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PvP topic: What classes benefit the most from artifacts, and how would you spent 14k credits?

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  • LalaLala Member Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    He can be an Occie in Hashan too. The only downside to Occi is those damn pacts, but I admit it is very very cool. 
    OrzoEsme
  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Austere said:
    Blademaster limb damage still confuses me too death.  I don't think the formula is ever going to be perfect, but some people seem to make it work.
    There's actually a trick to it thanks to the relationship between the damage of compass and the two hits of arm/leg/centreslash.

    A lot of people try to actually figure out the relative damage of compass and the two different parts of arm/leg/centreslash and actually track that.

    You don't need to.

    There are exactly two scenarios for any opponent: either alternating sides with slashes will eventually break both limbs in one slash, or you can compass-slash each limb once first, and then alternating sides with slashes will eventually break both limbs in one slash.

    For every opponent, either going armslash left-right-left-right... will eventually break both left and right at once, or you can compass left, compass right, and then going armslash left-right-left-right... will eventually break both left and right at once.

    Once you know that, building a limb counter is a lot easier, and it's even pretty possible to fight without one (do alternating slashes until something breaks - if it double-broke, you know the count, if it single-broke, compass the unbroken one to reset, and the count is one compass to each and then one fewer slash to double-break).

    Things get complicated if you try to swap stances mid-prep, but otherwise it's not nearly as bad as people think it is.
  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 2,379 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Tael said:
    Austere said:
    Blademaster limb damage still confuses me too death.  I don't think the formula is ever going to be perfect, but some people seem to make it work.
    There's actually a trick to it thanks to the relationship between the damage of compass and the two hits of arm/leg/centreslash.

    A lot of people try to actually figure out the relative damage of compass and the two different parts of arm/leg/centreslash and actually track that.

    You don't need to.

    There are exactly two scenarios for any opponent: either alternating sides with slashes will eventually break both limbs in one slash, or you can compass-slash each limb once first, and then alternating sides with slashes will eventually break both limbs in one slash.

    For every opponent, either going armslash left-right-left-right... will eventually break both left and right at once, or you can compass left, compass right, and then going armslash left-right-left-right... will eventually break both left and right at once.

    Once you know that, building a limb counter is a lot easier, and it's even pretty possible to fight without one (do alternating slashes until something breaks - if it double-broke, you know the count, if it single-broke, compass the unbroken one to reset, and the count is one compass to each and then one fewer slash to double-break).

    Things get complicated if you try to swap stances mid-prep, but otherwise it's not nearly as bad as people think it is.
    Comparing it to knight or monk though, it's very complex.  I can account for rebounding self limb damage and third person damage with just about any class except BM. BM would need a much more accurate formula to even begin guessing at how to track that.  

    Edit: I suppose if you only duel and never use rebounding, that would work though
  • CitrusCitrus Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Speaking for myself, I hate being a Blademaster.  The PvP is ok and pretty fun, except for limb counting which as has been said can be very frustrating trying to count when you get slightly off by a guard/parry/dodge/miss and it throws off your whole setup.  And that's about it for the positives...  The bashing for BM is horrid, I multi-classed Runewarden with single trans and and can tank more and kill faster than tri-trans BM with an artefact band.  We have -0- usefulness in raids which is a huge part of the game now.

    Basically if you want fun, challenging, PvP combat but nothing else go BM.
  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Austere said:
    Tael said:
    Austere said:
    Blademaster limb damage still confuses me too death.  I don't think the formula is ever going to be perfect, but some people seem to make it work.
    There's actually a trick to it thanks to the relationship between the damage of compass and the two hits of arm/leg/centreslash.

    A lot of people try to actually figure out the relative damage of compass and the two different parts of arm/leg/centreslash and actually track that.

    You don't need to.

    There are exactly two scenarios for any opponent: either alternating sides with slashes will eventually break both limbs in one slash, or you can compass-slash each limb once first, and then alternating sides with slashes will eventually break both limbs in one slash.

    For every opponent, either going armslash left-right-left-right... will eventually break both left and right at once, or you can compass left, compass right, and then going armslash left-right-left-right... will eventually break both left and right at once.

