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Talisman sets

AylekAylek Member Posts: 170 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
What is everyones thoughts on the talisman items that have been created so far?

I'm on the fence with whether I like them (new content/items added is always pretty cool), and hating them because its just increased the gap between the rich/poor of the achaean economy (mix between ingame rich/OOC paying for stuff).

Does anyone feel that items such as Miasma/Crucible/Sycophantic cape etc. has set a poor precedent for Achaea that will lead to some people having so much utility, power and survivability (lvl 3 mana/health regen ring for instance), that it just creates a game where new players do not even want to try, or do you think it benefits the game as a whole and makes it more interesting for people to play in this environment?
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Comments

  • ArmaliArmali Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    No, this is not something that anybody has complained about ever.

    /s

    @Daeir actually argued vehemently against them.
  • AylekAylek Member Posts: 170 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Armali said:
    No, this is not something that anybody has complained about ever.

    /s

    @Daeir actually argued vehemently against them.
    Curious for peoples viewpoints, couldn't really be bothered to scan through X pages of Y forums.

    What's your viewpoint on the Talismans, as opposed to your sarcastic response?

    Good, bad, indifferent?
  • AntidasAntidas Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I personally dislike the crucible/miasma talismans, although the others don't bother me much. The issue with those guys is that generally speaking, it eliminates the possibility of countering small groups of highly skilled and highly artied players with large groups of less-skilled and less-artied players, as has been evidenced by Ashtan recently. The damage it outputs is too much for an unartied person to take, and the result is that it doesn't require very much effort to quickly wipe these larger groups of players.

    Senoske
  • FrederichFrederich Member Posts: 1,243 @ - Epic Achaean
    I don't deal with them, but they're kinda dumb.

    The shouldercape isn't really OP though.  It's.. pretty nice, but it doesn't break anything.  Usually.  Probably.

    I'd hate not having one, though.
  • DunnDunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,233 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Probably a bad time to mention that crucibles have been bugged since the nerf to starburst and they were vanishing from inventories a lot ;)


  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,273 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't mind most others, but the crucibles and maybe the miasma thing (and definitely the two coupled together) seem a bit overkill. Maybe its just that usually the people who have them already have an edge, be it in terms of skill or coordination or both, but the crucible further pushes that to the point where I sometimes wonder what's the point of fighting a group like that unless you want your group to be the Christmas lights of the deathsight tree.

    Sure, no one's unbeatable. But we are often talking about groups that even without a crucible can and regularly beat groups much bigger than their own. 

    I understand its use on instances where your odds are incredibly skewed, like NihilistsvsMSC, but for raids and the like I think it just robs people of the desire to fight a little.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2016
    Overall, I like them.

    I like that they're powerful, potentially game-changing items that require some effort to obtain (compared to artefacts, which you simply buy from a shop). Spending a few weeks watching market and making deals to get my cape was much more satisfying than any artefact purchase (even if I earn the credits for an artefact in-game, it's too grindy to really give the same satisfaction).

    I don't really know if any of them are currently overpowered or problematic, but in general I think the only problem I have with them is availability. I don't think something as impactful as the more useful talisman sets should be restricted to people who were around at a specific time (auctions are less problematic because they're also extremely limited in quantity, whereas talismans are generally available to most anyone who can afford them at the right time). They don't need to be constantly available, but at least available (at not-ridiculous prices) a few times a year. So far, I think most talisman sets have been pretty good about this, but it remains my primary concern with the system.
    ZahanBann
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I like that they're powerful.

    I PROFOUNDLY dislike that they're only available via promotions for the most part. It's disgusting, egregious pay-to-win. No other words for it.

    Talismans were slated as a primarily PvE addition and instead have become a crux for promotions to lean on to encourage high spenders to splurge for auction-level artefacts balanced by scarcity rather than actual gameplay concerns.

    It isn't a good thing, overall.
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,404 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2016
    The original idea as bashing rewards and convenience items I liked. The recent way they have been presented to us stinks to much like money grabbing ad unbalanced mechanics that potentially decreases the enjoyment of people who can't afford the items themselves due to those who have the tiems, using them as intended.

