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IRE transplant with class/article questions
Hi all,
Thinking about making Achaea my new home. While MKO closing is the main catalyst for this, a majority of my IRE experience is actually in Lusteria. I'll have roughly 15,000 credits to spend on artifacts. Lessons are separate. I enjoy bashing and org defending/combat. I've never been too terribly interested in being the number one 1v1 guy.
I've read that runewarden and bard can be great bashers and (I think?) group combatants. It sounds as if warden is a bit less complex. Looking for opinions on the two given the 15,000 credits I could invest in them.
I'm more leaning towards warden, but I think my perception of what a bard is is tainted by playing bard in Lusternia - from what I've gathered they may not be that similar.
If I go warden, wondering if race plays a big part in things and also what artifacts I should be looking at.
Thanks for any and all advice. If you think I'm discounting a class given my like for bashing and group combat let me know!
Thinking about making Achaea my new home. While MKO closing is the main catalyst for this, a majority of my IRE experience is actually in Lusteria. I'll have roughly 15,000 credits to spend on artifacts. Lessons are separate. I enjoy bashing and org defending/combat. I've never been too terribly interested in being the number one 1v1 guy.
I've read that runewarden and bard can be great bashers and (I think?) group combatants. It sounds as if warden is a bit less complex. Looking for opinions on the two given the 15,000 credits I could invest in them.
I'm more leaning towards warden, but I think my perception of what a bard is is tainted by playing bard in Lusternia - from what I've gathered they may not be that similar.
If I go warden, wondering if race plays a big part in things and also what artifacts I should be looking at.
Thanks for any and all advice. If you think I'm discounting a class given my like for bashing and group combat let me know!
0
Best Answers
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Runewarden and Bard are both solid options for hunting and for group combat. They do different things, obviously, but they both have things to offer that can't be overlooked.
Runewarden, most importantly, gives you the ability to have 4 quasi-classes with the Insignia (since you have the credits to burn on it) since you can swap weaponmastery specializations that all operate completely differently. You can go brute damage (dwb) or damage and afflictions (2h, dwc, snb) which all have their benefits individually. You also get runes, which help a lot with bashing. I would reccomend speccing for strength and buying health, unless you plan on getting +3 of both.
Bard you have harmonics which are passive room-effects that hit your enemies list, you have impatience on demand and the ability to lock quickly if you have others with you. Bard is a bit trickier to manage, though, since you have a class balance in Voice that is separate from your jabs, and you also have Minuet to manage for 1v1 (though you did say that wasn't of importance).
In group situations, both classes can be a high priority target. Bard because of harmonics and impatience on demand, Runewarden because of prop totem and damage/afflictions depending on spec.
As far as hunting, they both are great when artied. Runewarden can basically solo anything within reason, and Bard can put out some serious damage with the harmonics to augment (continuo, anthem, etc).
I'd go Runewarden because you have the option for more classes/expansion without needing a class slot.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.1 -
Were I you, I would leave the artie weapons alone until you've tried all the spec's out. You're talking about dropping 2100 and 1600cr on SnB and 2h respectively and you may well start fiddling with specs and realise you prefer dwc or dwb.
Your math is right on all the stat points though. As a runie, with lagua on a runeblade I don't think you need to go over 20 str (you'll be rocking 21 when you factor in fury). So you could get away with lvl1 gauntlets.
The rough runestone is worth every penny. Sketching transfix runes in sub 2 seconds is amazeballs.
Pendant is amazing, though even with level 3 you'll likely see a very limited impact until the 80's.
ETA : Artefact tree tattoo!
He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.
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Xaden said:Were I you, I would leave the artie weapons alone until you've tried all the spec's out. You're talking about dropping 2100 and 1600cr on SnB and 2h respectively and you may well start fiddling with specs and realise you prefer dwc or dwb.
Your math is right on all the stat points though. As a runie, with lagua on a runeblade I don't think you need to go over 20 str (you'll be rocking 21 when you factor in fury). So you could get away with lvl1 gauntlets.