    Once you know that, building a limb counter is a lot easier, and it's even pretty possible to fight without one (do alternating slashes until something breaks - if it double-broke, you know the count, if it single-broke, compass the unbroken one to reset, and the count is one compass to each and then one fewer slash to double-break).

    Things get complicated if you try to swap stances mid-prep, but otherwise it's not nearly as bad as people think it is.
    Comparing it to knight or monk though, it's very complex.  I can account for rebounding self limb damage and third person damage with just about any class except BM. BM would need a much more accurate formula to even begin guessing at how to track that.  

    Edit: I suppose if you only duel and never use rebounding, that would work though
    Yeah, I guess rebounding is a problem.

    If you're in a group fight as a BM though (i.e., not just dueling), I imagine there are pretty much always more useful things you could be doing than limb damage - hamstringing, impaling, helping finish locks, damage with sternum or multislash, using other people's bleed to get off brokenstar, etc. And even if you're trying to do breaks (or trying to defend against them), would it really matter as much that they go off simultaneously given that you're talking about several people's worth of limb damage at once?
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Querynaut said:
    I generally prefer classes that have more than one way to kill people. It sounds as if Occultist can afflict, as well as damage kill people.

    Out of those listed, is Occultist the only one with at least two viable kill methods?

    Please forgive my ignorance if this has been answered already.
    Occultist is actually not all that versatile. You're realistically going for the single aff route, or damaging people who don't know what to watch out for.

    Like Xinna said, most classes have more than one route, and I'd say about half of them have more versatility than occultist, at least, for their routes.
  • QuerynautQuerynaut Member Posts: 9
    I realize I didn't mention this class before, but considering Multiclass is a thing now it would probably behoove me to pick classes that would benefit from the same artifacts. So if I'm going to pick say, Occultist, I'm guessing a Mage would also benefit immensely from the Collar and Int artifacts.

    How are Mages looked upon in terms of combat ability?
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    They're good
  • QuerynautQuerynaut Member Posts: 9
    Thank you for your help.
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,475 @ - Epic Achaean
    Querynaut said:
    I realize I didn't mention this class before, but considering Multiclass is a thing now it would probably behoove me to pick classes that would benefit from the same artifacts. So if I'm going to pick say, Occultist, I'm guessing a Mage would also benefit immensely from the Collar and Int artifacts.

    How are Mages looked upon in terms of combat ability?
    Every class will have their struggle. You will like a class if you like the struggle or can get along with it. It is really best to try out the classes that you shortlist, jump into the water and then you will know for certain, how much you like it. 

    14k credits are more than enough to try a few classes with multiclass. Don't throw all the credits into Arties immediately. Buy them as you need them, take your time to explore. 

    I hated affliction combat when I return 8 months ago, but after trying, I became addicted and become decent with it.

    There isn't a class that's gonna wreck every one else. 

    I personally like serpent, I am Artied and love how the offensive Arties, my Dirk, affects my prowess. I still need lupine bow for loldamage. 

    I also like alchemist, they don't need much Arties, defensive ones rock, make us so much harder to kill. I lately learned about riding hence blocking, and also got a bracers of frost to add to already powerful room hinder. It works super well. 

    I think every class can be countered and they all benefit from Arties in different ways. Try them out, you will find one you like the most. 
  • QuerynautQuerynaut Member Posts: 9
    In the grand scheme of things, I think your cars vastly outweigh my credit count both in terms of usefulness and enjoyment. Winning at real life > winning at games.
    CorbeauxPiera
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,973 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Magi are awesome. I am the Holocaust King!!! Kneel before my magi knowledge, oh lamb of my loins, for i shall bequeath unto thee mine knowledge
    DochithaPieraHarmoniaNylian
  • QuerynautQuerynaut Member Posts: 9
    edited February 2016
    Aegoth said:
    Magi are awesome. I am the Holocaust King!!! Kneel before my magi knowledge, oh lamb of my loins, for i shall bequeath unto thee mine knowledge
    A train is traveling at eighty miles per hour. The next station is six hundred fifty miles away. At present speed, how long would it take to arrive?

