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Your break point, so.. many.. hits..
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
If you're a Sword and Shield Knight, everybody has a "high" break point. Slice limb damage isn't that great, but the long prep times are balanced out by how powerful the spec can be once you've got the prep finished, and not needing more than two limbs for most things.
Atalkez said:Handaxe throws prep in half the time it takes as Slice.
Atalkez said:Handaxe throws prep in half the time it takes as Slice.
Wait really?.... is that viable?
Good points and more off-topicness but it's more about the situations you force your opponents into plus the unrivaled aff pressure.Infernals benefit from relevant passive affs via maggots (sensitivity, lethargy, impatience etc iirc), the two other knight classes don't. With dedication and gravehands (rip runners), it's possible to force your opponent entirely unto the defensive by putting them at risk of getting pseudo or truelocked faster than Paladins/Runewardens. Combine the SnB aff rate + maggots + dedication and you have the strongest knight momentum class affliction-wise.In terms of scenarios, it's the same scenario that Paladins benefit from but you have their limbs to work with instead of head/torso choice.Shieldstrike low(prone)/slice(break leg)/epteth -> break other leg with epteth/shield aff -> vivi (need to burn tree prior)If you know they will restore on scenario 1, you can switch to a damage stack for 3+ (number depends on whether they are venom-locked prior) slices after the restore and try for a sensi-disembowel or switch back to locking affs since they'll be on the ground for awhile.On a torso/leg/leg prep, you're guaranteed either a disembowel or a vivisect - depending on whether your opponent tumbles.If they prio impatience, you still have the pseudo smash high-lock to rely on to delay the eating. Besides, if they're eating goldenseal on every impatience tick, they aren't curing asthma.Damage-wise, Deathaura more consistently damages health versus Demons(mana/hp drain), Hugalaz procs are really strong but has pretty bad RNG. SnB has some pretty strong, consistent damage with Shieldstrike Mid every 4 slices.Downsides, completely RNG but definitely underrated imo.
1. If they adjust their priorities so that they apply mending over restoration, that won't work. You suddenly need a lot more limbs prepped to get the Vivisect. If I've done my timeline correctly, assuming a latency on curing of ~0.2 seconds and a combination speed of 1.9 seconds, you'd need to prep all four limbs, and they wouldn't need to restore until AFTER you've broken all four of them and done an additional slice. That means that 1. rebounding will almost certainly come up and screw you over and 2. they have plenty of time to tumble out of the room before that point because they don't need to worry about staying on balance for restore any time soon.
3. Depends if they know when torso has broken or not. If they don't, then it's absolutely no different to scenario 1, they're free to tumble out of the room because you won't be able to get the vivisect any time soon even without them using restore. If they do, they'll apply to cure torso damage, and they're still free to tumble away because they don't need to restore any time soon. Even if they don't (want to) tumble, who gives a damn about a disembowel with no torso damage?
From a purely theorycrafting point of view, if it was me, and I was fighting a sword and shield Infernal, I'd push impatience above everything herb cured and broken limbs above mangled/mutilated limbs, and I'd also push paralysis way down my priorities while prone with (a) mangled/mutilated leg(s) so that I can cure off asthma (to smoke for rebounding) and sensitivity (to reduce damage taken).
Ultimately, Infernal's inability to give two mending-cured breaks on a single balance really hinders its ability to make vivisect a meaningful threat. Against people with awful priorities it's definitely strong (though still not as strong as dual cutting or dual blunt, if only due to the prep time required), but the measure of how truly powerful a class is shouldn't be how easily it kills people with awful priorities/who don't know how to defend against what it can do.
