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PvP topic: What classes benefit the most from artifacts, and how would you spent 14k credits?

I would like to hear the public opinion on which classes benefit the most from artifacts. They can be defensive, offensive or some of each, but the price tag must be 14,000 credits or less. I'd like to hear what classes you think benefit the most, what class you'd pick if you were to make a new character and why.

This is so I can learn what you think and why you think it, so I can have the information I'd like to both form an opinion and make an informed decision by reading what your opinions are.

Short posts, long posts, whatever posts. I welcome them all.

For those of you who are just passing through without posting, here is come pie. Sorry, no cake. Pie's better.




I lied. Cake is good too.


QwynJalaras
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Comments

  • XinnaXinna Member Posts: 691 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Honestly, you can benefit from 14k credits of artefacts as any class because defensive artefacts are enormously beneficial. The difference tends to be how much a class benefits from offensive artefacts.

    Monk is definitely one of the most benefitted offensively, though you can spend a lot more than 14k trying to get everything that benefits monk. Sylvan also benefits a lot, and probably still knights and bards too.

    I'd pick class moreso based on what you want to play, though. Are you looking for a damage class that you can just Artie up and easily smash things? If so, probably monk or sylvan.

    I will say that alchemist, shaman, and apostate are probably the -least- benefitted by artefacts, but people still play them heavily artied. They aren't really "worse." They just happen to already be really good unartied.
    AntidasShirszae
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,212 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Talisman/Diadem: 1200
    Chitin Greaves: 500
    Wings: 800
    Pipes: 150
    Tree: 100
    Ring of Flying: 400
    Level 2 collar: 800
    Level 2 hit pendant: 600
    Buckawns: 800
    Circlet/Amulet: 300
    Endurance: 250
    Magus: 275
    SoA: 800
    Level 2 bracelets: 700
    Level 2 health sip: 1000
    Level 2 mana sip: 1000
    Level 2 Health regen: 850
    Level 2 Mana regen: 850

    Total: 11,375

    Remaining: 2,625

    This is what I would do, personally. Would give you a great baseline of defensive stuff (and crit pendant for hunting for more gold generation to turn into later credits), and basically opens you up to play essentially any class. 

    With the remaining credits, I would look into offensive requirements for any class you're wanting to play. (Serpent would be level two dirk and a bow, Sylvan maybe upgrade the collar, Monk you would want knuckles and maybe str arties, knight classes you'd want weapons and strength etc etc.) Like Xinna said, nearly every class benefits with artefacts, it's just a matter of finding the class style that you want to play. You can be quick/fast with afflictions, you can just damage people out, you can do instant kills with broken limbs etc. Gotta know what kind of style you're looking for!




    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    PieraShirszae
  • MatiasMatias Member Posts: 73 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Do you have the credits for lessons on top of the 14k? If so perhaps multi-classing would be of interest. Best of both worlds.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,991 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I wouldn't buy a Collar or Shield of Absorption until you've picked a class. Plenty of classes won't get much, if any, benefit from the collar, and some classes can't make much use of the shield.
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,169 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2016
    What's your background? Combat style/experience?

    Compulsive answer is Runewarden. It's an incredibly well rounded class with 4 archetypes within. Only need strength Gauntlets to benefit offense, the rest can be full defense. It's a very amazing class with a variety of offensive styles built into it. Top tier combat and bashing,  offensively and defensively. Fitness AND passive curing.

    If you have high level experience and some coding, you can't go wrong with Serpent. Pretty fair shot to kill any opponent.

    Then there's faction classes. 

    In my opinion, Paladin is the best class in the game. 
    image
    AtalkezShirszaeExelethrilKyrra
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,840 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You forgot lyre and shackles, @Atalkez
  • QuerynautQuerynaut Member Posts: 9
    edited February 2016
    That ist was extremely comprehensive @Atalkez . Thank you! Thank you to everyone else offering help as well.

    I must admit I've never been a huge fan of affliction classes. While the tricks Serpent can pull off look ridiculously fun, I don't think it's my kind of bag.

    I do like damaging people out. I do enjoy limb breaks. I enjoy unique kinds of setups. Flavor. I'm not expressing myself very well here, I apologize.

    I will be honest, I was very interested in Alchemist, Occultist, Runewarden, Bard and Blademaster. They are all very different from one another, they're very unique to Achaea with only Occultist bearing some similarity to one of Imperian's classes and from what I've been able to read on the forums, they can all perform well.

    Is there any advice you would like to give regarding these classes and my playstyle?


