How are the other games going?

Kiet

And even 5+ years ago I was level 80 and unartied and doing fine except vs like 3-5 specific people (and, depending on class, I did fine even vs them). It's still more effort obviously.

Still, even now it depends on class. Like I've said repeatedly, some classes need absolutely 0 artefact investment to be 100% competitive and ready for being top tier.

Kayeil

Vaehl was always pretty good at figuring out strategies without being artied up as a combatant.

Valysha

I used to play Imperian for a while, up until two years ago. I had stopped MUDs altogether, taking a break and just relaxing with a simple, but popular MMO, up until literally this week, when I check an older email of mine, seeing this new retirement thing. I thought, you know, I'd give it a shot. I am needing a break from this simple gaming stuff anyhow, and here I am. First time in Achaea, first time playing any MUD in roughly two years, and I must say, I am already hooked! The population is great, the people are lovely, and there is plenty to do! And my favorite...Roleplay!

Oh yeah! The population in Imperian has always been rather small compared to the other IRE muds and it seemed to be in the same state as it was before. (30-70 people.) You'll see quite a bit less on qw, as 90% of the Imperians have plenty of artifacts.

So, how is it here? Has the population always been around 150-200? That's what I have been seeing for the past few days that I have been playing.

Kiet

Used to get 300-500 people, but that was before wow and co.

Valysha

Kiet said:

Used to get 300-500 people, but that was before wow and co.

Wow...that is a lot! 

Bianca

Cooper said:

You're a bit off the mark on there being a glass ceiling for PK without artefacts. 5+ years ago I'd probably agree, but there have been tons of changes since then that have brought artefact bonuses down quite a bit. There are a lot of classes now that don't need a single artefact to compete at the top levels. The artefact advantage allows you to be more lazy/unskilled and still win, but mechanically there isn't much artefacts will let you do that you can't do without them (there are exceptions, of course, this is just a general statement).

It's the hefty coding requirement that gets most people now.

Good to know! I think the general feeling about Achaea from Lusternia is that the game is far more artifact heavy. I'm curious as to what those classes are but I won't derail this thread with those questions.

Aegoth

Speaking as someone who was a very prevalent PKer in Lusternia (roll with Thoros and you'll get the idea), I would adamantly disagree that Lusternia doesn't have a glass ceiling. Demigod is a -necessity- in PK, as well as omitrans, whereas here in Achaea you can get by with tri-trans and tumble in survival.

Lusternia has a very low population for a very good reason: Estarra inundated it with too much stuff. As well, even if they were bad ideas that severely crippled the game, players learned the hard way that complaining about The Vision (tm) lead to harsh punishments (like getting kicked out of envoys, for example). The power creep got excessive... Curios, dingbat arties, you name it. It got to a point where all these mini-buffs added up to extreme advantages that newer players couldn't hope to achieve.

That and a lot of the players in certain orgs have become very caustic over time (Estarra had to message an entire org to "stop being toxic"). I have very fond memories of the game, but between poor administrative decisions on Estarra's part, as well as the playerbase being spread WAY too thin (6 orgs with a peak population of about 40), the game has pretty much died. A lot of very talented players have disappeared over the years as well, and being an oldbie, that's hit home too, and made the game less fun for me. I poke around every now and then, but it really does seem like logging into a ghost town.

Citrus

I remember when they were pumping out a new game every year, Imp then Lust then Midkemia.  I think they spread the good community they already had too thin, mixed with the fact that WoW got extremely popular around the same time, killed the populations of all the games except Achaea.  I always wanted to try out one of the other IRE games seriously, but when I saw 15-40 people on in any of the games it always made me not care about the world, there's nothing more boring than basically playing an MMO by yourself.  Almost wish they would just reconsolidate the games and have 1-2 popular games instead of 1 popular game and 4 mostly dead games that drive people off do to lack of playerbase.

Bianca

Aegoth said:

Speaking as someone who was a very prevalent PKer in Lusternia (roll with Thoros and you'll get the idea), I would adamantly disagree that Lusternia doesn't have a glass ceiling. Demigod is a -necessity- in PK, as well as omitrans, whereas here in Achaea you can get by with tri-trans and tumble in survival.

