DWC + general newb questions

Vallie

Aerek said:

Concuss dodges all these tricky situations, but you have to sacrifice a leg prep to use it. Personally, I use Concuss.

It still feels that for someone like me, this doesn't particularly solve the problem. I understand this will get easier as I get better at not dying, but unless there's some secondary kill route, someone could diagnose after every torso hit or still auto apply torso on leg break, and I can't punish them relevantly - I then have to survive through them again while I try to prep once more. I understand it's a bit of a hyperbolic statement and in combat it's difficult to be perfect, but I'm always wary of spending too much time on something if it's looking too much like a dead end (pun pun pun). I do feel pretty comfortable about putting it all together in lower pvp tiers, but I like looking ahead, too!

Antonius said:

I've found pithakhan to be really ineffective the last month or two, to the point where I've simply not been able to get enough procs frequently enough to stay ahead of mana on people who use moss/potash and have some amount of passive mana regeneration. Anybody else found that or have I just been screwed over hard by RNG for an extended period?

I procced 5-6 times on average in 16s with forged when I was testing on a @Shirszae last night. Not sure exactly how that compares against what is expected, she said she didn't really notice any mana pressure off of it.

Dunn said:

I just manalock a lot. It's fairly artie independent for both you and the opponent since it's percent drain (mana sip rings are fairly rare). Just contemplate off pith procs and go for venom locks off mana<250

I like the idea of locks that both you and @Antonius are suggesting (I was charting out the head thing yesterday!), but I feel like I don't have the ability to keep up enough pressure to compete with a momentum class if I'm still pursuing 2 legs + torso and need the parry bypass, or to land enough pith's in a short enough amount of time. I was going to try to just go all in on a lock strategy by just sticking the para/asthma/slick and not bothering with euphorbia if I don't think I can land a good DSB. I guess in that case I can try and watch for bloodroot eat, and if they don't attack then assume that para and take a chest/leg shot without parry

Farrah

If you break an arm first without them escaping (can try to do after a ground nairat hit if necessary), you can break arm, break leg/prone, break other leg, break torso, impale, dsb.

You can also forget torso and go for thurisaz/othala/hugalaz stacking with a non-torso dsb.

In addition to some of the alternative strats others have suggested.

Exelethril

If you're fighting a momentum class and prepping, I'd go for dual Eihwaz. Hidden nausea/paralysis makes hitting parry less game losing on your end.

Armali

EDIT:  Never mind, you got that covered!

Aerek

Vallie said:

Aerek said:

Concuss dodges all these tricky situations, but you have to sacrifice a leg prep to use it. Personally, I use Concuss.

It still feels that for someone like me, this doesn't particularly solve the problem. I understand this will get easier as I get better at not dying, but unless there's some secondary kill route, someone could diagnose after every torso hit or still auto apply torso on leg break, and I can't punish them relevantly - I then have to survive through them again while I try to prep once more. I understand it's a bit of a hyperbolic statement and in combat it's difficult to be perfect, but I'm always wary of spending too much time on something if it's looking too much like a dead end (pun pun pun). I do feel pretty comfortable about putting it all together in lower pvp tiers, but I like looking ahead, too!

Diagnosing every hit would damage their momentum, they won't kill you that way. Auto-apply to torso on leg break is abuseable, you can kill them if they do this. True, if someone can keep an accurate count on torso hits even through blackout and -always- knows when to apply to torso, you likely won't kill them with Disembowel. This is one of DWC's weaknesses, S&B can more easily punish this scenario. But the people who can do this are very few and far between; even "top tier" fighters aren't usually this perfect.

Farrah's also right about that arm break strat. I always forget to suggest that because I always forget we have Isaz/Engage now. Isaz will knock them off balance for 2s when they try to run, long enough for you to get the leg break in. If they shield, you can work around that too, it just takes some doing.

Dunn

Leg/head into focuslock once you've gotten some aff momentum is pretty brutal too. I'm just too lazy to prep limbs most times 

Mizik

Eihwaz definitely king for prep.

