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A small tweak

GamdenGamden ✭✭✭ - DistinguishedMember Posts: 225 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

ANNOUNCE NEWS #4520 (03/04/2016 at 18:42)

From : Tecton the Terraformer

To : Everyone

Subject: Seamonster tweaks

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A small tweak to seamonsters has just gone live: We've increased the (per-ship) time between seamonster spawning in the low-level areas. The rest of the more challenging zones remain unchanged.

Penned by My hand on the 1st of Ero, in the year 707 AF.


I am really not happy with this change.

As a dragon i can make easily between 25-35k in an hour hunting.

Before this 'small' change, I received 35k in an hour from monsters in the 'kiddie pool'(5 monsters in a hour).The difference is, I still need to subtract the cost of ammo.

For wardiscs its 275 gold per disc.20 per discs per monster, is equal to 5500 gold cost.You get 7000 per monster, making 1500 gold in profit.

For darts is 400 gold per dart.20 per monster is equal to 8000 per monster.You get 7000 per monster, losing 1000 gold per kill.

(If you dont have a 200cr rack or friends that can give you free ammo)


After this change, the spawn time is now double. That mean 1 monster every 20 minutes.

3 monsters in an hour(If you strike the spawn perfectly)A profit of 4500 in an hour, or if you get ammo for free..21 000 gold in an hour.

Not very rewarding for non bashers that loves and prefers the sea.


Yes , some will remark that some captains only sit there and keep the area empty,wrong..cause monsters spawn PER ship..I did some hunting with other ships, we still made our gold each.


Guess I'll go back to hunting in dragon for now



ShirszaeAnariaCzanthria
«13

Comments

  • RyzethRyzeth Member Posts: 1,105 @ - Epic Achaean
    The game really doesn't need more ways to generate gold. It needs more ways to -spend- it, on things that are actually meaningful... Mining is not a reliable sink, people who do it correctly will always make mass bank on what they mine/re-use.

    There's already a significant number of people who have hundreds (and some have thousands) or credits worth of gold just sitting in their bank/pack. I'm sitting on 900k, after buying close to 250 credits. And that'd be considered 'poor' by some people's standards, these days.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Medium+ monsters still spawn the same, this was likely put in so people don't just do the equivalent of grinding imps to dragon
    ShirszaeAerekSaeva
  • GamdenGamden ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Ryzeth said:
    "The game really doesn't need more ways to generate gold."


    Different strokes for different folks, I don't think we generate more, just alternatively to bashing.
    Shops,design ext..all ways to make gold

    This is just on option for us sea-dogs.It was rather.

  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,417 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Does anybody every do anything because it's fun any more, or is it always just grinding for gold?
    image
    HellenShimi
  • RyzethRyzeth Member Posts: 1,105 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited March 2016
    I think this thread answered that question. Something can only be fun if they get a ton of gold from it, evidently.
  • GamdenGamden ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Fun?whats that?

    Can I sell it for gold?

    Aodfionn
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sobriquet said:
    Does anybody every do anything because it's fun any more, or is it always just grinding for gold?
    We hunt seamonsters for fun all the time! The gold is pretty awful and the xp is ok but not great, but it's fun to take novices out to the sea.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I will admit that it is fun. However, in some way it is as much of a grind as bashing. It is only fair it has something comparable in terms of rewards.

    Fun doesn't refill health vials. Or buys ammo.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    GamdenMamiAnariaElowin
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 5,038 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    I don't think expecting a equitable gold/time spent:earned ratio to bashing is an unfair expectation, though, regardless of the gold-sinks available in the game.

    There aren't enough people that hunt sea-monsters regularly to kick out the "it's almost good enough gold" crowd. All of these seafaring changes were to get more involvement into the seas, so any change that could potentially revert that influx should be viewed and thought about carefully. Gamden isn't asking to make insane gold per kill, he's just asking that it still be made to be worth the time put into it.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    ShirszaeGamdenSiduriElowin
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,374 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I hunt for fun! I mean, if I was looking for easy gold I wouldn't be doing it in a cutter.
    Shirszae
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I mean, you can still make decent gold though. Just hunt more than the tiny monsters.
    Saeva
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Comparing what gold you can make more bashing as a dragon compared to hunting in the paddling pool is not really fair.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    KayeilKietSkyeExelethril
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Klendathu said:
    Comparing what gold you can make more bashing as a dragon compared to hunting in the paddling pool is not really fair.
    Exactly. The tiny monsters aren't even remotely risky, it's like bashing manara and wanting Annwyn level gold
    KayeilSarathaiSaeva
  • GamdenGamden ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    And hunting in dragon at tenwat,tir or any other common place IS risky?

