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best bashing classes?

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  • QwynQwyn Member Posts: 247 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    From a new Achaean player's view, jester feels good. I don't know how speed compares to other classes, but I feel like I can do a lot with little investment. AFAIK you only need to trans pranks for attack damage. Tarot means I can self heal as well as follow others around and assist. With only one or two class skill sets learned I can also help in team fights, plus I have illusions for fun RP. You also have a gallop clone and alternatives to tumble, which saves on tertiary skill set investments off the bat, and you can wear decent armour which helps mitigate a lack of lessons in avoidance. It may not be the best bashing class overall but it feels very versatile and fun for a pretty cheap lesson cost. 
  • FinkleFinkle Member Posts: 107 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    If you have trans puppetry and dragon buddies you can get them to help you with puppet leech as well.
    Qwyn
  • QwynQwyn Member Posts: 247 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Well I just transed puppetry. Heeeeey Finkle, you're a dragon riiight? :)
  • FinkleFinkle Member Posts: 107 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I heard if you put a stick with bread dangling from the front Finkle will hunt for ages trying to get to it.
    QwynUtianimaTelendrieth
  • LucianusLucianus Member Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited April 2016
    Qwyn said:
    From a new Achaean player's view, jester feels good. I don't know how speed compares to other classes, but I feel like I can do a lot with little investment. AFAIK you only need to trans pranks for attack damage. Tarot means I can self heal as well as follow others around and assist. With only one or two class skill sets learned I can also help in team fights, plus I have illusions for fun RP. You also have a gallop clone and alternatives to tumble, which saves on tertiary skill set investments off the bat, and you can wear decent armour which helps mitigate a lack of lessons in avoidance. It may not be the best bashing class overall but it feels very versatile and fun for a pretty cheap lesson cost. 
    Had a friend who recently went from Blademaster to Jester. He feels it is loads faster than Blademaster. Plus Leech... doesn't have to feel left out whenever I tell him to stand back whenever we face giant group stacks where he's too squishy to handle.

    *edit* Oh, and empress is amazing. He can summon the group leader of a party and save the leader and everybody following him/her.
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  • SaeaSaea Member Posts: 35 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Leech is great if you hang out with a lot of Dragons who don't care about XP.

    Just don't play it for the 1v1 if you don't know what you're doing (like I don't) :s The group combat with jester is pretty simple and fun, since you can still be useful just using the tarotry skillset.
    Utianima
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 5,047 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Saea said:
    Leech is great if you hang out with a lot of Dragons who don't care about XP.

    Just don't play it for the 1v1 if you don't know what you're doing (like I don't) :s The group combat with jester is pretty simple and fun, since you can still be useful just using the tarotry skillset.
    Have Aeon. Will travel.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    UtianimaAeshTelendriethAnedhel
  • SheveradSheverad Member Posts: 8
    edited April 2016
    With the retirement I've been thinking more actively into going back to the game and investing in some artifacts and race/class change for bashing to dragon, so this discussion is really helpful.

    But you generally see what is great without arties, what is great with all the arties you can get, but what about which classes can have a great potential with minimal investment? Let us discount the health/regen/sip/crit etc stuff one would probably get on any class and focus just on weapons, misc, offensive and SoA or not.

    I mean, to do great with a caster (let's say magi) you'd need something like SoA and Diadem and Collar and that's a lot really on creds. On the other hand, a bard could do great with just the rapier and the SoA, right?

    So how much investment would some classes need to be great in general (reach acceptable speech/survivability) taking into account that and certain important class abilities?
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You only need diadem for most eq classes since no eq classes 'need' the damage from collar to be viable these days. That said, diadem is a lot pricier than a level 2 weapon, and most weapon classes only need a level 2, level 3 is a luxury.

    Classes that need a main attribute require much more of an investment, whereas classes that can con spec require less. Obviously, classes with no offensive arties can just con spec AND go for tanking arties, allowing the greatest potential with minimal investment.

    The classes I wouldn't strongly recommend without arties but which would be really good with only one or two arties would likely be priest, occultist, sylvan (though this one prolly fine unartied tbh), any knight, bard.
    UtianimaSheverad
  • LucianoLuciano Member Posts: 10
    So these are hard discussions IMO, is mentioned my own spot, because at the time people largely believed Bard was horrible, they believed serpents were bad too.  

    Some people did the math and got the artes it would take to turn those into formidable classes.  I used to have tuners on all the things I bashed, so I showed up in time to clear areas again and I cleared in a specific order backwards from the way people normally went, this lead to me being able control the hunt so to speak, and I made dragon pretty fast with a class people put behind everything else.  

