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City & House Promotion Changes

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  • TelendriethTelendrieth Member Posts: 214 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited February 2016
    Tael said:
    -snip-
    Cronyism is not the problem. The worst-case scenario there is a couple of people end up higher rank than they should be. Who cares. Stop worrying so much about how big your neighbour's car is and whether they really earned it.
    -snip-
    I think it's cute that you think I care about the size of someone's accomplishments compared to my own.

    What I'm worried about is what I've seen happen a few times within Achaea and other MUDs. There are rare situations when people get in power and abuse it. These individuals can make life hard on novices trying to advance that they flat out don't like. On top of making it hell for players to enjoy a house, this has caused the stagnation and death of a few houses over each of the IRE games. This is more of a fear in houses than in cities, from what I've seen.

    So while I'm ultimately interested to see how it pans out, I feel the need to point out the avenues for some pretty nasty situations that less fair individuals could manipulate.

    -Tel
  • ZukoZuko Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I do think this is a pretty functional system for Houses none the less.

    But honestly, I don't like the way this could affect city progression for younger members. So I wouldn't mind seeing city's maintain the old system of city favours, and Houses use the new system. It makes more sense in a House, but city is a little different. 
    Mami
  • AereidhnaAereidhna DallasMember Posts: 682 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I like the compromise Cyrene is taking - it seems like it will function much like the old system (it took a certain number of cityfavours to gain the next rank anyway). This is why I <3 Cyrene.

    House-wise I hope this will encourage Houses to revisit post-HR5 advancement and perhaps do a little adjusting - and maybe it will encourage people to -want- to progress beyond HR5 more. And I'm all for making it possible to favour people under HR5 to recognize their work, that restriction has always bugged the heck out of me (why couldn't they just not count if you were under HR5!). But disliking the -requiring- cityfavours to award a credit.

    Prythe
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The whole point of this change was freedom for orgs to shape their own experience. Orgs can now move folks up and down the ranks at will. Different ranks can now take on intrinsic meanings. HR3 is member, HR5 is "full" member, HR7 is "senior" full member, HR10 becomes "secretary", etc. Eventually, privileges will be full customizable. Houses, and to a lesser extent cities, will be able to completely customize their advancement programs into whatever form, shape, or pace they desire, free from the entanglements of archaic systems.

    If you didn't like the old system, congratulations, today is the dawn of a new era. The mechanics now work for you, instead of you trying to accomplish what you want within the confines of the old system, and you can orchestrate any path through the ranks you want. If you did like the old system, nothing has to change. Yes, technically favours won't automatically promote, but if you liked that form of progression you can absolutely institute a program that accomplishes the same thing, like Verrucht just laid out; X favours = promotion. Flexibility is the byword of the new changes, or so I hope.

    So far the only thing I didn't know/don't like is that HF/CFs must give out house credits, if that's true. I can tell you that -I- plan to give out house credits via HFs, but if your House doesn't want to do that, you shouldn't be forced to. You should be able to just use them as head-pats and 'atta-boys if that's what your org chooses. I think that'd be pretty lame and boring, might as well just "writelog house Bod did a good thing", but if you wanted that to be your system, then by all means it should be within your power to do so.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
    AereidhnaKyrra
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,720 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Reading comprehension for the win, folks. The announce says that they MAY specify an amount of credits from 0-50 bound credits. Nobody is under any obligation to provide a monetary award with a favour.

  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Verrucht said:
    Edit3: My mistake, you're required to put at least 1 bound credit in as a reward for favours. Which is kind of garbage.
    It appears that may not be the case.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,720 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aerek said:
    Verrucht said:
    Edit3: My mistake, you're required to put at least 1 bound credit in as a reward for favours. Which is kind of garbage.
    It appears that may not be the case.
    Sounds like a bug then, based on the verbage in the announcement. 

  • VerruchtVerrucht Member Posts: 269 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited February 2016
    As it stands:

    city favourcredits 0
    The reward must be between 1 and 50 credits.

    If this is a bug it would be nice to have it fixed.

    Edit: Tecton says it's being fixed. Yay Tecton.

    RazzloSkye
  • MagnarMagnar Member Posts: 35 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited February 2016
    Joining the house which offers the best credit amount per favour. Send offers :P
    QwynShirszaePieraMami
  • AereidhnaAereidhna DallasMember Posts: 682 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Magnar said:
    Joining the house which offers the best credit per favour. Send offers :P
    Considering to some folks House membership is just an extra credit sale to participate in, this becoming a thing is a legit concern, I think.
    Magnar
  • HellenHellen Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    On the one hand ranking up by favours gave an air of meritocracy about it. On the other, this will aid structure and internal building in many ways. Perhaps there could be an option to allow favours to give points to ranking up rather than credit rewards? I wonder how often that would be used, though.
    Blujixapug
  • VerruchtVerrucht Member Posts: 269 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Verrucht said:
    As it stands:

    city favourcredits 0
    The reward must be between 1 and 50 credits.

    If this is a bug it would be nice to have it fixed.

    Edit: Tecton says it's being fixed. Yay Tecton.
    Update: Now fixed! Yay @Tecton!

    RazzloAereidhna
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 4,842 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Are there safeguards from someone getting pissed and demoting everyone in the city that's ranked under them before quitting?

    Can you city demote/promote people even if they are offline like you could do with favours?


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    PieraKyrraMami
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    Are there safeguards from someone getting pissed and demoting everyone in the city that's ranked under them before quitting?

