said:

Linton said:

I feel a change of philosophy would be needed for that to happen. Instead of thinking of profit as the goal, let it be the consequence of a quality game world environment. 

That is very much already the case though. There's no revenue or profit without a quality game world and without revenue, we go do something else. They're inescapably intertwined.

Holy god the solution is simple. Either make some current Artie's rentable for gold or even better make brand new ones that can only be attained with gold for a limited time. People sell credits to get gold to rent new shiny Artie's. People with gold already just spend said gold to get new shiny Artie's. Make stupid sips of stuff purchasable with gold make it expensive or cheap it won't matter. Ta da! You now created something that people like me who do t hunt will sell credits to get and people who just bash can get credits and gold goes away. Healthy number of Rp and pk Artie's. Poof. /thread. 

Rentable via Gold is a good idea as that creates a constant revenue stream. Some will buy credits to sell for gold, others will spend gold they already have.

They should be different from the Artes we have so that those who already own everything and more will still be tempted to rent them for special, or constant, occasions.

Driden

Prythe said:

Driden said:

Sarapis said:

Linton said:

I feel a change of philosophy would be needed for that to happen. Instead of thinking of profit as the goal, let it be the consequence of a quality game world environment. 

That is very much already the case though. There's no revenue or profit without a quality game world and without revenue, we go do something else. They're inescapably intertwined.

Holy god the solution is simple. Either make some current Artie's rentable for gold or even better make brand new ones that can only be attained with gold for a limited time. People sell credits to get gold to rent new shiny Artie's. People with gold already just spend said gold to get new shiny Artie's. Make stupid sips of stuff purchasable with gold make it expensive or cheap it won't matter. Ta da! You now created something that people like me who do t hunt will sell credits to get and people who just bash can get credits and gold goes away. Healthy number of Rp and pk Artie's. Poof. /thread. 

Rentable via Gold is a good idea as that creates a constant revenue stream. Some will buy credits to sell for gold, others will spend gold they already have.

They should be different from the Artes we have so that those who already own everything and more will still be tempted to rent them for special, or constant, occasions.

Oh look someone sane! Has this really been a problem for so long? @makarios dosent cut into your bottom dollar. People will like it. If no one uses it then you lose nothing anyways. Make decent items for the player base. Do this never read this thread again. I'm over here waiting for the next event and everyone else is stuck on shiny shit. Hell you can even do an event where people can submit ideas for review for guess what? Lots of gold! Anytime you guys wanna hire me. Right here. I mean no disrespect. I'm just tired of reading the same old whiny threads and seeing no solutions? Don't you pay people to think of shit to make the game better? /thread again. 

Sena

Driden said:

I'm just tired of reading the same old whiny threads and seeing no solutions? Don't you pay people to think of shit to make the game better? /thread again. 

Renting arties for gold is suggested literally every time a thread like this pops up, I wouldn't be surprised if it was suggested even before the first artefacts were put up for sale in 2000. Nobody has trouble thinking of this idea.

Caelan

Cailan said:

Gotta have gold showers to match the gold sinks too. 

Come on @Trey you know what you want to post!

Nazihk

Just adding gold sinks doesn't work because when you add a gold sink a lot of people will generate gold specifically to get that gold sink. The end result is that the gold sink doesn't actually sink much gold because its existence makes people generate more gold. 

Gold sinks only work when your gold_in/gold_out ratio isn't completely fucked.

Achilles

This would be pretty difficult to track but the leasing out of arties does make sense, with a sizeable upfront payment and thereafter an upkeep cost.  It would increase smaller credit purchases from some players to sell credits to maintain the gold for this upkeep, the players who plan to play for a long time will ultimately still buy the artefact outright.  

Could also just limit the number of rental artefacts to see the impact, it can clearly work (see rental car industry).

Cooper

Rentable artefacts solves very little. The gold that is the problem is the millions that high end players have, not the 100k some have in their packs. The players that have huge amounts of gold also usually have huge amounts of artefacts, so renting artefacts won't appeal to them.

Achilles

Would still remove a sizeable amount of people off CFS and remove a lot of gold.  Would also encourage more people to actually do stuff in Achaea to maintain.  Activity levels are important and admin should be looking at that.   

Another to add would be capping amounts of credits you can buy on CFS per day.  It works for org credits, this would slow someone with a ton of gold from manipulating the credit market.  

Kez

Capping the amount of credits I can buy every day would just make me buy credits every day. In comparison, I haven't bought credits off cfs since they were 5k, but with a cap I would. That makes me think the result would be the opposite of the desire.