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Talisman sets
What is everyones thoughts on the talisman items that have been created so far?
I'm on the fence with whether I like them (new content/items added is always pretty cool), and hating them because its just increased the gap between the rich/poor of the achaean economy (mix between ingame rich/OOC paying for stuff).
Does anyone feel that items such as Miasma/Crucible/Sycophantic cape etc. has set a poor precedent for Achaea that will lead to some people having so much utility, power and survivability (lvl 3 mana/health regen ring for instance), that it just creates a game where new players do not even want to try, or do you think it benefits the game as a whole and makes it more interesting for people to play in this environment?
I'm on the fence with whether I like them (new content/items added is always pretty cool), and hating them because its just increased the gap between the rich/poor of the achaean economy (mix between ingame rich/OOC paying for stuff).
Does anyone feel that items such as Miasma/Crucible/Sycophantic cape etc. has set a poor precedent for Achaea that will lead to some people having so much utility, power and survivability (lvl 3 mana/health regen ring for instance), that it just creates a game where new players do not even want to try, or do you think it benefits the game as a whole and makes it more interesting for people to play in this environment?
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/s
@Daeir actually argued vehemently against them.
What's your viewpoint on the Talismans, as opposed to your sarcastic response?
Good, bad, indifferent?
The shouldercape isn't really OP though. It's.. pretty nice, but it doesn't break anything. Usually. Probably.
I'd hate not having one, though.
Sure, no one's unbeatable. But we are often talking about groups that even without a crucible can and regularly beat groups much bigger than their own.
I understand its use on instances where your odds are incredibly skewed, like NihilistsvsMSC, but for raids and the like I think it just robs people of the desire to fight a little.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
I like that they're powerful, potentially game-changing items that require some effort to obtain (compared to artefacts, which you simply buy from a shop). Spending a few weeks watching market and making deals to get my cape was much more satisfying than any artefact purchase (even if I earn the credits for an artefact in-game, it's too grindy to really give the same satisfaction).
I don't really know if any of them are currently overpowered or problematic, but in general I think the only problem I have with them is availability. I don't think something as impactful as the more useful talisman sets should be restricted to people who were around at a specific time (auctions are less problematic because they're also extremely limited in quantity, whereas talismans are generally available to most anyone who can afford them at the right time). They don't need to be constantly available, but at least available (at not-ridiculous prices) a few times a year. So far, I think most talisman sets have been pretty good about this, but it remains my primary concern with the system.
The overpowered items also set a bad precedent with what people will expect to find in future talisman sets. With the expectation for world destroying artefacts in each set any set that doesn't meet expectations is going to probably draw in less money than if all sets had been roughly equal in perceived value.
This sort of already exists for the Azatlan pieces, where they were introduced on a few islands by way of that ship sinking or whatever the events post was, giving them a reason for why they can be found there (or on those corpses during the Caspiite invasion). The Marks set, for example, would be obvious for the Quisalis Den/Ivory Tower, while Black Wave pieces for everywhere in the Underrealm, and so on. They could also remain accessible via talisman caches for those who'd prefer to simply buy them in promotions, or would show up as bashing rewards after the promotion ends (giving early access to those who pay).
As far as individual problems, the crucible and miasma mask are very nasty when working together, but eh.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
Are if they lose their tradein values of like "300+cr just for bashing and getting lucky 1 day."
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
And if that's the case, you have to consider just how much competition you'd suddenly be getting for those areas that the pieces drop from. Remember Penwize coming in and wrecking your bashing route? Imagine that times twelve. Not even by people who want the talismans, but want the pieces to sell.
In the end, probably not going to happen, for all those reasons as well as the fact that admin gets lots of money from those promos, and making those talismans obtainable in-game would make them worth a little less. Maybe not a huge amount less, but it'd still have an impact.
All that said, I don't like talisman sets. I like the idea, I think they're neat, but the really good ones just expand the gulf between people with lots of disposable income and those that don't. The scarcity makes it even worse - that level 3 con belt will always be in the artefact shop, but the death cape? May not even be obtainable for another four or five months, whenever the admin decide it's time to release more compatible caches, and you better hope you've really saved up for it.