    No class by itself will make you good or bad, it's how you take control of your time in game and use the class abilities.  The person who can bash for two more hours a day on a "bad bashing class" will beat you on "the best bashing class" to dragon by week's because they'll get two-three extra rounds than you got, per day.  From what I remember after level 97 it's pretty much auto pilot, no matter the class.

    In short, play a class you like or enjoy bashing with, mainly because it won't be #1 forever, it'll eventually be "re-balanced".  Notice the top 25 ranked people, it's not all one class. :)
    UtianimaLucianusSheveradDochitha
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kiet said:
    You only need diadem for most eq classes since no eq classes 'need' the damage from collar to be viable these days. That said, diadem is a lot pricier than a level 2 weapon, and most weapon classes only need a level 2, level 3 is a luxury.

    Classes that need a main attribute require much more of an investment, whereas classes that can con spec require less. Obviously, classes with no offensive arties can just con spec AND go for tanking arties, allowing the greatest potential with minimal investment.

    The classes I wouldn't strongly recommend without arties but which would be really good with only one or two arties would likely be priest, occultist, sylvan (though this one prolly fine unartied tbh), any knight, bard.
    Btw this was more about pvp because I thought this was the 1v1 thread OOPS
    Shirszae
  • SheveradSheverad Member Posts: 8
    Thanks for that info, it really looks like bard would be very efficient with just a few arties. I always loved serpents though, garotting and wormholes and all that sounds fun, and I was wondering what kind of artifacts would be best to grab at first since you have to go full on dex spec for bashing. I would guess SoA and sip and health stuff and leave the lash for later, eh? :)
  • DaironDairon Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I would definitely suggest a level 2 lash if you can afford it. 
    I can't give you the exact numbers though. 

    I'd suggest a SoA, sip/con/bracelet combination, level 2 lash (3 is much better), a dirk and bow if you have any interest in pvp. 

    Crit pendant also helps a ton for hunting. As long as you aren't trying to tank Vertani or any other high level areas, that should be good enough to breeze you through until early 90's. 
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,413 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited May 2016
    @Penwize is hunting Fissure as serpent. Clearing it in record time. 

    Hunting is fun, while ppl think it is just pressing F2 over and over, the way you hit, sip, use br, moss, etc will put you under over over the top.

    Penwize also hunts different places depending on what class he is.

    If you can find areas that suits your class/health/circumstances and optimize based on that, you will be OP hunting.  
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,378 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dochitha said:
    @Penwize is hunting Fissure as serpent. Clearing it in record time. 
    He could hunt gods at this rate.


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
  • LucianoLuciano Member Posts: 10
    I at one time made the decision I would never be a class where I could buy most of their skills as another class, so serpent was never really a thought in my head for best anything :)
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    Luciano said:
    I at one time made the decision I would never be a class where I could buy most of their skills as another class, so serpent was never really a thought in my head for best anything :)
    If people had now what we had in 2008.. there would only be serpents



  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    It's just never crossed my mind to not hunt in Dragon...someone teach me to hunt faster



  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,542 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Luciano said:
    I at one time made the decision I would never be a class where I could buy most of their skills as another class, so serpent was never really a thought in my head for best anything :)
    Huh.  Please point to me where I can buy the phase, evade, ghost, hide, pacing, await, shadow, worm splice, snipe, listen, lipread and pinshot arties!

    (And that's just from one of their three skill sets.)
    ShirszaeAhmetExelethrilUtianima
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Penwize said:
    Luciano said:
    I at one time made the decision I would never be a class where I could buy most of their skills as another class, so serpent was never really a thought in my head for best anything :)
    Huh.  Please point to me where I can buy the phase, evade, ghost, hide, pacing, await, shadow, worm splice, snipe, listen, lipread and pinshot arties!

    (And that's just from one of their three skill sets.)
    To hell with serpent. I want to buy fullsense, mindnet and mind command.
    Huh. Neat.
    ExelethrilCooperLucianoUtianima
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    Ahmet said:
    Penwize said:
    Luciano said:
    I at one time made the decision I would never be a class where I could buy most of their skills as another class, so serpent was never really a thought in my head for best anything :)
    Huh.  Please point to me where I can buy the phase, evade, ghost, hide, pacing, await, shadow, worm splice, snipe, listen, lipread and pinshot arties!

    (And that's just from one of their three skill sets.)
    To hell with serpent. I want to buy fullsense, mindnet and mind command.
    I just bought them all.