Anedhel

You should be able to do some pretty horrifying damage with Nairat, too, if you prep four limbs. 9 seconds of salves just from double broken legs plus nairat going off for a complete freeze each time you DSL? Break both arms, if they have prios to cure freezing over arms, you can deeeefinitely riftlock them, and if they do arms over freezing, they're never going to stand up. That shit's pretty scary, even if the prep is lackluster. (If you have them on the ground that long, with the isaz balance strip, freezing shivers, and so on, you can totally re-sketch hugalaz when they're sensitive and addicted so they're out of moss and can't outrift anymore, and I'm pretty sure you could abuse pretty much almost anyone. Only thing I can see getting out of that kind of a nightmare'd be someone tumbling into some bullshit like wunjo/nairat on the other side of a wall, or a Sentinel with traps or something)

Vallie

Anedhel said:

You should be able to do some pretty horrifying damage with Nairat, too, if you prep four limbs.

Runie-sect!

At first this seemed pretty amusingly crazy, but on further reflection if Infernals can prep four limbs for vivi, this should be faster as a Runie 'cause of weapon runes.

Feeling more and more like I'll be wanting  lvl 1's if I want to fight anyone above certain HP thresholds, that's a lot of time saved for prep if it's 1-2 less hits per limb + -0.1s per swing.

Anedhel

Level 1's are a pretty great investment, if you can afford them.

Dochitha

What is the difference in speed between L1, L2 and L3?

Vallie

Played around some more with pith, if I loop soft/venom lock I can generally burn mana to 0 around ~40s, but it's giving up sticking nausea/clumsy. Toying with the idea of keeping two sets of scims for eihwaz/pith changes depending on my envenom strategy, since I can only seem to get pith to work if I really focus on it. Has anyone else spent much time trying this sort of thing out?

I've started being in this awkward situation where I'm not the one having to run, and being crap at chasing. I'm mostly relying isaz/engage and block, and occasionally trying to scatter wunjo/nairat in a bunch of rooms, but are there any general tips for chasing/trapping people? Especially against fly?

Exelethril

Msg some occies for their auto-following scripts

Kalila

Exelethril said:

Msg some occies for their auto-following scripts

Oh please, not more of this

Let's be cool and give falcon glance, and doppie look a balance time!

Austere

Exelethril said:

Msg some occies for their auto-following scripts

Any suggestions on which ones to message that would actually turn one over, or is this just a bullshit snide remark?  Asking for a friend. 

Caelan

Austere said:

Exelethril said:

Msg some occies for their auto-following scripts

Any suggestions on which ones to message that would actually turn one over, or is this just a bullshit snide remark?  Asking for a friend. 

I have Austere's, but he swore me to secrecy.

Austere

Caelan said:

Austere said:

Exelethril said:

Msg some occies for their auto-following scripts

Any suggestions on which ones to message that would actually turn one over, or is this just a bullshit snide remark?  Asking for a friend. 

I have Austere's, but he swore me to secrecy.

Wtf, dude you promised.

Vallie

I was going to write a falcon chasing thing, but was hoping for some learnings I was missing so I could be lazy

Oh well, script writing awaayyy~

Exelethril

Austere said:

Exelethril said:

Msg some occies for their auto-following scripts

Any suggestions on which ones to message that would actually turn one over, or is this just a bullshit snide remark?  Asking for a friend. 

Bullshit snide remark. Some people in your IG faction have them though.

Kythra

Writing an auto follow is super easy. Just mine revolves around squinting and a hell of a lot of gagging, then of course when it's abused I have to go into mudlet mapper and lock certain areas. >.> :; 

Imo until the meta changes for prep v momentum, an auto follow (plz, preempt) is necessary for the midbies/high tiers that are going to run when more than x afflictions are on them. Shaman and bard have room control, but lack hinder to prevent running. Serpent has pinshot, but I find the rng annoys me so my auto follower backs me up for when I evade. I also took to making an autobot script for the arena that just uses es <arena> and mudlet mappers throws me right there for when in rampages people like to keep their veils on.

