Shrine Changes!

Makarios

Huh, perhaps I forgot it in the announce. A shrine auto consecrates half an hour after being desecrated currently.

Kinilan

Like a whore with a fistfull of wetnaps after a long sloppy night.

Szanthax

Kinilan said:

Like a whore with a fistfull of wetnaps after a long sloppy night.

Mom?

Quisse

This is pleasing.

Morthif

Quisse said:

This is pleasing.

YOU ARE INDIFFERENT !

Saeva

It was desecrated and defiled down to medium. Resanctified to large and it was somehow already conrsecrated agin? Also yeah, @Farrah, I saw you guys defiling then the message changes to show you as deserting lol... I didn't know how accurate that was. Something is definitely tweaky

Aesi

Saeva said:

It was desecrated and defiled down to medium. Resanctified to large and it was somehow already conrsecrated agin? Also yeah, @Farrah, I saw you guys defiling then the message changes to show you as deserting lol... I didn't know how accurate that was. Something is definitely tweaky

Haha we were running around black rock killing things then we get back and are like WTF? 

Was bizarre!

Jarrod

I think the new changes to shrines are a great step in the right direction. A few of the things I personally would like to see/ideas I had to tweak or add are primarily focused on making defiling a planned thing, not something an individual does because they're bored and want to annoy another faction.

• I like the idea of auto-consecration, but I think 30 minutes is too long. I'd prefer something where if the person or group that desecrated leave a 2-room radius around the shrine, it consecrates in 5 minutes, possibly less. This gives the defiling side an area they have to defend, instead of just poking at the shrine for the next 30 minutes.
• Give an Order option that optionally drains essence to gradually sanctify any consecrated shrine. Make it require 150% or 200% of the standard essence to restore the shrine to full that it would take from offering to sanctify. This means you don't have to send people hunting to sanctify, you can just offer when you hunt and not have to worry about saving corpses for sanctify. Can be something toggle-able by someone of appropriate Order rank.
• To limit the spread of shrines that might result from giving the defending side more advantages, this would best come in with the cap to the number of shrines in the world change.

The main goal of these changes is to further push 'shrine conflict' to be actual conflict. Given that only certain people can raise/consecrate, but -anyone- can defile/desecrate, further putting the burden on the defenders to drop what they're doing to defend, hunt, and sanctify in response to a defilement, especially if the defilers get away and you have to continue protecting the shrine from hit and run defilers is a bit too much in my opinion. You take the area around the shrine and hold it as a small group, or you automatically lose your progress completely within 10 minutes of failing.

Atalkez

I thought anyone from the Order could consecrate, did that get changed?

Jarrod

May be the case, but that's still "Order members" versus "anyone".

Halos

Any member of an Order can consecrate. I think when he says 'only certain people' he's referring to Ordermembers as opposed to the general population of a theological city which may also have a vested interest in protecting patron shrines but can't raise or consecrate them. Very much outnumbered by possible defilers/desecraters, especially in a heavily aligned faction like Mhaldor's.

edit: Oops. What Jarrod said

Aerek

Jarrod said:

May be the case, but that's still "Order members" versus "anyone".

I like your ideas overall, my only caveat is that I don't think the system should cater too heavily to dormant orders. If I understand the mechanics, your ideas mean that the only time an order member is ever be required is to A. announce the defiling taking place, and B. re-raise a shrine if one is actually dusted. If shrines auto-consecrated quickly, order members wouldn't be required to re-consecrate as long as non-order members could chase off the aggressors, which means an AFK order member calling out defilings and a posse of non-order mercenaries (who can sanctify) can essentially maintain a dormant orders' shrine network with no effort from the actual order beyond re-raising when necessary.

That's convenient in Mhaldor's (or any order-centric city's) case, but I personally think the system should require active, present order members to maintain and protect shrines. I know it's hard on Mhaldor at the moment, but I don't think the system should be designed in a manner where dormant orders can be sustained by non-order members. That's just a reality of orders, when their God goes dormant, they lose influence, city Patron or not.

Past that, I recognize the issues you're pointing out, and I think your ideas are on a good track.

Aegoth

time2split Sartan

Morthif

Maybe have consecrate have a low daily essence cost, taken from the divine's stores not corpses, to stay active? If a shrine goes X amount of time without being consecrated it gets destroyed? To help reduce dormant order shrines being littered all over. 