Lusternia has a very low population for a very good reason: Estarra inundated it with too much stuff. As well, even if they were bad ideas that severely crippled the game, players learned the hard way that complaining about The Vision (tm) lead to harsh punishments (like getting kicked out of envoys, for example). The power creep got excessive... Curios, dingbat arties, you name it. It got to a point where all these mini-buffs added up to extreme advantages that newer players couldn't hope to achieve.

That and a lot of the players in certain orgs have become very caustic over time (Estarra had to message an entire org to "stop being toxic"). I have very fond memories of the game, but between poor administrative decisions on Estarra's part, as well as the playerbase being spread WAY too thin (6 orgs with a peak population of about 40), the game has pretty much died. A lot of very talented players have disappeared over the years as well, and being an oldbie, that's hit home too, and made the game less fun for me. I poke around every now and then, but it really does seem like logging into a ghost town.

Just to clarify, I think your info is very dated and in some cases very inaccurate. Demigod hasn't been a necessity in over 5 years, but even if it were, it's extraordinarily simply to get these days. Group grinding aetherspace make the journey quick and painless. Omni trans is certainly not a requirement. There are entire skillsets like arts and influence that have zero affect on the PK scene.

The game certainly is inundated with "stuff," and it's way too much in terms of collectibles. However, the overhaul has sought to bring most of it in line. The high end damage artifact, for example, only gives a 9% damage buff over a player without an artifact. The most an artifact equipped player can ever get over a maxed out casual player is 9%. There are absolute ceilings on all vital and damage buffs making it much easier to balance and much more accessible for casual players these days. The reality is the collectibles, while overwhelming in sheer volume, are 95% unnecessary. 

As a long time envoy, no envoy has been removed for arguing with "The Vision." We actually argue with it to this day. There have only been a handful to be removed in the many years I've been an envoy, one was for outing an Admin, the other two that I know of were known for their tirades over envoys and on reports. 

The only org that has received direct intervention from Estarra was Glomdoring 9 some odd years ago. Peak is over 100, not 40, and the game is by no means "dead." Conflict has waned over the years, certainly, but has its peaks and valleys. More valleys than peaks admittedly, but it maintains a thriving RP population with a solid showing of PKers when things get exciting. Group fights can still bring upwards of 20 people.

It's a great game! I'm debating moving on simply because I have played for so long and want to play something new, and it certainly as its flaws (sometimes glaring) but I don't think it fair to paint it the way you are. 

At any rate, hopefully I'll see everyone around! Achaea was fun a decade ago. I look forward to trying to out again.

Trevize

Citrus said:

I remember when they were pumping out a new game every year, Imp then Lust then Midkemia.  I think they spread the good community they already had too thin, mixed with the fact that WoW got extremely popular around the same time, killed the populations of all the games except Achaea.  I always wanted to try out one of the other IRE games seriously, but when I saw 15-40 people on in any of the games it always made me not care about the world, there's nothing more boring than basically playing an MMO by yourself.  Almost wish they would just reconsolidate the games and have 1-2 popular games instead of 1 popular game and 4 mostly dead games that drive people off do to lack of playerbase.

The only one a year apart was Imerian-Lusternia. Aetolia was two years before Imperian, Achaea was five years before Aetolia, and Midkemia was five years after Lusternia.

Achaea - 1996
Aetolia - 2001
Imperian - 2003
Lusternia - 2004
Midkemia - 2009

Citrus

Trevize said:

Citrus said:

I remember when they were pumping out a new game every year, Imp then Lust then Midkemia.  I think they spread the good community they already had too thin, mixed with the fact that WoW got extremely popular around the same time, killed the populations of all the games except Achaea.  I always wanted to try out one of the other IRE games seriously, but when I saw 15-40 people on in any of the games it always made me not care about the world, there's nothing more boring than basically playing an MMO by yourself.  Almost wish they would just reconsolidate the games and have 1-2 popular games instead of 1 popular game and 4 mostly dead games that drive people off do to lack of playerbase.