  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    Grukai can be risky, so can Ducal guards.
    Annwyn.
    Underworld.
    Delos guards, even Seragorn dies to there every so often.
    Azdun Catacombs (the very lower part)
    Prin? One of those islands with painful as f- mobs. Probably Prin.
    Even Istarion can be deadly, as evident by deathsight.

    Also depends on how artifacted / careless you're being. Run into Rakwor when there's 4 guards sitting there. Shit is gonna hurt. Klendathu's comparison is pretty spot-on. 

    PS edit: Tenwat isn't a dragon-level area, it's like 75-85+ it just happens to give very nice gold, so dragons hunt it all the time.

  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,054 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tiny monsters in a strider is basically a zero risk affair. And as you have said, the sea monster spawn is on a per-ship basis, unlike if you were to go to Tenwat/Tir/Sirocco where you pray hard that everyone else got a real life and hasn't already bashed out the place. Your seafaring income is basically guaranteed, however miserly and you can also fish between spawns to supplement income.


    Esme
  • GrandueGrandue ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Gamden said:

    ANNOUNCE NEWS #4520 (03/04/2016 at 18:42)

    From : Tecton the Terraformer

    To : Everyone

    Subject: Seamonster tweaks

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A small tweak to seamonsters has just gone live: We've increased the (per-ship) time between seamonster spawning in the low-level areas. The rest of the more challenging zones remain unchanged.

    Penned by My hand on the 1st of Ero, in the year 707 AF.


    I am really not happy with this change.

    As a dragon i can make easily between 25-35k in an hour hunting.

    Before this 'small' change, I received 35k in an hour from monsters in the 'kiddie pool'(5 monsters in a hour).The difference is, I still need to subtract the cost of ammo.

    For wardiscs its 275 gold per disc.20 per discs per monster, is equal to 5500 gold cost.You get 7000 per monster, making 1500 gold in profit.

    For darts is 400 gold per dart.20 per monster is equal to 8000 per monster.You get 7000 per monster, losing 1000 gold per kill.

    (If you dont have a 200cr rack or friends that can give you free ammo)


    After this change, the spawn time is now double. That mean 1 monster every 20 minutes.

    3 monsters in an hour(If you strike the spawn perfectly)A profit of 4500 in an hour, or if you get ammo for free..21 000 gold in an hour.

    Not very rewarding for non bashers that loves and prefers the sea.


    Yes , some will remark that some captains only sit there and keep the area empty,wrong..cause monsters spawn PER ship..I did some hunting with other ships, we still made our gold each.


    Guess I'll go back to hunting in dragon for now


    Darts and discs do the same amount of damage against sea monsters? I would have thought darts did a lot more
  • AnariaAnaria ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Grandue said:

    Darts and discs do the same amount of damage against sea monsters? I would have thought darts did a lot more
    Darts have longer range. 
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Anaria said:
    stuff


    I do think gold for medium/hard monsters could be upped. Making them on par or even better with dragon bashing (at least the hard ones) would be pretty reasonable given you're risking sinking + ammo costs etc.

    Again, though, the only thing nerfed here was the extremely easy ones that you can basically afk-fight.

    Also, counting the cost of ships is pretty deceptive, really. Most people these days can grab a ship from someone else/their city without paying for it themselves, and you don't need trans seafaring to be competent at sea.
  • AnariaAnaria ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2016
    Kiet said:
    Anaria said:
    stuff


    I do think gold for medium/hard monsters could be upped. Making them on par or even better with dragon bashing (at least the hard ones) would be pretty reasonable given you're risking sinking + ammo costs etc.

    Again, though, the only thing nerfed here was the extremely easy ones that you can basically afk-fight.