    The overpowered items also set a bad precedent with what people will expect to find in future talisman sets. With the expectation for world destroying artefacts in each set any set that doesn't meet expectations is going to probably draw in less money than if all sets had been roughly equal in perceived value.
    ShirszaeSkyeYselaSenoske
  • FrederichFrederich Member Posts: 1,243 @ - Epic Achaean
    The only way I could see the marks pieces, OR the black wave pieces actually being listed as 'drops' in chance...

    Are if they lose their tradein values of like "300+cr just for bashing and getting lucky 1 day."
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,273 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Could just make it so that the ones you find bashing don't have the tradein value, while the ones you find on the chache do.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Bann
  • TydasTydas Member Posts: 232 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited December 2016
    There's a big difference between dropped talismans and cache ones, and that's the number of pieces you need to complete it. The Azlatan headdress? That requires a HUGE number of drops, and it's not a very spectacular talisman. All the cache talismans, except for some history ones, are only four talisman pieces each. If, and that's a huge if, admin decides to make some of the cache talismans drop from denizens, those versions would be composed of different pieces requiring much larger numbers. Suremkhenia, for example, is basically both the 800 credit regen rings, upgraded. 1600 level rings going by the standard pattern, if they actually existed, for 3200 credits total. Imagine how many pieces you'd have to hunt up to get something of that quality.

    And if that's the case, you have to consider just how much competition you'd suddenly be getting for those areas that the pieces drop from. Remember Penwize coming in and wrecking your bashing route? Imagine that times twelve. Not even by people who want the talismans, but want the pieces to sell.

    In the end, probably not going to happen, for all those reasons as well as the fact that admin gets lots of money from those promos, and making those talismans obtainable in-game would make them worth a little less. Maybe not a huge amount less, but it'd still have an impact.

    All that said, I don't like talisman sets. I like the idea, I think they're neat, but the really good ones just expand the gulf between people with lots of disposable income and those that don't. The scarcity makes it even worse - that level 3 con belt will always be in the artefact shop, but the death cape? May not even be obtainable for another four or five months, whenever the admin decide it's time to release more compatible caches, and you better hope you've really saved up for it.
  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,446 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tydas said:


    All that said, I don't like talisman sets. I like the idea, I think they're neat, but the really good ones just expand the gulf between people with lots of disposable income and those that don't. The scarcity makes it even worse - that level 3 con belt will always be in the artefact shop, but the death cape? May not even be obtainable for another four or five months, whenever the admin decide it's time to release more compatible caches, and you better hope you've really saved up for it.
    ^This.

    I think the Elder Dragon set was a great start and with the amount needed and drop rates, it gave you something to aim for but was attainable to everyone. I personally don't like the rest of the talisman sets for the reason listed above. Also, talismans like the crucibles (I've not played in months, so might have been nerfed?) really seemed to swing raids into the haves / have nots far more than your standard artifacts did. Bringing talismans into the game was a gamble and while I think it's paid off initially with the amount of credits bought, I think the longer term affects could be negative unless something is changed. Achaea was all about people having the same chance to get to the same point, whether you bashed 2000cr for a veil or used the Mastercard, the end goal was still attainable. With the promotion only pieces you are really allowing those wealthier customers to benefit in the most part, few exceptions of course, but in the time it takes someone to bash up enough credits (CFS!! haha) the promotion is likely over and / or people have sold or traded their unwanted items in already. 

    Promotional Talismans seem to be the first major split in the Achaea free-to-play model, although I hope I'm wrong.
    image
  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 2,295 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Except you can still buy cruicibles. Two Ashtani have completed one in the past rl month and I know where another one is for sell well below the entirely reasonable 1k price everyone else has attached to it. Been debating buying a second, since I sold mine in early November.  Some of these arties you'll probably never see again, but the deaths pieces are definitely not dried up, yet. 
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,327 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I still have one I can sell if someone wants to offer a ridiculous amount of credits for it. 

  • GreysGreys Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 713 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @Cooper I think 2 credits would be a very ridiculous offer for it.
    LiyaneZahan
  • GreysGreys Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 713 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @cooper Payment upon delivery of goods.
  • AlaskarAlaskar Member Posts: 393 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I mean, it is a ridiculous amount.