    A. Five hours.
    B. Eight hours.
    C. A wild holocaust globe appeared.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Querynaut said:
    Aegoth said:
    Magi are awesome. I am the Holocaust King!!! Kneel before my magi knowledge, oh lamb of my loins, for i shall bequeath unto thee mine knowledge
    A train is traveling at eighty miles per hour. The next station is six hundred fifty miles away. At present speed, how long would it take to arrive?

    A. Five hours.
    B. Eight hours.
    C. A wild holocaust globe appeared.
    Trick question.

    The answer is D. The train is a metaphor for your search for a new class and your progress to better yourself. You realize you have upwards of three thousand dollars in virtual currency that you have no way to return to yourself and realize you've spent too much time and money on this game, and you resolve to distance yourself from Achaea and not put any more money into your virtual fortune. You are going strong, but after a few days, you begin to waver, your confidence faltering. You develop a habit of biting your nails due to the anxiety. A few weeks go by without your mud-fix, and you can't stop thinking about it. You're spending more time thinking about Achaea than you had spent playing it. Your life is deteriorating. The lack of Achaea is driving you mad. You drink. A lot. You try to drive the flashes of scrolling text away, but they just wont leave you alone. You begin to dream in text. You dream horrible dreams, dreams of cities burning and you dying horribly, as line after line of text scrolls by. You awake in a cold sweat, realizing that it's four in the morning. This is ruining your life, but you just can't get away from it, so what do you do? You sit down, open your laptop and... WAIT! You're not this weak! You snap the laptop shut and go for a walk, forgetting to bring your jacket. It's freezing outside, but you barrel on, disregarding the cold, shivering the whole way. Thirty minutes later you've circled back, a pale, shivering mess. You tried but you can't fight it. You give in to the temptation. You sit down and log in. You binge sixteen hours of game time then pass out, waking up the next morning. From then on Achaea takes up just as much of your life as it had before, but this time you have no thoughts of quitting, as you know the consequences. Silver lining, you have no regrets, as you know you would not be productive regardless. You go on living your life as normal, with chunks of hours at a time consumed by the machinations of the Garden, and become the first person to ever die while playing a text-based MUD at the age of eighty-seven, married to a woman who is also your text-wife, and three beautiful children who all play as opposing factions, one Targossan, one Ashtani, and one Drekkari ( the new city of Evil, ruled over by the half of Sarapis that turned out to be evil, after He was split in half by Tecton during a heated debate over the fate of Selucar ). The Garden holds a beautiful text-memorial for you, and you are given a special honours line to commemorate your dedication. Your tombstone has your character's name etched into it, below yours. You will forever be remembered as the Achaean. The next day, an intern at the newspaper gets your name mixed up with another recent death's, and you are forever commemorated in the obituaries as the man who died while on the shitter in the back of a half-kfc, half-pizza hut hybrid. Nobody seems to care.

    /rant
    Huh. Neat.
    CesarinaElowinAstrikaBrean
  • QuerynautQuerynaut Member Posts: 9
    Well $#@!.

  • JovoloJovolo Member Posts: 3,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'd marry his jawline. 
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jovolo said:
    I'd marry his jawline. 
    Seconded
    Huh. Neat.
  • VithincusVithincus Member Posts: 149 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    This thread is like a bright neon sign highlighting the fact that I'm poor. Well I shouldn't say poor. A bright neon sign highlighting that I'll never have nice things. Credits make me sad. I wish Achaea had like a million active players so our benevolent Admin team could make the comfortable living they deserve with the awesome product they provide and I could have a +15% sip ring without having to eat out of dumpsters for a year. 
    BreanKenway
  • SylvariaSylvaria Member Posts: 215 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Vithincus said:
    This thread is like a bright neon sign highlighting the fact that I'm poor. Well I shouldn't say poor. A bright neon sign highlighting that I'll never have nice things. Credits make me sad. I wish Achaea had like a million active players so our benevolent Admin team could make the comfortable living they deserve with the awesome product they provide and I could have a +15% sip ring without having to eat out of dumpsters for a year. 
    Dumpsters are for fancy types, I hide under tables at restaurants and clean off plates as people leave
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Ahmet said:
    Querynaut said:
    Aegoth said:
    Magi are awesome. I am the Holocaust King!!! Kneel before my magi knowledge, oh lamb of my loins, for i shall bequeath unto thee mine knowledge
    A train is traveling at eighty miles per hour. The next station is six hundred fifty miles away. At present speed, how long would it take to arrive?