I think the Elder Dragon set was a great start and with the amount needed and drop rates, it gave you something to aim for but was attainable to everyone. I personally don't like the rest of the talisman sets for the reason listed above. Also, talismans like the crucibles (I've not played in months, so might have been nerfed?) really seemed to swing raids into the haves / have nots far more than your standard artifacts did. Bringing talismans into the game was a gamble and while I think it's paid off initially with the amount of credits bought, I think the longer term affects could be negative unless something is changed. Achaea was all about people having the same chance to get to the same point, whether you bashed 2000cr for a veil or used the Mastercard, the end goal was still attainable. With the promotion only pieces you are really allowing those wealthier customers to benefit in the most part, few exceptions of course, but in the time it takes someone to bash up enough credits (CFS!! haha) the promotion is likely over and / or people have sold or traded their unwanted items in already.
Promotional Talismans seem to be the first major split in the Achaea free-to-play model, although I hope I'm wrong.
Holobombs and such are more managable because the use actually have to put himself at risk to use them.
The continued addition of new artefacts that makes everyone stronger and stronger is not very good for getting new players either. If I wasn't where I'm at in terms of investment I'd probably have quit the game long ago in frustration. Starting over today would be a "not a chance in hell" after just looking at the business model.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
But on a serious note... you should never be able to take a group of midbies to take on an experienced group... the fact you think a crucible makes the difference in that fight is jus all around bad judgement/reasoning...
I say it all the time.. train your newbs. Dont jus give em a name and tell em to mash kill@target.
Overall, I dig the talisman sets - both the hunted up variety, and the pay-per variety. For me personally, besides the tangible benefits, the collection aspect of the whole system appeals to me, as does the gambling aspect of it.
I'm not even sure how you would train them to solve this particular problem. Dying extremely quickly to a group all using room-wide damage abilities, especially when the first death (generally of the weakest person) starts a chain reaction of further increased damage, generally isn't a training issue, it's a maximum health issue. The only solution to that is for them to not participate until they've hit dragon (and are in dragonform) or have bought a lot of artefacts, or to only participate from outside the room.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Normally, I'd agree with you about training people vs just handing them scripts to do it for them.
However, there's not really anything that you can 'learn' from an AoE wipe. Should have left room within 3s of the initial engagement? Most people don't even register that there is an engagement in those first few seconds. Should have shielded? AoE largely bypasses shield, and see: initial reaction. Show have flown? See: Initial reaction
It's counter intuitive to the combat scheme to need to melee for a kill, yet also force people to need to leave the engagement immediately when it gets started because of how prevalent AoE has become. I don't blame anyone for using the skills, hell I've had 12+ kill chains from Thunderstorm. It's a blast.
That doesn't make it fun for the midbie wanting to get a few swings in that dies without even getting targeted or having the chance to really be involved.
The other night, I died purely to 2 people spamming AoE in a room full of people. I was never the 'target', our group was far superior at that point (we had killed several), I was at max health before it started. Between Rays/Crucible, I think 4 or 5 of us died in that final fight to secure the tank victory, against 2 people.
You can't expect anyone to learn from something like that. AoE is entirely too spammable, too easy to generate serious amounts of offense, and works really well with the recent talismans that got released. AoE wasn't as big of an issue before, because alone it just didn't quite do enough to do anything. You might push someone into red health before you die, but largely it was ineffective. Add in the extra bit of damage from Miasma/Crucible, that red health becomes a kill which becomes more damage. It's definitely a positive feedback system now with everything added together, whereas before it was inferior to smart offense.
I'm not a fan, since I see both sides of the spectrum. I can tank the AoE+Crucible stuff (for the most part) long enough to make a decision (assuming it's not a 10 kill chain), but I see smaller people just exploding while never even being a target of any importance. It's just not a good design right now.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Imo, group differences like that, if you want to overcome that then you should have to work extremely hard and do vast amounts of prior planning, and have it all work perfectly. Not just drop 1 thing, use another thing, lean on damage/aoe alias until entire room is wiped.
Realisitically, 5 people should never win that group fight, regardless of skill, without some very serious breaks going their way.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.