  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,212 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Alchemist: No offensive artefacts really needed. Diadem helps. Can focus on defensive artefacts. I'm not sure if you need to spec Int or Con here, depends on your playstyle.

    Builds humours into tremendous affect, can bleed people out, lock or damage them. Hard to get away from, but survivable if you do. Nearly impossible to cure around.

    Occultist: Diadem really needed here. Also Con, since you need to spec for Int (correct me if I'm wrong, someone)

    Builds pools of afflictions into certain effects. Extremely fast. Extremely hard to cure around. Extremely hard to get away from. Quick reset if you can get away. Impossible to out-cure

    Runewarden: No kill outside of disembowel (reliable, anyway), which takes high str to make it an instant kill with a torso break. Weapon (or two depending on spec) really makes a major difference here. Since you need to spec str, you'll want some +CON. 

    Limb prep and damage. Main kill requires high strength or pre-damage going into the kill chain. Is a slow class, struggles versus fast classes that can out-afflict it (depending on Spec). Can easily be mitigated with good curing (salve) management.

    Bard: Weapon makes a huge factor, with Canticle you can be putting out some major damage and fast afflictions. The pendulum and tuning fork are also worth looking into. Can safely spec Con with no downside, as Strength isn't required for this class to be successful.

    Limb Prep, damage, locks. This class has it all. Amazing hunting. Can be sort of squishy, but can also be extremely tanky with Harmonics. Struggles with good priority management and consistent leaving the room (no room hinder), which makes you need to do limb prep and your afflictions in conjunction with one another.

    Blademaster: Only real offensive artie you need here is a band for a sword, level two is enough to get the speed you want. Level three just increases your margin for error. Can look into the Shin bracers (I personally never needed or used them). Lots of untapped potential with high strength builds, so +STR may be an option here as well. Can spec Con for increased survivability with no downside.

    Works off of breaking legs into high bleed levels for instant kill. Can be hard to survive, so-so to get away from. Versus non-artied people, it's devestating to fight. Versus artied people, it can be frustrating to fight as. Lots of versatility, very little raiding utility. Can kill 99% of the game with just tri-trans skills, if you work at it.




    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • GrandueGrandue Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Occultist is really fun to play, man. Lots of utility, lots of ways to boost your offense through artifacts sash/diadem/collar, lots of fun RP, and a very strong offensive class.
  • PieraPiera Member Posts: 69 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Alchemist is super duper fun. I'm still trying to improve, but the class definitely is versatile in the tactics it can employ, as @Atalkez said. I ended up taking the Con spec for my race, and taking +1 intelligence from Traits - though you probably can just go pure Con. As far as I know, Int does not really make a difference except for Educe Iron, your hunting skill (someone feel free to correct me on this). Bashing is nice, especially if you have some lessons invested in Formulation for endorphin and petrifying compounds, and with nutritional compounds you can pretty much use that instead of food while you're below level 80.
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,520 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez is kind of off on his suggestions.

    Things you don't need:

    #1 - Mana sip. Will only be truly useful vs. 1 class, and is not even close to worth the credits unless credits mean nothing to you.
    #2 - Tree artie tattoo - Tree has a lot of uses when you ink it and inks are cheap now. Will take a massive amount of tree tattoos to become worth it.
    #3 - Critical hit pendant - only useful if you intend to go for dragon and want to get there a little bit faster, or if you're already a dragon and intend to bash up thousands of credits
    #4 - Willpower Amulet/Endurance Ring - only useful for those who intend to bash for extended periods of time (think 5+ hours a day)
    #5 - Level 2 mana regen - only useful if you're a class that uses a lot of mana, or if you intend to fight Priests a lot.
    #6 - General misplay in buying a lot of level 2s instead of a handful of level 1s and a few level 2s. Level 1 collar/Level 1 sash is more efficient credit wise than a level 2 collar considering his preference towards being able to heal mana faster, and the benefit of bracelet adding to +int. He suggests a level 2 health set (bracelets/regen/sip ring) but no +con artie at all, very inefficient.
    #7 - SoA not useful at all for some classes, though it is a great artefact for many.


    AchillesAtalkez
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,212 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Cooper said:
    Atalkez is kind of off on his suggestions.

    Things you don't need:

    #1 - Mana sip. Will only be truly useful vs. 1 class, and is not even close to worth the credits unless credits mean nothing to you.

    Blademaster, Apostate, Priest and Occultist (and I think Alchemist has a 50% mana 50% health kill, can't recall 100%) - otherwise you're right.