    A. Five hours.
    B. Eight hours.
    C. A wild holocaust globe appeared.
    Trick question.

    The answer is D. The train is a metaphor for your search for a new class and your progress to better yourself. You realize you have upwards of three thousand dollars in virtual currency that you have no way to return to yourself and realize you've spent too much time and money on this game, and you resolve to distance yourself from Achaea and not put any more money into your virtual fortune. You are going strong, but after a few days, you begin to waver, your confidence faltering. You develop a habit of biting your nails due to the anxiety. A few weeks go by without your mud-fix, and you can't stop thinking about it. You're spending more time thinking about Achaea than you had spent playing it. Your life is deteriorating. The lack of Achaea is driving you mad. You drink. A lot. You try to drive the flashes of scrolling text away, but they just wont leave you alone. You begin to dream in text. You dream horrible dreams, dreams of cities burning and you dying horribly, as line after line of text scrolls by. You awake in a cold sweat, realizing that it's four in the morning. This is ruining your life, but you just can't get away from it, so what do you do? You sit down, open your laptop and... WAIT! You're not this weak! You snap the laptop shut and go for a walk, forgetting to bring your jacket. It's freezing outside, but you barrel on, disregarding the cold, shivering the whole way. Thirty minutes later you've circled back, a pale, shivering mess. You tried but you can't fight it. You give in to the temptation. You sit down and log in. You binge sixteen hours of game time then pass out, waking up the next morning. From then on Achaea takes up just as much of your life as it had before, but this time you have no thoughts of quitting, as you know the consequences. Silver lining, you have no regrets, as you know you would not be productive regardless. You go on living your life as normal, with chunks of hours at a time consumed by the machinations of the Garden, and become the first person to ever die while playing a text-based MUD at the age of eighty-seven, married to a woman who is also your text-wife, and three beautiful children who all play as opposing factions, one Targossan, one Ashtani, and one Drekkari ( the new city of Evil, ruled over by the half of Sarapis that turned out to be evil, after He was split in half by Tecton during a heated debate over the fate of Selucar ). The Garden holds a beautiful text-memorial for you, and you are given a special honours line to commemorate your dedication. Your tombstone has your character's name etched into it, below yours. You will forever be remembered as the Achaean. The next day, an intern at the newspaper gets your name mixed up with another recent death's, and you are forever commemorated in the obituaries as the man who died while on the shitter in the back of a half-kfc, half-pizza hut hybrid. Nobody seems to care.

    /rant
    You have died. Perhaps you should EMBRACE DEATH.

  • NylianNylian Member Posts: 125 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Tael said:
    Austere said:
    Blademaster limb damage still confuses me too death.  I don't think the formula is ever going to be perfect, but some people seem to make it work.
    There's actually a trick to it thanks to the relationship between the damage of compass and the two hits of arm/leg/centreslash.

    A lot of people try to actually figure out the relative damage of compass and the two different parts of arm/leg/centreslash and actually track that.

    You don't need to.

    There are exactly two scenarios for any opponent: either alternating sides with slashes will eventually break both limbs in one slash, or you can compass-slash each limb once first, and then alternating sides with slashes will eventually break both limbs in one slash.

    For every opponent, either going armslash left-right-left-right... will eventually break both left and right at once, or you can compass left, compass right, and then going armslash left-right-left-right... will eventually break both left and right at once.

    Once you know that, building a limb counter is a lot easier, and it's even pretty possible to fight without one (do alternating slashes until something breaks - if it double-broke, you know the count, if it single-broke, compass the unbroken one to reset, and the count is one compass to each and then one fewer slash to double-break).

    Things get complicated if you try to swap stances mid-prep, but otherwise it's not nearly as bad as people think it is.
    Caveat being that you have to be in the same stance.  If you start with sanya to build shin and swap to thyr mid fight, you're going to have a bad time with the counts.
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