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Comments
At this point it is quite confusing.
People have issued and been told it is fine. Makarios has been messaged (even by me) and informed about it several times, as well as tagged in some threads. I believe I recall him saying it is being discussed(?). I at the time was upset because I had gotten an SoA specifically on the idea that I cant have the SoA effect as a dragon.
With so much time that has gone by, it only seemed logical to assume it is indeed a thing.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
(please go dormant for three years)
In saying that though, when I solo hunt, I never use Safeguard. I rarely have to use Bulwark. I very rarely use Etch unless I want to see it world-shattering crit on a shark and blow it up like @Dunn blows up stolen infants.
While I'm no longer artied to the teeth, I'm still pretty highly equipped for defensive artifacts so I can't really say much there compared to non-artied bashing. Hunting was so different back before I had any artifacts at all.
Sylvan hunting though... unartied is so bad compared to when I last played a Sylvan. If I have a level 80 character, that has the Lucky trait and a level 1 crit pendant, I expect to at least be putting out -some- critical hits. I've no idea what hunting would be like up to 80 now, but Viridian just doesn't seem to put out much damage anymore and that is combined with Torrent and Stonevine for extra damage.
I remember the Mirror Caves being a really viable place to hunt. If you were around level 60ish, you could start hunting the sileg and they were pretty decent for Meropis hunting at a lower level. I've now experienced a level 80 character taking around 8-10 minutes to kill a juvenile sileg because of just no crits at all. Not to mention the foxes and herons around the Asterion Peninsula, or the jackals in the Northern Scrublands. That is so awful.
I'm not entirely sure that it's worth having a tanky class if they also can't put out the damage. I probably end up wasting more curatives on that character staying alive while waiting for something to die, and it's one instance where even if you hunt with someone else, you know you're contributing shit damage to the group effort.
Since having gained a couple levels closer to 85 and upgrading to +2 critical hits, it's a drastic improvement but I'm unsure if upgrading my crit hit pendant sooner would have made much difference.
I feel genuinely sorry for anyone that starts off with Sylvan these days and expects to hunt their way up without investing in artifacts or getting dragged around for experience. It seems pretty unbalanced.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Then, purely for my own decision making, I'll factor in more subjective things, like how bashing feels as that class and how concerned I am about survivability. I much prefer to be doing things, so I'd take a class that attacks once every 2 seconds over one that attacks once every 4 seconds, even if all other factors are equal. If I feel like there's a high risk of dying as a specific class unless I'm overly cautious (or happen to get the right luck with crits at the right time), then I might favour a class that is a tiny bit slower in terms of clear speed, but is (almost) never going to lose time because I burst/died.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Message #557 Sent by Dalinor
11/20/21:44 Greetings! Regarding your issue #78030: It is currently allowable for dragons to wear cloth armour and to use paragons therein. Please let us know if you have any further questions via ISSUE ME!
- Time to kill (TTK): how long it takes the classes to kill the same enemy, assuming equal level, equal traits and equal artifact level. This is inherently related to DPS, as DPS is a measure of damage output, but far more measurable as it's based off of time instead of concealed damage numbers.
- Tankiness: ability to withstand damage, again assuming the same enemy and the same level, traits and artifacts. I'd argue that endurance/willpower/class-specific energy pools fall into this category as well, as they directly contribute to how long you're able to bash without downtime.
Tankiness and TTK have an inverse relationship with each other; the lower your TTK (aka the faster you kill things), the less tankiness matters. The higher your tankiness, the less TTK matters.
Tankiness is implied to be more beneficial for bashing as it's both easier to itemize for (a hunter's belt will give you the extra con point no matter your class) and because, on average, classes have more defensive utility than offensive, which, when paired with the easier itemization, allows players to reach higher levels of health and damage mitigation without their chosen class having any major influence.
2h runewarden, when judged by these parameters, is by far the best bashing class, as it has access to high-tier damage mitigation (full plate and runelore, not to mention all the general abilities such as survival and avoidance and being a knight [tank] class in general, so high health pools), but at the same time still manages a decent TTK due to the 2h weaponmastery specialization and the offensive utility found in runelore.
It sounds like there is a lot of confusion surrounding the dragons with artefact armour situation. Nicola and I will talk about this today and decide on a final stance. Apologies for the conflicting information there, it sounds like there's been a communication error somewhere.
We're not going to post exact numbers, but I will note a few things about bashing damage:
- There is a standard dps for everyone. This applies to every bashing attack in the game. This standard dps baseline is universal across all classes except for dragon which has a higher baseline, as we're fine with it having a bashing advantage.
- This standard dps gets increased or decreased based on how tanky your class is. This does not factor personal tanking - you don't get penalised for artefacting out your tank, naturally. This is a modifier we apply per class, so this is not a difficult thing for us to change if a particular class is struggling. Monk already has one of the highest bonus damage modifiers (beaten only by blademaster), so I will do some investigating to see what is causing them to have so many difficulties compared to other classes.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Calculating dps is all well and good, but when crits become a factor, speed is far more important than actual dps, hence why artied serpent and bard are having such a ball. Having a baseline is good, and sure, math away like it's a statistics class, but you also need to account for the other factors that are attributing to the very real gap in bashing classes right now, and math isn't going to solve that.
tldr: Math is not the ultimate answer to life, the universe and everything
Edit: also what Antonius said
We just don't know how to factor in tanking ability and crit rates properly. For now.