  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,797 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Good lord to be an infernal with Evade. Flavor for days, become the new Infernal Wraith and make @Batista proud

    Batista
  • DortheronDortheron Member Posts: 343 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Ahmet said:
    Penwize said:
    Luciano said:
    I at one time made the decision I would never be a class where I could buy most of their skills as another class, so serpent was never really a thought in my head for best anything :)
    Huh.  Please point to me where I can buy the phase, evade, ghost, hide, pacing, await, shadow, worm splice, snipe, listen, lipread and pinshot arties!

    (And that's just from one of their three skill sets.)
    To hell with serpent. I want to buy fullsense, mindnet and mind command.
    Fullsense really is the shit. I'm always a little bit sad when I type out fullsense when I'm drag/alting and I see "You have no knowledge of that telepathic ability." :'(
    You know, that one thing at that one place, with that one person.

    Yea, that one!
    Utianima
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    Dortheron said:
    Ahmet said:
    Penwize said:
    Luciano said:
    I at one time made the decision I would never be a class where I could buy most of their skills as another class, so serpent was never really a thought in my head for best anything :)
    Huh.  Please point to me where I can buy the phase, evade, ghost, hide, pacing, await, shadow, worm splice, snipe, listen, lipread and pinshot arties!

    (And that's just from one of their three skill sets.)
    To hell with serpent. I want to buy fullsense, mindnet and mind command.
    Fullsense really is the shit. I'm always a little bit sad when I type out fullsense when I'm drag/alting and I see "You have no knowledge of that telepathic ability." :'(
    You said drag... I thought you meant something totally different



    AerekLucianoTelendrieth
  • AesgarAesgar Member Posts: 450 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    So now that some time has passed for the PvE changes to set in. What's the general consensus on this thread?

    1. Best class for hunting unartied.

    2. Best class for hunting with minimal artefact investment. (If so, specify the artefacts required)
  • AesiAesi Member Posts: 1,222 @ - Epic Achaean
    Unartied I think Runewarden is good still despite a debuff, considering runicarmour and self runes.

    Artied, at a guess, I'd say Bard @Antonius can attest, not sure how exactly artied one needs to be but he raves the hunting.
    Aesgar
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Paladin is pretty great. Battlerage is the most useful I've seen, you get a con boost and strength boost built in, and only sword-and-shield has any damage concerns (longsword damage is fine, the shield is a bit terrible, specially when razeslashing). If you end up picking up any arties, Paladin gets really shiny (SoA, artie weapons, critical hit pendants all make a noticeable difference, which is rewarding). 

    The only thing I'd say is that Paladin gets much much better as you get higher in level. Probably not worth it to take 2h anywhere under 90, but after that, it's probably the best hunting spec I've tried (specially if you're human or have critical rate boosts of some kind). Still, DWC is good pretty much no matter what level you are (quick balances make for easier escapes and you make rage pretty fast). 
    Aesgar
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Unartied, probably Runewarden, Paladin, or Sylvan.

    Artied, either Serpent or Bard.
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  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I'd likely agree with Sarathai. If you're picking a single class, and buying all the artefacts possible for it, I'd say Bard hands down. If, however, you're willing to pick up at least two classes (and buy all of the necessary artefacts for it), switching between Bard and Serpent is the best of both worlds.

    Serpent is really, really good offensively, but you have to sacrifice a lot of constitution to get there, so it only really shines (for me, personally) in areas where I don't need a lot of ability to tank.

    Bard steamrolls everything even as con spec, isn't much slower than Serpent (and is much faster in areas where you have to hit and run a lot as Serpent), and has a ton of extra perks that mean basically nothing slows you down; dwinnu deals with web, cantata means shield doesn't matter at all, and harmonics cover random afflictions, mana usage and give a surprising amount of tanking ability.

  • RyzethRyzeth Member Posts: 1,105 @ - Epic Achaean
    Antonius said:

    Serpent is really, really good offensively, but you have to sacrifice a lot of constitution to get there, so it only really shines (for me, personally) in areas where I don't need a lot of ability to tank.

    I'd say this depends on how much you're spending... Lala has 6000hp with 19 dex / lv2 lash, it's kinda dirty to watch her bash in Serpent. Only thing she really had to hit and run a few times, was Mhunna's room, cause you can't crit him.

    Bard steamrolls everything even as con spec, isn't much slower than Serpent (and is much faster in areas where you have to hit and run a lot as Serpent), and has a ton of extra perks that mean basically nothing slows you down; dwinnu deals with web, cantata means shield doesn't matter at all, and harmonics cover random afflictions, mana usage and give a surprising amount of tanking ability.

    100% agree here, though. I'm only 11 str / lv2 rapier / soa and I can take things pretty comfortably. If I had more str and tuning fork / pendulum for perma harmonics while bashing (cbf'd setting it up without them), it'd be amazing. That's not even counting health/sip arties.


    Utianima
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