The only one a year apart was Imerian-Lusternia. Aetolia was two years before Imperian, Achaea was five years before Aetolia, and Midkemia was five years after Lusternia.

Achaea - 1996
Aetolia - 2001
Imperian - 2003
Lusternia - 2004
Midkemia - 2009

Ahh right, it was Aet -> Lust that were all right next to each other, couldn't remember the exact dates.

Trevize

Citrus said:

Trevize said:

Citrus said:

I remember when they were pumping out a new game every year, Imp then Lust then Midkemia.  I think they spread the good community they already had too thin, mixed with the fact that WoW got extremely popular around the same time, killed the populations of all the games except Achaea.  I always wanted to try out one of the other IRE games seriously, but when I saw 15-40 people on in any of the games it always made me not care about the world, there's nothing more boring than basically playing an MMO by yourself.  Almost wish they would just reconsolidate the games and have 1-2 popular games instead of 1 popular game and 4 mostly dead games that drive people off do to lack of playerbase.

The only one a year apart was Imerian-Lusternia. Aetolia was two years before Imperian, Achaea was five years before Aetolia, and Midkemia was five years after Lusternia.

Achaea - 1996
Aetolia - 2001
Imperian - 2003
Lusternia - 2004
Midkemia - 2009

Ahh right, it was Aet -> Lust that were all right next to each other, couldn't remember the exact dates.

I'm also wondering how much retirement is going to shift player counts! Considering we've already heard several speak up on the forums, and there's a reason the forums in games are known as the 'vocal minority' there could potentially be a lot more looking to try out one of the others.

Beyond that, there is a certain draw to smaller playerbases. Easier to be recognised, and smaller communities tend to have a tighter-knit feel. I don't know how much that's the case in the other games, but Lusternia definitely had that for me. Not for everyone (hence smaller!) but definitely a niche.

Ismay

I've tried all the IRE muds and have never been able to get any characters to stick in any of them aside from Achaea. In my most humble opinion, the bottom two consist of MKO and Lusternia. MKO is only there because of their language barriers and the very very annoying drain on endurance for movement. Lusternia is simply a hot mess as a whole.

Aegoth

Bianca said:

Aegoth said:

Speaking as someone who was a very prevalent PKer in Lusternia (roll with Thoros and you'll get the idea), I would adamantly disagree that Lusternia doesn't have a glass ceiling. Demigod is a -necessity- in PK, as well as omitrans, whereas here in Achaea you can get by with tri-trans and tumble in survival.

Lusternia has a very low population for a very good reason: Estarra inundated it with too much stuff. As well, even if they were bad ideas that severely crippled the game, players learned the hard way that complaining about The Vision (tm) lead to harsh punishments (like getting kicked out of envoys, for example). The power creep got excessive... Curios, dingbat arties, you name it. It got to a point where all these mini-buffs added up to extreme advantages that newer players couldn't hope to achieve.

That and a lot of the players in certain orgs have become very caustic over time (Estarra had to message an entire org to "stop being toxic"). I have very fond memories of the game, but between poor administrative decisions on Estarra's part, as well as the playerbase being spread WAY too thin (6 orgs with a peak population of about 40), the game has pretty much died. A lot of very talented players have disappeared over the years as well, and being an oldbie, that's hit home too, and made the game less fun for me. I poke around every now and then, but it really does seem like logging into a ghost town.

Just to clarify, I think your info is very dated and in some cases very inaccurate. Demigod hasn't been a necessity in over 5 years, but even if it were, it's extraordinarily simply to get these days. Group grinding aetherspace make the journey quick and painless. Omni trans is certainly not a requirement. There are entire skillsets like arts and influence that have zero affect on the PK scene.