    Also, counting the cost of ships is pretty deceptive, really. Most people these days can grab a ship from someone else/their city without paying for it themselves, and you don't need trans seafaring to be competent at sea.
    What exactly do dragons risk when they are bashing that compares to loss of ship and principal? A couple XP %? And how much do they need to invest to reach dragon level? Some gear? An artefact or two? It is certainly a tedious grind, of that I have no doubt. But then, so is earning up 21.3 mil gold.

    As for the "extremely easy ones" that is also deceptive. I have had more ship to ship fights in seamonster zones since I started than I've seen happen in my whole time playing Achaea. The risk is substantially higher in harder zones because if an enemy appears when your ship is at 50% with sails and figurehead down, that is not a happy position to be in. Especially since another won't spawn and engage the new comer. The bigger monsters are never going to be as frequent and popular an activity for exactly that reason even at double their current reward. Although I can name some people who would be super happy if the Tapoa reward was jacked up since those can be solo'ed as well and are currently untouched.

    10 hours on the seas is 10 hours where you can be attacked by anyone and sunk. 10 hours bashing is 10 hours of bashing. A comparison is absolutely necessary in this case to address the economics, but its still apples and oranges.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You can be attacked by people on the mainland, too, though. In fact, I do it all the time! You can be robbed, your npc's can be grabbed from under your nose, people with a grudge on you can come after you, etc.

    Dragon is, roughly, ~300 hours of playtime. That's a lot more investment than asking  your city 'hey can I borrow a ship'.

    Also... they are extremely easy. That other ships can come and shoot at you doesn't change that. You're not going to be at 50% hp from fighting the ones that are basically no more dangerous than an anchovy. It's also pretty hard to be sunk in the first place if you know what you're doing and are prepared (though it's not as hard as it was a while ago.

    Again, I did say I'd be fine with upping medium/hard monster rewards since they're pretty meh for just money/xp. But, once more, the ones they nerfed here were essentially gnolls. No one demands gnolls give the same gold as annwyn, as I said.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Hunting the kiddie pool shit in a cutter should give you macho gold, hunting them in striders should get you less, and hunting them in galleys should get you nothing.

    Risk vs reward and all that shit. Currently camping a strider in the kiddie pools is effortless gold with no real danger outside of actual PC pirates. Doing the kiddie pool stuff in a cutter varies massively in difficulty depending on what you get. The mudbacks for instance, are death-wielding hate machines.
    Tahquil
  • MatiasMatias ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 73 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I demand gnolls give the same gold as Annwyn... I demand rats give the same gold as Annwyn.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    Given the way CFS is going lately, rats giving the same gold as Annwyn may as well be the case.
  • GreysGreys ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 713 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Another Idea: 

    An item that gives you rank 5 in a specialization for a month.
  • TaeltwoTaeltwo ✭✭ - Stalwart Member Posts: 55 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited March 2016
    Ryzeth said:
    Mining is not a reliable sink, people who do it correctly will always make mass bank on what they mine/re-use.
    You're seriously misunderstanding how gold sinks work.

    The gold earned by someone engaged in mining is earned from other players, it isn't generated by the game. The gold costs involved in mining remove gold from the economy (when you pay the costs, gold is just getting deleted), but the gold earned by someone engaged in mining doesn't change the amount of gold in the economy (no gold is actually generated anywhere in the mining system).

    The point of a gold sink is to remove gold from the economy. Mining may make the miner rich, but it makes them rich by redistributing existing gold (by making other players poorer), not by creating more gold and injecting it into the economy. And all of the costs of mining actually do remove gold from the economy, not just rearrange it (when you become poorer by paying upkeep, no other player becomes commensurately richer).

    Regarding sea monsters, I'm not sure why the "kiddie pool" should have a similar return to dragon bashing.

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding since I haven't done any sea monster hunting since it was added, but it seems to me like if you want a greater return, you should be expecting to have to hunt more difficult prey, no? If the more difficult monsters aren't providing significant returns, that seems like a problem. But if just grinding out the easiest monsters isn't providing huge, dragon-bashing-like returns, that doesn't seem like a problem.
    ShirszaePippitSiduri
  • GreysGreys ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 713 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @Taeltwo you are correct on all accounts.
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