Kiet

Aerek said:

Jarrod said:

May be the case, but that's still "Order members" versus "anyone".

I like your ideas overall, my only caveat is that I don't think the system should cater too heavily to dormant orders. If I understand the mechanics, your ideas mean that the only time an order member is ever be required is to A. announce the defiling taking place, and B. re-raise a shrine if one is actually dusted. If shrines auto-consecrated quickly, order members wouldn't be required to re-consecrate as long as non-order members could chase off the aggressors, which means an AFK order member calling out defilings and a posse of non-order mercenaries (who can sanctify) can essentially maintain a dormant orders' shrine network with no effort from the actual order beyond re-raising when necessary.

That's convenient in Mhaldor's (or any order-centric city's) case, but I personally think the system should require active, present order members to maintain and protect shrines. I know it's hard on Mhaldor at the moment, but I don't think the system should be designed in a manner where dormant orders can be sustained by non-order members. That's just a reality of orders, when their God goes dormant, they lose influence, city Patron or not.

Past that, I recognize the issues you're pointing out, and I think your ideas are on a good track.

You can't penalize dormant orders unless you want to gut the reliance on orders that two of the cities have. And I'm fairly sure most of the members of those cities and the administration  are against that.

Shirszae

Personally, I don't think Orders should be penalised further for having their Patrons dormant. It is hard enough on an Order (and often on its city, in the case of Mhaldor) as it is.

Jarrod

Aerek said:

Jarrod said:

May be the case, but that's still "Order members" versus "anyone".

I like your ideas overall, my only caveat is that I don't think the system should cater too heavily to dormant orders. If I understand the mechanics, your ideas mean that the only time an order member is ever be required is to A. announce the defiling taking place, and B. re-raise a shrine if one is actually dusted. If shrines auto-consecrated quickly, order members wouldn't be required to re-consecrate as long as non-order members could chase off the aggressors, which means an AFK order member calling out defilings and a posse of non-order mercenaries (who can sanctify) can essentially maintain a dormant orders' shrine network with no effort from the actual order beyond re-raising when necessary.

That's convenient in Mhaldor's (or any order-centric city's) case, but I personally think the system should require active, present order members to maintain and protect shrines. I know it's hard on Mhaldor at the moment, but I don't think the system should be designed in a manner where dormant orders can be sustained by non-order members. That's just a reality of orders, when their God goes dormant, they lose influence, city Patron or not.

Past that, I recognize the issues you're pointing out, and I think your ideas are on a good track.

Very good points. The main thing to me is that Orders that aren't city-centric generally aren't involved in big back and forths with shrines. As it is currently, what you're saying is still 100% possible, it just takes 30 minutes to accomplish instead of a shorter time frame. The assumption that 1) People don't already do this in some cities and 2) People would suddenly start setting up triggers to do so in response to this is a bit odd, because I don't believe it changes the mechanics enough to cause a shift in player willingness to auto-report that kind of thing.

Obviously I don't think my ideas are perfect, but one of the main goals of what I'm proposing, at least for me, is that I don't think being an Order member should be a tedious job. Yes, it will of course come with more responsibilities, more demands on the player/character to devote their time to Order things. However, Orders should be primarily roleplay extensions of your character in that sense, not a requirement that keeps you from doing things like sailing trade routes, exploring northern areas/Meropis, etc,  without regularly dropping what you're doing to trek back to the mainland just to consecrate a shrine that's going to be desecrated again in 10m because that's just the mood someone is in.

Inuad

Aerek said:

but I personally think the system should require active, present order members to maintain and protect shrines. I know it's hard on Mhaldor at the moment, but I don't think the system should be designed in a manner where dormant orders can be sustained by non-order members. That's just a reality of orders, when their God goes dormant, they lose influence, city Patron or not. 

Honestly, if a constant essence drain allowed shrines to be re-sanctified at a steep price (e.g. 400% essence cost or more), I'm not sure how that would be much different than re-raising shrines if they eventually drop. The essence used to raise shrines can already be sustained by non-order members, so to me I don't really see much difference. It might even be preferable for a dormant order to re-raise shrines, especially if the auto-sanctify cost would end up being greater than the cost to raise a new shrine.

If a group is intent on destroying a shrine, this auto-sanctification wouldn't really prevent the shrine from dropping on its own (and really, this feature should shut off if a shrine is actively being defiled). So protection of shrines would still require active participation from order members.