Shrine Changes!

Shirszae

Marisella said:

With this addition, does it mean all current shrines are by default consecrated, or do we have to run around and consecrate existing shrines now?

Run around!

Marisella

I think it would be good to get a lognote on the logs that informs the Order which shrine has been consecrated, and which has been desecrated.

Tahquil

How does the 'cause' work for groups of people dropping shrines now? Is only the single person defiling open for attack or are the four other people there standing about cheering them on open for attack as well?

Aktillum

@Makarios @Nicola These changes look awesome for shrine wars etc, but won't the changes turn shrines into uber-powerful city defense mechanisms? If it takes 1 minute to desecrate a shrine, and then only 1 person may defile the shrine at a time, that gives cities a much larger of window of opportunity to worldburn the crap out of raiders.

Nicola

@Aktillum The further changes noted at the end of the announce post and this quote by Makarios should cover your concerns.

Makarios said:

Yeah, we'd like shrines to be a bit more relevant other than as a mobile worldburn platform, but if that is to happen there would definitely need to be a cap per order.

Aktillum

Nicola said:

@Aktillum The further changes noted at the end of the announce post and this quote by Makarios should cover your concerns.

Makarios said:

Yeah, we'd like shrines to be a bit more relevant other than as a mobile worldburn platform, but if that is to happen there would definitely need to be a cap per order.

I saw that bit, I'm still a little concerned though. It'd have to be quite a small limit to avoid the situation I described, because cities would likely just decide that they'll just keep all their Patron shrines inside their cities. I'm not trying to rain on the parade here, I really do love the changes. Just trying to think of how we could avoid raid parties being wiped out by a city-wide shrine network, if a city decided to only keep shrines inside their city (Mhaldor and Targossas, for instance, would likely go that route).

I'd have to see the new balance for defiling and exactly how long it takes to destroy a shrine, my main concern is that it's always been a priority to immediately drop any shrines near any room in a city your group is raiding, and if it takes around 2 minutes to drop a shrine now..ouch. So if a cap were instated, it'd need to be like 5 shrines per Order. I dunno, even then a city could probably cover their most vulnerable spots.

Maybe an alternative could be something like shrines dropping faster inside cities? Meh that would be clunky. I dunno! But really I'm happy to see these changes and how it all plays out

Jonathin

Cap per area that declines as you get further from the master shrine area. ex: targ gets 5. Reaches gets 4. Everywhere else gets 3. (Arbitrary numbers)

I also have no idea if this is even feasible because I don't know where all the master shrines are, but you all get the gist of it.

Aerek

I don't really think shrines-as-defenses is a bad thing. If an order wants to use up their shrine allotment to carpet a city in a defensive network, I think that's a valid strategy. If a city -doesn't- want to do that so they maintain a presence out in the world or raise shrines as an offensive weapon, that's also a valid strategy.

I realize Worldburn is insane and could be difficult to counter in the coming days if cities choose to blanket their territory, but I see that as a problem with Worldburn, itself. Let's not design shrines around Worldburn--everyone hates it anyway--let's design Worldburn around shrines. This might be the point where Worldburn finally becomes more reasonable.

Aktillum

Valid points @Aerek. My only other suggestion would be if maybe adding a second method of defiling that doesn't involve mob corpses - a 'group channeling' method. If you have 8+ people, they could channel energy to defiling a shrine, and it would only takes 15 seconds to drop it. This would make it so that single-person defilers would be effected by the new changes, but create a way for large groups to quickly dismantle shrines inside cities. And you could create the reverse as well - allow a group of 3 or 5 Order members to channel raising a shrine with no mobs necessary.

Kayeil

I hope when the limit is announced that we have an oppurtunity to dismantle the ones that go over the limit that we have decided on getting rid of instead of wiping out all the shrines and making everyone start over.

Shirszae

From the way @Makarios worded it, it sounded like Orders will be able to decide what shrines they want to keep. I also doubt they would just destroy every shrine everywhere, at least not without giving people opportunity to choose first.

Kayeil

Shirszae said:

From the way @Makarios worded it, it sounded like Orders will be able to decide what shrines they want to keep. I also doubt they would just destroy every shrine everywhere, at least not without giving people opportunity to choose first.

Just expressing this because during the Bal'met event Orders had to dismantle shrines all over and then start over (if their order survived). Was a pain in the butt.

Kakotas

This will be interesting now what would make it more interesting is say limiting the number of shrines a given order can have in a city. So Order X can only have 2 shrines in the same given city/state and they still count against the overall total. That will make it a gamble do we place them in safe protected cities where they worldburn and defend or do we place them where we have a better chance at essence or on different continents.

Aesgar

My only concern, as of now, is the number of active orders per city playing a role. 

For example, Targossas and Eleusis will have the comparative advantage to Mhaldor/Ashtan due to when the amount of shrines able to be raised becomes limited, they can divvy up the load and then expand their network elsewhere.

Other than that looks awesome!

(@Antonius I did enjoy our last hurrah the other night though)

Utianima

Mizik said:

That doesn't matter. If I'm not online then I don't care. 

It's the @Utianima etc rabble who have no interest in fighting that were bothersome. Now they'll get nothing done without a fight!

For my intents and purposes this just eliminated non coms.

@Mizik called me rabble. Woot

Utianima

Morthif said:

Havent they refused to touch this dozens of times already?