    Can you city demote/promote people even if they are offline like you could do with favours?
    You can only do 1 person at a time
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 4,842 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Zuko said:
    house demote matias Oathswearing
    You have demoted Matias to house rank 1.

    The serenade isn't here and it is still Daedalan so thinking they lifted the limit.
    Kiet said:
    Atalkez said:
    Are there safeguards from someone getting pissed and demoting everyone in the city that's ranked under them before quitting?

    Can you city demote/promote people even if they are offline like you could do with favours?
    You can only do 1 person at a time
    ?????


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,771 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Somebody once ragequit Shallam and kicked out the ruling council and some Ministers. I don't think it ended very well for them. We also had to spend weeks favouring people back up to their previous ranks when they were inducted back into the city.

    With the new system, undoing the demotion is just a case of promoting them as many times as they were demoted. Annoying, perhaps, but not really a big issue. I'm not sure there needs to be anything to prevent it.
    Tael
  • ValkynValkyn Member Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    @Atalkez Zuko was referring to house, specifically under hr5, which frequently need to be promoted several times a month. CIty or higher HR are different.

    AtalkezMami
  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Antonius said:
    Somebody once ragequit Shallam and kicked out the ruling council and some Ministers. I don't think it ended very well for them. We also had to spend weeks favouring people back up to their previous ranks when they were inducted back into the city.

    With the new system, undoing the demotion is just a case of promoting them as many times as they were demoted. Annoying, perhaps, but not really a big issue. I'm not sure there needs to be anything to prevent it.
    Yeah, the fact that it's easy to demote people while ragequitting means it's also pretty easy to undo all that damage.

    Assuming promotions are logged (if promotions aren't logged, they need to be), it shouldn't take much longer to undo than it did to do.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    Zuko said:
    house demote matias Oathswearing
    You have demoted Matias to house rank 1.

    The serenade isn't here and it is still Daedalan so thinking they lifted the limit.
    Kiet said:
    Atalkez said:
    Are there safeguards from someone getting pissed and demoting everyone in the city that's ranked under them before quitting?

    Can you city demote/promote people even if they are offline like you could do with favours?
    You can only do 1 person at a time
    ?????
    I don't know anymore :anguished: 
    ShirszaeAtalkez
  • MamiMami Member Posts: 82 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Playing devil's avocado, what if they include godfavours effects on this instead of just cr. Wondering if it will help for orgs with dormant gods or too open for abuse.
  • JonathinJonathin Grand Rapids, MIMember Posts: 3,323 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2016
    Give the Achaean playerbase the ability to grant favours and everyone will be walking around with nearly permanent favours. Housefavours do not give a combat advantage whereas godfavours do, so restraint will likely be nil.

    My site will remain up, but will not be maintained. The repository will continue to have scripts added to it if I decide to play another game. Maybe I'll see you around in Starmourn!
    Tutorials and scripts  The Repository

  • MamiMami Member Posts: 82 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sorry, with restrictions on godfavours, obvs.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    OH having the ability to bestow at most a highfavour doesn't seem too horrible, but it would need to be monitored closely.
    Mami
  • GawiGawi WashingtonMember Posts: 76 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished


    * Leaders of these organisations can now specify a credit amount to be awarded to favour recipients. 
    This can be anywhere from 0 - 50 bound credits from the city's coffers. HOUSE|CITY FAVOURCREDITS to 
    see and set this.


    For the most part I like the whole change except for this little section about credits. I can just see this being abused. I would rather just have people favour someone and message the house leader that they favoured someone and have the house leader pass out the credits if they choose that it is within the criteria we have set up or whatnot.  

    One thing I am curious about, with being able to check someones person favour log... how far back will these logs go? And will they be dated?

  • VayneVayne Rhode IslandMember Posts: 1,897 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This is a major change for Houses. Its intent is to help fix the problem of novices being put through their paces then having nothing to do after they become full members. Sure, this could simply extend the bureaucracy into the higher ranks, but it should be looked at as scaffolding for building more flexible and interesting programs for the House.
    image
  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 2,232 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I highly doubt most houses are going to give every member above x rank the ability to just pass out credits daily.  Without the credit bonus, I don't really see any point in using favors anymore.  It's a public acknowledgement, sure,  but it's no different than just saying thank you on ht or writing to logs. 

    As for city's, I think this is going to remove the ability to slowly demonstrate your worth.  Without a standardized system, which is going to look check listy, it's just going to be back to counting favors, which makes the fact that favors are now a glorified writelog seem pretty silly.  I think adding this functionality in addition to the old one would have made more sense.

    All in all, as someone that was pretty darn close to the next rank in city and house,  I am not going to say I am overly pleased.  I understand the push for this,  but getting months worth of work reset is kinda a downer.  As hard as it is to get city favors in some cities, I'm sure getting a promotion is going to be twice as fun. 
    HellenJadysAereidhna
  • JonathinJonathin Grand Rapids, MIMember Posts: 3,323 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah, I thought it was going to be house only with promote. I'm not so stoked about it being for city, too.

    My site will remain up, but will not be maintained. The repository will continue to have scripts added to it if I decide to play another game. Maybe I'll see you around in Starmourn!
    Tutorials and scripts  The Repository

  • MagentaMagenta EuropeMember Posts: 160 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Hellen has a valid point there. (Not just outta HoN love.)

    I think I like the new system, though. Gonna see how well it plays out. Oh and @Matias... if you feel like being screwed, you know where to look. ;) *duck*
    MatiasHellen
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