    #2 - Tree artie tattoo - Tree has a lot of uses when you ink it and inks are cheap now. Will take a massive amount of tree tattoos to become worth it.

    Also technically correct here. The cost of 100c is cheap for the convenience of never worrying about it fading when you need it most.

    #3 - Critical hit pendant - only useful if you intend to go for dragon and want to get there a little bit faster, or if you're already a dragon and intend to bash up thousands of credits

    If you plan to generate gold to turn into more credits later (which most everyone does when they can't afford to drop more $$ directly), you'll want this.

    #4 - Willpower Amulet/Endurance Ring - only useful for those who intend to bash for extended periods of time (think 5+ hours a day)

    If you plan to do the above, you'll want this as well as Cooper said.

    #5 - Level 2 mana regen - only useful if you're a class that uses a lot of mana, or if you intend to fight Priests a lot.

    Blademaster, Occultist mainly for this one. It helps, but Cooper is right, is not super necessity.

    #6 - General misplay in buying a lot of level 2s instead of a handful of level 1s and a few level 2s. Level 1 collar/Level 1 sash is more efficient credit wise than a level 2 collar considering his preference towards being able to heal mana faster, and the benefit of bracelet adding to +int. He suggests a level 2 health set (bracelets/regen/sip ring) but no +con artie at all, very inefficient.

    This is a fair critique, as it's been debated more than once before. I perfer a set of level twos over a single level 1. Easy enough to swap a mana sip/regen artie out for a +Con artie. I figure that determination would be more based on the class that he chooses.

    #7 - SoA not useful at all for some classes, though it is a great artefact for many.

    SoA one of the best arties in the game. Unless you're a BM and flat out can't wield it, it's useful even if niche. As many classes (and Dragon if you hunt), it's well worth the buy imo.



    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,579 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cooper said:
    Atalkez is kind of off on his suggestions.

    Things you don't need:

    #1 - Mana sip. Will only be truly useful vs. 1 class, and is not even close to worth the credits unless credits mean nothing to you.
    #2 - Tree artie tattoo - Tree has a lot of uses when you ink it and inks are cheap now. Will take a massive amount of tree tattoos to become worth it.
    #3 - Critical hit pendant - only useful if you intend to go for dragon and want to get there a little bit faster, or if you're already a dragon and intend to bash up thousands of credits
    #4 - Willpower Amulet/Endurance Ring - only useful for those who intend to bash for extended periods of time (think 5+ hours a day)
    #5 - Level 2 mana regen - only useful if you're a class that uses a lot of mana, or if you intend to fight Priests a lot.
    #6 - General misplay in buying a lot of level 2s instead of a handful of level 1s and a few level 2s. Level 1 collar/Level 1 sash is more efficient credit wise than a level 2 collar considering his preference towards being able to heal mana faster, and the benefit of bracelet adding to +int. He suggests a level 2 health set (bracelets/regen/sip ring) but no +con artie at all, very inefficient.
    #7 - SoA not useful at all for some classes, though it is a great artefact for many.

    would throw out greaves as well if you go runewarden (mount jump), bard (backflip same thing) or bm (have leap).  Don't need talisman if you go runewarden or bm really.  You can live without pipes too, really one could whip up a script have have 2 sets of pipes.  


    Wings: 800
    Ring of Flying: 400
    Level 2 collar: 800 (not needed for Runewarden, BM)
    Level 2 hit pendant: 600 (not needed until level 80+)
    Buckawns: 800 (don't need as much if bard)
    Circlet/Amulet: 300 (only if power bashing as int class)
    Endurance: 250 (only if power bashing str)
    Magus: 275 (trans constitution, get resistance rings first)
    SoA: 800 (cant use as BM, two-handed, dual cutting or dual blunt knights) 
    Level 2 bracelets: 700
    Level 2 health sip: 1000
    Level 2 Health regen: 850
    Hunter's belt (+1 con): 400
    Level 2 Str or Int artie depending on class: 1250
    Level 3 weapon: 1600

    Can pretty much get a very good min-max character for your class for 8000cr or less.  Would trans all class skills, all miniskills, survival, tattoos, avoidance, weaponry and learn some vision. 


    image
    Atalkez
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If you don't like affliction classes, occultist and alchemist won't be up your alley, probably.
    AtalkezAntidasXinna
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Alchie instakill is 60/60
    Huh. Neat.
  • QuerynautQuerynaut Member Posts: 9
    Kiet said:
    If you don't like affliction classes, occultist and alchemist won't be up your alley, probably.
    I considered this myself, but the sheer uniqueness of the class has me interested. I'm told it's pretty beast mode which, frankly, is pretty attractive.