I don't see anything wrong with auto followers. Abuse em.

se|take totem from bag|unwield left|unwield right|pause|prop
Lead them to enemy gates
Take them to theran guards
etc

Depthswalker has a timed autofollow, so we're already one step closer to accepting they can (and possibly) should exist for affliction classes.

unpopularopinionpuffinforprepclasses.jpeg

Austere

Exelethril said:

Austere said:

Exelethril said:

Msg some occies for their auto-following scripts

Any suggestions on which ones to message that would actually turn one over, or is this just a bullshit snide remark?  Asking for a friend. 

Bullshit snide remark. Some people in your IG faction have them though.

Some people in your faction have auto snipe setup, yet I'm not on forums telling people to go ask an Eleusian how.  Stop pointing people toward occies that either do not auto chase or would be unwilling to share these famed auto chasing scripts.  Maybe instead, teach situational awareness so that outside of any one on one situation, they aren't all completely lost tag alongs that get wrecked the second their lead dies. Representing most combat occies in Ashtan I'm sure, I begrudge the waste of time these individuals use asking, both for myself and them and find posts like this largely unhelpful both to true newbies and oldies trying to get their toes wet. 

Cooper

Preempt has auto not following into cities

Atalkez

Cooper said:

Preempt has auto not following into cities

Since when....

Armali

That was like, the one thing @Makarios was hoping would happen with Preempt, I hardly think he'd disable that functionality!

Cooper

I tried to do it to Dunn yesterday and...wait, maybe it's cause he hit totem at defendable and I didn't have lifevision up.

Caelan

Austere said:

Exelethril said:

Austere said:

Exelethril said:

Msg some occies for their auto-following scripts

Any suggestions on which ones to message that would actually turn one over, or is this just a bullshit snide remark?  Asking for a friend. 

Bullshit snide remark. Some people in your IG faction have them though.

.. oldies trying to get their toes wet. 

Dude... just because I said I have your script? TOO SOON! *wail*

Vallie

From my perspective, if I write something for chasing and it gets abused, then I deserved it, and will probably laugh irl pretty hard when I 'splode - just like if you make me cure the wrong way. I think it'll be fun mini project to relax on (especially because I really want to be an Occie anyways ).

Gently nudging back on topic - any suggestion on flyers? I'd guess if I'm just spamming tentacle I won't make any progress in keeping them near.

Anedhel

You can arc after tentacling! Targeted arcs are almost the same as tentacle's eq, from what I remember, without a diadem. That damage helps keep the pressure on (though afaik, runes don't fire on arc, but I might be wrong). 

If it's an Atavian, and not using an RoF, you can stick weariness, that's pretty easy with a kelp stack. If they're using a mount, murder the mount. If they're using an RoF, it's not spammable anymore, is it? Make sure you keep engage up, too, punish them for running! 

Kenway

@Vallie I'll send you my falcon glance scripts next time I'm on. Happy to send them to anyone cause the more it gets used the faster it'll get fixed. For flyers you should 100% fly after them and engage since you can do that while still off balance. Engage does about 21% to any target and doesn't have you waiting an extra four seconds after doing it. Fly, engage, Isaz still can proc in the air for some reason, they either get stuck and you can prone them to the ground or they take a chunk and you can falcon glance follow them. Should add that I feel like double Nairat is woefully overlooked on dwc especially now that it's 100% while prone. As for pith, try looping delph/aconite. On people not expecting it, insomnia/focus will destroy their manapool real quick. That's how we did mana locks with rapiers (granted like 249s but there was no pith drain back then so)

Kenway

Kalila said:

Exelethril said:

Msg some occies for their auto-following scripts

Oh please, not more of this

Let's be cool and give falcon glance, and doppie look a balance time!

The ability to WALK TO <loyal> got nerfed because it was too strong (took balance and there was a small wait period between moves and it didn't tell you wait room/elevation/room contents) but apparently being able to see all that, use gallop/dash/leap with it, move as fast as your celerity level allows, and just hold down an alias for it to flawlessly locate anyone without a veil is fine. Probably my most frequently brought up gripe in acc stuff.