It's entirely possible I've made a mistake, though, so feel free to check:
scenario 1 (without tumble or rebounding)
0 - mangle leg + break arm (ll2, la1)
0.2 - apply mending to arms (ll2)
1.4 - apply restoration to legs (ll2)
1.9 - mangle leg + break arm (ll2, rl2, la1)
2.1 - touch tree (if they have it) (ll2, rl2)
3.8 - mangle arm + break arm/whatever (ll2, rl2, la2, ra1)
5.4 - restoration end (ll1, rl2, la2, ra1)
5.6 - apply mending to legs (rl2, la2, ra1)
5.7 - mangle arm + break leg (ll1, rl2, la2, ra2)
6.4 - apply mending to legs (rl2, la2, ra2)
7.6 - apply restoration to legs
7.6 - break leg (ll1, rl2, la2, ra2)
7.6 - restore (rl2, la2, ra2)
9.5 - break leg (ll1, rl2, la2, ra2)
11.4 - vivisect
11.6 - restoration ends
0 - torso
0.2 - apply restoration to torso
1.9 - leg + arm (ll2, la1)
3.8 - leg + arm (ll2, rl2, la1, ra1)
4.2 - restoration ends (ll2, rl2, la1, ra1)
4.4 - mending to arms (ll2, rl2, ra1)
5.6 - mending to arms (ll2, rl2)
5.7 - arm + arm (ll2, rl2, la2, ra1)
6.8 - mending to arms (ll2, rl2, la2)
... (honestly, they've had enough time to tumble, so not going to carry on)
Infestation is definitely very nice and very powerful, but expecting it to get you locks on a frequent basis is not going to work like you want it to. 10 possible afflictions, one every 10 seconds. That means on average you'll get impatience every 100 seconds (a little bit less than that in practice, since Infestation no longer doubles up on afflictions).Just to repeat, infestation is great and very useful for other things.Deathaura is also useful, but not as useful as you think. It's a % chance to tick every 10 seconds. Sometimes it doesn't tick for 20-30-40 seconds. I'll be classleading that it become stable rather than RNG next time around.
No one is going to get vivisected by a S&B Infernal unless they forgot that Infernals have vivisect. None of the vivisect ideas by Exelethril would work.
No one is going to get vivisected by a S&B Infernal unless they forgot that Infernals have vivisect.
S&B Vivisect, Opponent Tumbles, Uses Restoration------------------------------------------------0.0 torso 0.0 restoration torso t11.9 leg ept/trip t1, rl2, la1 3.0 Tumble? t1, rl2, la13.8 leg ept t1, rl2, ll2, la1, ra1 4.0 mending rl2, ll2, ra1 5.0 mending rl2, ll25.7 Wait rl2, ll2 6.0 restoration legs rl2, ll26.1 arm/ept rl2, ll2, la2, ra1 7.5 Tumble out? rl2, ll2, la2, ra18.0 Follow/Vivisect rl2, ll2, la2, ra1 8.5 Can RestoreS&B Vivisect, Opponent Tumbles, No Resto Off Bal------------------------------------------------0.0 torso 0.0 restoration torso t11.9 leg ept/trip t1, rl2, la1 3.0 Tumble? t1, rl2, la13.8 leg ept t1, rl2, ll2, la1, ra1 4.0 mend arms rl2, ll2, ra1 5.0 mend arms rl2, ll25.7 Wait rl2, ll2 6.0 Does not apply rl2, ll26.1 arm ept 6.1 mend arms rl2, ll2, la2 7.5 Tumble out? rl2, ll2, la28.0 Follow/arm ept rl2, ll2, la2, ra2 8.5 Can Restore, restoration legs9.6 VivisectS&B Vivisect, Opponent Restores, Uses Restoration-------------------------------------------------0.0 torso 0.0 restoration torso t11.9 leg ept/trip t1, rl2, la13.8 leg ept 3.8 Restore t1, rl2, ll2 4.0 restoration legs rl2, ll25.7 arm/ept rl2, ll2, la26.1 arm/ept rl2, ll2, la2, ra28.0 Vivisect 9.8 EQ backS&B Vivisect, Opponent Restores, No Resto Off EQ------------------------------------------------0.0 torso 0.0 restoration torso t11.9 leg ept/trip t1, rl2, la13.8 leg ept 3.8 Restore t1, rl2, ll2 4.0 Does not apply rl2, ll25.7 arm/ept 5.7 mend arms rl2, ll2, la26.1 arm/ept rl2, ll2, la2, ra28.0 Vivisect 9.8 EQ back
I agree with Antonius when he said S&B is the least threatening of the 4 styles in terms of Vivisect (Though, let's face it, 2H will probably kill you with damage before it gets 4 arm and 4 leg fracks stuck) but I obviously, strongly disagree with anyone who says it can't be done, even against a skilled opponent, with reasonable expectations of success. I think the evidence sets that to rest, do correct me if I've made some error in logic or calculation.