The rough runestone is worth every penny. Sketching transfix runes in sub 2 seconds is amazeballs.
Pendant is amazing, though even with level 3 you'll likely see a very limited impact until the 80's.
ETA : Artefact tree tattoo!Can't bold what I'm really agreeing with here, but the "start fiddling with specs and realize you prefer dwc or dwb" was completely me. I went DWC runie first, hated it, switched to 2h, stayed with that for a couple months, then started talking about DWB and now I'm DWB with lvl1 morningstars, and absolutely love it.
I'd definitely agree to hold out on artie weapons until you're sure what you wanna spec towards, unless you're 100% sure you're going to use all of them. Artie weapons are a very large investment, and although worth it, make sure you know you like what you're getting.Omor Ceberek - Targossas
got gud1 -
21 strength with Fury should be fine as Runewarden, since Lagua boosts disembowel damage (if they have level one torso damage). There's a link in my signature to my old disembowel testing numbers (because I've been really lazy about posting the updated test results on the forums). No torso damage ("level 0") and level one torso damage seems to be about consistent (within a range of .2% or so, if I recall correctly) with my old tests, and Lagua seems to just be a 10% increase to the level one numbers. However, most classes have at least one way to reduce disembowel damage (I may look at doing testing to determine exactly which class defences do act as resist alls/reduce disembowel damage).Nolnor said:Ok, so here is my rough character plan. Would love comments. I'm especially unsure of the best direction to under the offensive (wielded) section and the unsure (duh) section - though feedback one anything is great.Offensive options (wielded):Longsword or broadsword - which is better? (1600) + SoA (500) = 2100Dreadblade = 1600Double flail (1600 L2) or (3200 L3)-------------------------------1600 - 3200Convienence:
Atavian Wings (2000) OR are Eagle's Wings (800) + Ring of Flying () the smarter choice?Insignia of mastery (350)Pipes x 3 (150)Wyrmskin pack (100)-------------------------------Unsure:Runic Gauntlet (350)Rough Runestone (350)
For weapons, I'd echo what others have said about deciding on a (main) specialisation before committing to them if you're only going to be buying the one set.
If you're going to be spending 3200 credits on weapons for dual blunt, I'd say going level 2 flails and morningstars is worth more than buying a pair of level three flails; difference in prep speed with morningstars when comparing forged to artefact is pretty huge in a lot of cases.
I wouldn't buy a shield of absorption if you're not going to be multiclassing (and even then, maybe not). You'd be better off looking into artefact armour and getting the absorption paragon; it's a bit more expensive but you'll also be able to benefit from it as the other three Knight specialisations, not just sword and shield, and there's a definite offensive hit from using a shield of absorption over buckler. Price on SoA is 800, not 500, I believe (was increased maybe a year ago?). For sword and shield, definitely longsword (speed is key); artefact broadsword isn't really worth buying for how little you'll use it (if you want to be effective).
Atavian wings are great, but pricey. You can get a lot of the utility from eagle's wings, including access to clouds where a lot of group skirmishes take place. Ring of flying is definitely worth the cost, I'd say it's a must buy. Insignia is also a no brainer as Knight. Pipes are cheap, no reason not to. Not sure wyrmskin pack is worth the 100 credits unless you keep a lot of items in your pack or, like me, just hate dealing with items decaying.
Runic gauntlet I would hold off on. If you decide you love totem work and/or end up having to do a ton of it, then buy it. Otherwise, not worth the credits. Runestone is definitely worth it. There's an artefact that allows you to sketch in flooded/water rooms, might be worth getting too.