Yeah, they have. Won't happen.

Kayeil

On second thought, nevermind.

Lyrin

People have to stay in the room for a whole minute?   Oh god the HOLOCAUSTS

Kiet

Aesgar said:

My only concern, as of now, is the number of active orders per city playing a role. 

For example, Targossas and Eleusis will have the comparative advantage to Mhaldor/Ashtan due to when the amount of shrines able to be raised becomes limited, they can divvy up the load and then expand their network elsewhere.

Other than that looks awesome!

(@Antonius I did enjoy our last hurrah the other night though)

This is the only real concern I have with this too. Unless the limit is absurdly high, no order's gonna be able to cover the entire city with shrines. But two orders might get close!

Shirszae

Kiet said:

Aesgar said:

My only concern, as of now, is the number of active orders per city playing a role. 

For example, Targossas and Eleusis will have the comparative advantage to Mhaldor/Ashtan due to when the amount of shrines able to be raised becomes limited, they can divvy up the load and then expand their network elsewhere.

Other than that looks awesome!

(@Antonius I did enjoy our last hurrah the other night though)

This is the only real concern I have with this too. Unless the limit is absurdly high, no order's gonna be able to cover the entire city with shrines. But two orders might get close!

Its fine, @Kiet. You can come back to Eleusis and plaugh at cities that are backed with just one Order along with the rest of us

Tahquil

Desecrated/consecrated and neutral shrines should all have slightly different room descriptions.
Example -

Consecrated
Above a bowl of bronze, a looped jade ribbon twists in the air on an unending and paradoxical path.

Desecrated
Above a bowl of bronze, a sliced ruby ribbon flutters about erratically as it attempts to mend itself.

Exelethril

Kiet said:

Aesgar said:

My only concern, as of now, is the number of active orders per city playing a role. 

For example, Targossas and Eleusis will have the comparative advantage to Mhaldor/Ashtan due to when the amount of shrines able to be raised becomes limited, they can divvy up the load and then expand their network elsewhere.

Other than that looks awesome!

(@Antonius I did enjoy our last hurrah the other night though)

This is the only real concern I have with this too. Unless the limit is absurdly high, no order's gonna be able to cover the entire city with shrines. But two orders might get close!

Clearly you guys just need to split Sartan in two again.

Kiet

Unironically agree with that

Antonius

Exelethril said:

Kiet said:

Aesgar said:

My only concern, as of now, is the number of active orders per city playing a role. 

For example, Targossas and Eleusis will have the comparative advantage to Mhaldor/Ashtan due to when the amount of shrines able to be raised becomes limited, they can divvy up the load and then expand their network elsewhere.

Other than that looks awesome!

(@Antonius I did enjoy our last hurrah the other night though)

This is the only real concern I have with this too. Unless the limit is absurdly high, no order's gonna be able to cover the entire city with shrines. But two orders might get close!

Clearly you guys just need to split Sartan in two again.

If they keep splitting and re-forming Sartan there won't be anything left.

Ahmet

Exelethril said:

Kiet said:

Aesgar said:

My only concern, as of now, is the number of active orders per city playing a role. 

For example, Targossas and Eleusis will have the comparative advantage to Mhaldor/Ashtan due to when the amount of shrines able to be raised becomes limited, they can divvy up the load and then expand their network elsewhere.

Other than that looks awesome!

(@Antonius I did enjoy our last hurrah the other night though)

This is the only real concern I have with this too. Unless the limit is absurdly high, no order's gonna be able to cover the entire city with shrines. But two orders might get close!

Clearly you guys just need to split Sartan in two again.

Or merge Deucora.

Marisella

Antonius said:

Exelethril said:

Kiet said:

Aesgar said:

My only concern, as of now, is the number of active orders per city playing a role. 

For example, Targossas and Eleusis will have the comparative advantage to Mhaldor/Ashtan due to when the amount of shrines able to be raised becomes limited, they can divvy up the load and then expand their network elsewhere.

Other than that looks awesome!

(@Antonius I did enjoy our last hurrah the other night though)

This is the only real concern I have with this too. Unless the limit is absurdly high, no order's gonna be able to cover the entire city with shrines. But two orders might get close!

Clearly you guys just need to split Sartan in two again.

If they keep splitting and re-forming Sartan there won't be anything left.

Would also split the city more! 

Rangor

Could also split the city in two. Upper Mhaldor and Lower Mhaldor. Shaitan2 gets one and Apollyon2 gets the other.

Melodie

Like we don'the struggle with population enough already!

Ainly

Seems to me that shrines are going to be harder to destroy but no harder to raise.  Someone could put in a lot of effort to drop a single shrine just to have one raised easily immediately after.  How about putting a debuff in a room where a shrine was destroyed, making it impossible to raise another shrine there for a period of time. Hi @Melodie.

Aesi

Ainly said:

Seems to me that shrines are going to be harder to destroy but no harder to raise.  Someone could put in a lot of effort to drop a single shrine just to have one raised easily immediately after.  How about putting a debuff in a room where a shrine was destroyed, making it impossible to raise another shrine there for a period of time. Hi @Melodie.

I'm sorry but wasn't this the point? 

If if they want to raise again right away, why not? More shrine conflict. More essence drain on your enemies.

Its just more meaningful and you have a chance to respond now.