    CooperLiyane
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,935 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't think crucible is an issue, personally. I think the existence of effective, spammable room-wide damage attacks is the problem - and, to be honest, it was a problem before crucible came along, though it is definitely worse now that crucible and miasma exist - which generally means it comes down to whether or not your group has one of those. Yes, friendly fire is a factor, but when the majority of your group has maximum health that's 50%+ more than the majority of the group you're fighting, and that group doesn't have easily spammable room-wide damage, there's a definite advantage there because they're all going to die before you do.
    FarrahAtalkez
  • ProficyProficy Member Posts: 399 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Rangor said:
    I don't like the Room-Wide-Damage power. Too stronk. I can't really take a group of midbies to fight a team that knows how to use crucible effectively, they will just be eaten by the room-damage and won't actually manage to contribute or enjoy it at all. Find the enemy, half the team gets blown up in the first 5-10 seconds. Especially problematic when bursting the user didn't stop it. Could also add a more significant message when they are placed and add a longer EQ/Balance cost to setting them up.

    Holobombs and such are more managable because the use actually have to put himself at risk to use them. 

    The continued addition of new artefacts that makes everyone stronger and stronger is not very good for getting new players either. If I wasn't where I'm at in terms of investment I'd probably have quit the game long ago in frustration. Starting over today would be a "not a chance in hell" after just looking at the business model.
    You can still quit the game... promise you alot of people wouldnt mind!!

    But on a serious note... you should never be able to take a group of midbies to take on an experienced group... the fact you think a crucible makes the difference in that fight is jus all around bad judgement/reasoning...

    I say it all the time.. train your newbs. Dont jus give em a name and tell em to mash [email protected]
    AegothBann
  • TarausTaraus The Gypsy WindMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 890 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tydas said:
    The Azlatan headdress? That requires a HUGE number of drops, and it's not a very spectacular talisman.
    Just to comment on this particular one - I have to disagree with that statement. The headdress, for what it is, what it does, and the particular playerbase that it was aimed at - its pretty fucking powerful.

    Overall, I dig the talisman sets - both the hunted up variety, and the pay-per variety. For me personally, besides the tangible benefits, the collection aspect of the whole system appeals to me, as does the gambling aspect of it.

  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Proficy said:
    Rangor said:
    I don't like the Room-Wide-Damage power. Too stronk. I can't really take a group of midbies to fight a team that knows how to use crucible effectively, they will just be eaten by the room-damage and won't actually manage to contribute or enjoy it at all. Find the enemy, half the team gets blown up in the first 5-10 seconds. Especially problematic when bursting the user didn't stop it. Could also add a more significant message when they are placed and add a longer EQ/Balance cost to setting them up.

    Holobombs and such are more managable because the use actually have to put himself at risk to use them. 

    The continued addition of new artefacts that makes everyone stronger and stronger is not very good for getting new players either. If I wasn't where I'm at in terms of investment I'd probably have quit the game long ago in frustration. Starting over today would be a "not a chance in hell" after just looking at the business model.
    You can still quit the game... promise you alot of people wouldnt mind!!

    But on a serious note... you should never be able to take a group of midbies to take on an experienced group... the fact you think a crucible makes the difference in that fight is jus all around bad judgement/reasoning...

    I say it all the time.. train your newbs. Dont jus give em a name and tell em to mash [email protected]
    Midbies shouldn't be a liability in a fight against more skilled players. Crucible makes them a liability.
    Huh. Neat.
    Liyane
  • PuxiPuxi Member Posts: 625 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I agree that there definitely needs be some balancing on AoE skills/talismans. The problem is walking that fine line of making sure a smaller, more skilled/cohesive group can kill larger numbers, but also not have 1-2 abilities they can spam to achieve it.
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 5,070 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Puxi said:
    I agree that there definitely needs be some balancing on AoE skills/talismans. The problem is walking that fine line of making sure a smaller, more skilled/cohesive group can kill larger numbers, but also not have 1-2 abilities they can spam to achieve it.
    Why should 5 people be able to kill 12?

    Imo, group differences like that, if you want to overcome that then you should have to work extremely hard and do vast amounts of prior planning, and have it all work perfectly. Not just drop 1 thing, use another thing, lean on damage/aoe alias until entire room is wiped.

    Realisitically, 5 people should never win that group fight, regardless of skill, without some very serious breaks going their way.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Liyane
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