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Quick note on these, I would suggest Eagle Wings plus a Ring of Flying before going straight to Atavian. Atavian is definitely a luxury, while Eagle is one of those essential things for travel and will give you access to the main clouds area (meaning you don't have to beg with puppy eyes for people to take you up there if you get left behind in a skirmish or have somebody waiting on clouds to duel you, or whatever). If you desperately want travel convenience, then knowing the location of various wormholes and purchasing a Vibrating Stick will, I think, be better than throwing down the additional 800cr for extra wing exits.Nolnor said:Atavian Wings (2000) OR are Eagle's Wings (800) + Ring of Flying () the smarter choice?Insignia of mastery (350)Pipes x 3 (150)Wyrmskin pack (100)
You can probably ditch the wyrmskin pack, it's more a convenience thing, but yes, get the insignia. In place of the wyrmskin pack I'd suggest a permanent tattoo or two - either tree or shield, both if you can hustle up another 100cr.
- (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."1
Answers
but monk is good for bashing (you hit three times so you can get three criticals) and great for group combo (kai choke is a long range attack) and not bad in a close brawl too.
magi is good for passive-ish group combat not bad for bashing
runie is a good all rounder, can ink people to make them stronger, set up totems to protect rooms, fire arrows, and still does good damage in close,
don't really know much about jester.
Hope i helped a little
Currently dwb infernal, love the flavour and how knights here don't suck. Looking for advice on how to invest 4-5k credits, with a goal of eventual PVP proficiency.
Open to Iron Elite once I'm more established, but would ideally like to bash for gold/credits (unsure how effective that is here) for future arti purchases.
Thoughts? Thanks!
Just... no.
...was....
WAS
Bastards!!
My criticals are so weak that a single critical punch does like 1% damage to mobs in a level 80-90+ area. Kicks rarely ever finish a denizen off, even with world shattering. And this is all damage I tested with a level 3 knuckle + 20 strength for max damage.
Compared to my other classes like Blademaster, Runewarden (DC, 2h, SnB), Sylvan... it's really lackluster. Even the kaido stuff doesn't make up for squishiness of leather when I try to solo tank big mobs like Balam Ahab or the Great Mhunna. You will basically find yourself lacking in both offense and defense. Neither make up for one or the other.
Thank you!
Atavian Wings (2000) OR are Eagle's Wings (800) + Ring of Flying () the smarter choice?
Also I think pacing out your artefacts will give you a greater appreciation for them. Instead of being at the peak and wishing you could improve, each time you get a new artefact you'll be like "OMG HOW DID I LIVE WITHOUT YOU?"
Longsword is better.
You actually use longsword and buckler for combat in pvp. The only time you'll use SoA in the future will likely be for classes like Bard and the Int-based classes.
edit: And dragons
Eagle's Wings (800) + Ring of Flying (400) + Brooch of Tempest (150)
In Achaea, there are two* classes of people. Those with wings, and the peasants.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
All - writing this quickly so excuse any errors or omissions. I wanted to reiterate my appreciation for the feedback you've given. It makes it infinitely easier to integrate into a new world when you experienced folks offer advice and counsel. I hear the consistent advice regarding artie weapons, so I will be forgoing those for now until I've gotten my feet wet with the various specs.
@Xaden Thanks for the stat feedback as well as the rough runestone recommendation. I wasn't sure on that one so your post gave me confidence with it. Also will look into the perma tree tattoo.
@Omar Thanks for the reinforcement regarding artie weapons.
@Antonius Thanks for the in-depth feedback regarding wounding levels and weapons. If I'm understanding correctly, when I do get artie weapons, if I was going blunt you'd recommend a set of both flails and morningstars? Is it one set for PVE and another PVP? Also, I thought artefact armour may be the best way to go, but I didn't know quite how to calculate cost of everything I needed and it also looks like I'll need an actual armoursmith involved as well? But yes, I agree if I can get the SoA rune imbedded into the armour so that I don't have to wield it that would be the smart way to go (even if it's a higher initial investment cost). Thanks for the update on the SoA price as well. I did take the value off of old forum posts as I couldn't find it listed under the help files on the web site.