    I am loving this feedback everyone. Excellent information!
  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,537 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Occie with diadem and int arties is tough to deal with
    image
  • DaironDairon Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    How useful would a diadem be for a serpent/dragon? Would a lyre + shackle be more worthwhile?
  • AntidasAntidas Member Posts: 1,504 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Dairon Diadem only helps serpents with illusion speeds these days, and since the addition of server side curing, illusions are really just used for defensive purposes to trick your opponent now rather than how they used to be. Back in the day, because of how important illusions were to a serpents offense, it was very useful. Nowadays, I wouldn't waste your credits on it.

    For dragon, it really only helps if you want to use incantation for hunting...I don't think anything else dragon uses is EQ based, although I could be wrong on that one. I don't really do much outside of hunting in dragon. That said, incantation is really only there for people whose main class is magi or something where they have a lot of int artifacts and don't want to be using a strength based hunting attack.

    So overall, I'd say, diadem mostly useless for serpent/dragon. Definitely go for lyre + shackle, if you're looking at it for pvp purposes. Lyre is an excellent (and very frustrating) defensive artie, and shackle will allow you to dash around as much as you want during raids or whatever without having to sacrifice having mass up (you can take it off to dash then put it back on afterwards).

    Dairon
  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Level 1 and level 2 bracelets are equivalent in terms of credits per increased hp. So if buying a level 1 bracelet is economical compared to buying a +con artefact, so is level 2 bracelet. There is no situation where you want to buy a level 1 bracelet over a +1 con belt, but don't want to buy a level 2 bracelet over a +1 con belt.

    And the bracelets are almost exactly as efficient as a +1 con belt. For many people, they'll be very slightly more efficient than even a +1 con artefact. At level 80 with 15 con, you have 4220 health, so a bracelet adds 211 health (.603 hp/credit) and a +1 con artefact adds 240 health (.600 hp/credit). A level 2 bracelet is just as efficient as a level 1 bracelet: it adds 422 health (.603 hp/credit). So if you're level 80 with 15 con, you should actually buy a level 2 bracelet before you buy even a +1 con belt. The +2 con belt is even worse - it adds 480 health (.48 hp/credit).

    And a level 2 sip ring is better in some/many/most(?) cases than any +hp artefact since so many PvP attacks have a lot of max-health scaling.

    Regen is the only one that probably isn't reasonable to get before +con artefacts.
    Atalkez
  • QwynQwyn Member Posts: 247 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Does the trifecta (enhance + con + sip) work out higher overall, since they each augment each other? I've never done the math, just always heard that as common wisdom.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Very few PvP attacks are so largely %based that sip ring is indubitably better though. Choke and some finishers are the only 100% scaling ones, and flat HP gives you higher limb break points and prevents some classes from perma mangling you.
  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Well, regardless of the utility of sip rings over increased health, it's definitely not the case that you're necessarily making a mistake picking up level 2 bracelets before +1 con belt. I guess unless bracelets don't change breakpoints, but I thought I recalled them affecting limb health when I was testing things with Dorn way back.
  • DaironDairon Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Antidas said:
    @Dairon Diadem only helps serpents with illusion speeds these days, and since the addition of server side curing, illusions are really just used for defensive purposes to trick your opponent now rather than how they used to be. Back in the day, because of how important illusions were to a serpents offense, it was very useful. Nowadays, I wouldn't waste your credits on it.

    For dragon, it really only helps if you want to use incantation for hunting...I don't think anything else dragon uses is EQ based, although I could be wrong on that one. I don't really do much outside of hunting in dragon. That said, incantation is really only there for people whose main class is magi or something where they have a lot of int artifacts and don't want to be using a strength based hunting attack.

    So overall, I'd say, diadem mostly useless for serpent/dragon. Definitely go for lyre + shackle, if you're looking at it for pvp purposes. Lyre is an excellent (and very frustrating) defensive artie, and shackle will allow you to dash around as much as you want during raids or whatever without having to sacrifice having mass up (you can take it off to dash then put it back on afterwards).
    Thanks. I was also thinking I might multiclass into magi ot occultist so I wanted to get something that could benefit both (+ dragon) classes. I think I'll definitely get the lyre and shackle if i end up not getting a TF. 
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,991 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tael said:

    And a level 2 sip ring is better in some/many/most(?) cases than any +hp artefact since so many PvP attacks have a lot of max-health scaling.