In terms of raw damage, I'm not sure that's where monk suffers. With 18 str and level 3 knuckles, scorpion stance, damage before crits seems pretty reasonable, and within the range of what I see others putting out. The problem seems to me that the monk kit in terms of PvP is very active/reactive with competing drains, and a lot of this does not translate to PvE. Kai generation is out completely in solo PvE, which means things like kai heal which would keep you alive in a fight don't apply. Leather armour and toughness don't go far in terms of mitigation, and the defensive bonus offered by bodyblock seems very marginal. Options like numb are good for hitting and running, but having to lean on it is a big drain to efficiency when comparatively you could just bash as a class with high armor and not run the risk. Vitality is great, but vitality has a cooldown, and once it fires you're probably already in a very dangerous spot. Transmute is also great, but you need even more investment to take advantage of it regularly if you're not in an int-heavy spec already, and if you are, you have bigger problems to deal with.
Since I tank like paper, I have to spec my stats to maximize my constitution as the entry fee for bashing higher tier areas, which accordingly makes my combos pretty wimpy. I feel like classes with higher mitigation have more wiggle room here, which if nothing else, makes the experience and 'feel' more enjoyable.
Off the top of my head, maybe having bodyblock mitigation against denizens be affected by stance could help? My understanding is that it's a (low) amount of static resistance, vs. players where it's a chance of halving damage. This chance is significantly modified by your stance, but the PvE side doesn't work that way. Maybe the damage reduction could be modified by stance such that, for instance, you might want to use cat stance against high damage mobs, sacrificing your combo speed for sheer mitigation and therefore reducing the chance that you explode in one hit.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
It's mostly from the tanking potential of monks. That's the major issue.
Something changed, earlier, or has always been different. I went to Azdun earlier, and the stack of 9 goblin zombies that, on any normal day, I would plow through, ended up forcing me back and actually making me run. This is a stark contrast to before, during the great hunt in which I can just sit there and facetank. Then again, I likely also had a fully charged cape at that point (or hunting runes). The issue with monks isn't their damage. Their damage is really good, and because they're fast, it makes combat feel more intuitive compared to say... Dragon. Who are slow, clunky, and have a reallyyy slow shield breaker move that does some damage. Whereas with monk I just roundhouse kick that shit away and punch twice. It doesn't slow me down, or make me feel slower.
The downside is, monks are about as tanky as wet paper. Put simply, they need the artefacts to be able to hunt. Without arties, I am fairly certain I wouldn't be able to hunt Vertani, let alone anything that groups.
As a note, another reasons why weapon classes are generally better is that they don't have 5000 arties they need to buy. An artie rapier will increase your damage, to hit, AND your speed. It costs about the same as monk knuckles (which only increase your fistycuffs damage).
Not to mention a lot of classes can use shield of absorption, which, from every single person I've seen in this thread is talking about, seems to be a factor in some fashion. The classes that can't wield the shield effectively (Druid, BM, Monk), are the ones that people are going "GOOD GOD NO NOT AGAIN!!!" Though, 2h runie and dwc are better off because they just have an absurd amount of tankiness. I guess.
Now it also comes to a group hunting dynamic as well. What can these classes bring to the table?
Bards can charm foes, as well as provide significant defensive abilities in the form of harmonics, alongside these are offensive because canticle and faster attacking. Or whatever.
Runies? They can heal. Their BR makes them and friends take less damage. They can also jump in the way of attacks for you. Literally never a bad choice.
Priests/Paladins need not have a say in this because lay on hands is the good shit right there.
Monks/BMs/Druids from what I know don't provide much of anything to group combat, generally squishy and have few defensive techniques besides "just leave and come back"... and that's about it.
Monks/BMs from before had reallllyy bad damage, and terrible tankiness. Now they have great damage, but are still terribly squishy without a ton of defensive arties to buff them up. (And Monk suffers moreso for this, because he has a lot of arties needed to make his offensive better. Since BMs can simply buy one thing and get 5%-15% speed and damage. Which generate a higher net DPS)
Knowing is half the battle!
Currently available: Abs, Cnote, Keepalive, Lootpet, Mapmod
- To love another person is to see the face of G/d
- Let me get my hat and my knife
- It's your apple, take a bite
- Don't dream it ... be it
But seriously, who even hunts in a group anymore. Seems more productive to focus on bashing balance in a solo situation, since that's mostly how it's done.
Currently available: Abs, Cnote, Keepalive, Lootpet, Mapmod
Also, group hunting (in a 2 person or 3 person setting) is fun because it lets people talk, and enjoy company instead of walk to room. F1. Continue walking around.
Endurance though, I can kick and punch all day and never even break a sweat. Seems a bit off.
Misc
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