You're right on the wyrmskin pack about the decay reason. I have a history of tumbling into an uncontrollable rage when I log in to see a pack decay message and my inventory has exploded all over the place. 100 credits is worth my peace of mind.
I appreciate the advice on the gauntlet as well. I thought maybe totems were much like staves in Avalon long ago. I remember spending many hours felling staves not being able to move/do most commands, so if my life was going to be like that I thought I'd reduce the time spent.
@Sarathai I think I will go eagles + ring of flying and upgrade later if needed, thanks.
@Szanthax @Tahqui I sincerely appreciate you trying to be the voices of reason in my madness - no sarcasm. I understand the rationale - artefacts usually allow you to avoid learning how some things in a game work or let you avoid struggling through some challenges; challenges that are often needed to grow properly. I won't be buying everything at once for sure, but I will be buying some convenience right away. The reason being is I've been mudding for 20+ years, spent some significant time on Lusternia on a 20,000+ credit character, and my play time is more limited nowadays. In short, I'm old and grumpy so I am going to make my life a little easier.
@Lucianus Thanks for the weapon/travel input. Seems to align with others' opinions as well!
Again, really happy how the community at large has chimed in with advice. I look forward to meeting you all in game either as allies or opponents. I know you'll be teaching me a whole lot more no matter which side you're on!
Morningstars will be both PvE and PvP, flails will be just PvP. Morningstars are your fast weapon that allows you to do the finesse pulp kills, flails are pretty much just for smashing people to pieces with damage/mangling legs after proning. Having the option to do both is worthwhile, and I think there's more of a difference between forged morningstars and level two morningstars than there is between level two flails and level three flails, so if you're spending 3200 credits you're better off buying four 800 credit weapons than two 1600 credit ones. If you only wanted to spend the 1600 credits, then I'd say forged morningstars and level two flails would be the way to go, since flail damage will be the fall back for people who are good at avoiding pulp kills (who also tend to be very good combatants with artefacts to make them harder to kill with damage).
You'll need, at a minimum, a suit of armour with an embrasure on it, and the absorption paragon to go in the embrasure. That's 1000 credits for the paragon, then the cost for the embrasure depends on how much the Legendary Blacksmith charges - I wouldn't pay more than 50k for commodities plus work, personally, since there's really not that much involved in creating the embrasure (the only issue is the huge cost involved in getting to Legendary Blacksmith, so there's not that many of them yet). If you want true artefact armour (i.e. armour that is non-decay/resetting) and/or to add more than one paragon to it, you'll need at least a level one rondel as well, so add 350 credits plus the cost of whatever other paragon(s) you want to make use of.
Implanting and uprooting totems takes a fair amount of time (how much depends on a few factors), and you can't do that much while doing it, so the gauntlet is useful if you do a lot of that. However, you could easily play Runewarden and just never do totem work that involves uprooting or implanting, so I'd only buy it if you have a surplus of credits (you have much more useful things to buy to start with) and are going to regularly benefit from it.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
You don't need level 3 weapons to do a lot of damage as a Knight. I'd definitely stick with level 1 or level 2s until you decide you really love a spec, THEN get level 3s if you want them.
Collar is 100% not necessary and a waste on a Runewarden, you do physical damage, not magical.
Buckawns is almost worthless now, next to no one uses web tattoos or bombs. If they start to use them on you, you can always pick that up later.
Longsword is the artefact you want as a S&B knight.
Atavian wings are nice, but eagle's wings are fine and RoF is great.
You're going to want morningstars over flails for weapons as DWB. Flails definitely have good use, but you're going to be using stars more.
Shield of Absorption is also 800 credits, not 500, and isn't going to be too useful for you as a Knight (you can use it in S&B, but buckler makes your offense better).
@Makarios Good to know. Perhaps down the line it'll be worth picking up or if I ever multiclass it may become a need, but given it only affects one skill I agree with you that my initial credit investment could be used on things with a higher rate of return. Thanks!