    Flat out better against kai choke, possibly better against BBT. That's probably about it.

    Disembowel does such a large percentage of maximum health - in some cases enough that it really doesn't matter, you'll die anyway - in one hit that the best way to hope to survive it (if you don't cure properly) is to be at as high a percentage of maximum health as possible prior to being disembowelled, and since all of the lead up damage isn't percentage-based, a higher maximum health is generally going to be better, especially if you've got a fair amount of percentage-based health regen.

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tael said:
    Level 1 and level 2 bracelets are equivalent in terms of credits per increased hp. So if buying a level 1 bracelet is economical compared to buying a +con artefact, so is level 2 bracelet. There is no situation where you want to buy a level 1 bracelet over a +1 con belt, but don't want to buy a level 2 bracelet over a +1 con belt.

    And the bracelets are almost exactly as efficient as a +1 con belt. For many people, they'll be very slightly more efficient than even a +1 con artefact. At level 80 with 15 con, you have 4220 health, so a bracelet adds 211 health (.603 hp/credit) and a +1 con artefact adds 240 health (.600 hp/credit). A level 2 bracelet is just as efficient as a level 1 bracelet: it adds 422 health (.603 hp/credit). So if you're level 80 with 15 con, you should actually buy a level 2 bracelet before you buy even a +1 con belt. The +2 con belt is even worse - it adds 480 health (.48 hp/credit).
    Except the level 1 bracelet increases the value of con. If you have a level 1 bracelet, then a level 1 belt would add 252 instead of 240, for 0.63 hp/credit. So instead of getting a level 2 bracelet (422 health for 700 credits), it would be slightly better to get level 1 of each (463 health for 750 credits).

    Either way though, the difference is usually small enough that the choice between extra endurance and extra mana is more important than the difference in health.
    Tael
  • XinnaXinna Member Posts: 691 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Based on how you described yourself, you might like blademaster best. You might also really like runewarden. The cool thing about runewarden is there are four different specs with different styles. You might really like 2h because it is unique and damage oriented, but it depends if you're OK with slow attacks.
  • QuerynautQuerynaut Member Posts: 9
    I generally prefer classes that have more than one way to kill people. It sounds as if Occultist can afflict, as well as damage kill people.

    Out of those listed, is Occultist the only one with at least two viable kill methods?

    Please forgive my ignorance if this has been answered already.
  • XinnaXinna Member Posts: 691 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited February 2016
    No. Are you planning to play in Ashtan? Otherwise, you might really like sylvan or paladin, which both have amazing damage and multiple kill routes.

    Occultist technically has a damage kill route, but it's not used often. The class is mostly about the affliction route.

    Monk also has great damage and two kill routes, damage via finishers after leg breaks and mind scythe after limb breaks + affliction stacking.

    Blademaster can damage kill or kill with brokenstar, an instakill based on bleed.

    Alchemist has at least four ways to kill, but they all start the same way ( building tempers, an affliction unique to alchemist).

    Most classes have multiple kill routes.
    Austere
  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 2,340 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sylvan is ridiculous damage right now.  So much that it's screaming for a nerf. If you're planning long term, I would almost recommend staying away from this.  It might not happen, and it might not happen this year, but general concensus seems to be that it's too much.  

    Monk, assuming you want to avoid affliction based combat,  is still very strong.  High strength bbt and axk hurt, but it takes away your ability to max int,  which is where all the raid fun is at. 

    Occultist damage is in a good place.  Jinsun was very close to killing me two or three times with it, despite my arties and the fact that I was evade whoring anytime I got low.  The class has three reasonably viable kill methods: affs, damage,  and timed instant via death tarot. 

    Blademaster limb damage still confuses me too death.  I don't think the formula is ever going to be perfect, but some people seem to make it work.  With voidfist buff and on demand hypochondria, it's in a nice spot affliction wise too. As far as raiding, I would rather be almost any other class.  The melee is strong but the utility is lacking.  

    Paladin I can't comment on much.  Damnation is pretty sweet,  but it's affliction oriented more than limb damage in my opinion. If you mess up during break sequence, it's a reset.  I wouldn't touch this one again without some strength arties. Dsb seems to scale pretty well,  but even with max spec strength and torso damage, too many people just shrugged me off. Admittedly, I played with it for two days with a nut and didn't have strength arties.  I did have a level 3 sword, though(not even really required)
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