The game certainly is inundated with "stuff," and it's way too much in terms of collectibles. However, the overhaul has sought to bring most of it in line. The high end damage artifact, for example, only gives a 9% damage buff over a player without an artifact. The most an artifact equipped player can ever get over a maxed out casual player is 9%. There are absolute ceilings on all vital and damage buffs making it much easier to balance and much more accessible for casual players these days. The reality is the collectibles, while overwhelming in sheer volume, are 95% unnecessary. 

As a long time envoy, no envoy has been removed for arguing with "The Vision." We actually argue with it to this day. There have only been a handful to be removed in the many years I've been an envoy, one was for outing an Admin, the other two that I know of were known for their tirades over envoys and on reports. 

The only org that has received direct intervention from Estarra was Glomdoring 9 some odd years ago. Peak is over 100, not 40, and the game is by no means "dead." Conflict has waned over the years, certainly, but has its peaks and valleys. More valleys than peaks admittedly, but it maintains a thriving RP population with a solid showing of PKers when things get exciting. Group fights can still bring upwards of 20 people.

It's a great game! I'm debating moving on simply because I have played for so long and want to play something new, and it certainly as its flaws (sometimes glaring) but I don't think it fair to paint it the way you are. 

At any rate, hopefully I'll see everyone around! Achaea was fun a decade ago. I look forward to trying to out again.

Perhaps my bittervet is showing too much. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as i don't really play Lusty anymore, and have 0 experience with the overhaul.

Just to correct one thing though: Daevos was removed for criticizing the vision, and everyone knows him as a cool-headed person. I think Mederrach was too, but he's hot-headed.

See you in game! Beware of Holocausts

Qwyn

I've been trying to get back into Lusternia. It's a frustrating experience - the orgs are empty, things are beyond confusing and overly complex, and the newbie experience has serious flaws. Beyond being uninformative, it's riddled with bugs and incompatibilities with the HTML client. I've tried both a newbie and a returning character - as a newbie, I was completely ignored. My returning character, on the other hand, had enough history and fame to attract notice, and that was disconcerting in its own way - the game must be empty, because my character was chatted up and had attention lavished on it to a kinda disconcerting level. A returning character shouldn't be given the pressure of helping to "fix" an org. Their curing system is....TBH, I have no idea. I think they may have one, but if they do, it's bugged, because it never worked for me. The orgs are very empty - 0 to 3 people is basically all I ever saw for CWHO. I have a lot of love for the theory behind Lusternia...there are tons of concepts to keep conflict heavy and activity high - but with the org sizes as they are, it's uncomfortable to play, as there is too much pressure to be useful. However, for a skilled player with an org-savior enjoyment (and I've been that type of player before, so no judgement!), it's probably a really great play experience. For newbies, probably not as much, but skilled players looking for a high-level leadership challenge might really enjoy it!

Sarapis

Trevize said:

Citrus said:

I remember when they were pumping out a new game every year, Imp then Lust then Midkemia.  I think they spread the good community they already had too thin, mixed with the fact that WoW got extremely popular around the same time, killed the populations of all the games except Achaea.  I always wanted to try out one of the other IRE games seriously, but when I saw 15-40 people on in any of the games it always made me not care about the world, there's nothing more boring than basically playing an MMO by yourself.  Almost wish they would just reconsolidate the games and have 1-2 popular games instead of 1 popular game and 4 mostly dead games that drive people off do to lack of playerbase.

The only one a year apart was Imerian-Lusternia. Aetolia was two years before Imperian, Achaea was five years before Aetolia, and Midkemia was five years after Lusternia.

Achaea - 1996
Aetolia - 2001
Imperian - 2003
Lusternia - 2004
Midkemia - 2009

Achaea opened in 1997 actually.

To be honest, the reason we opened Aetolia, Imperian, and Lusternia was because Achaea's server couldn't handle further growth, and we're not a game set up, by design, to be sharded (multiple copies of the same game running). MKO was opened because we had the license for the game from an effort to build a 3d MMO based on Midkemia back in 2003, and decided to do something with it. 

Kiskan

Imperian is getting a noticeable influx of retirees from Achaea and Lusternia in particular.  Best of all, a lot of these people seem very interested in PvP.  Some people poking their head in have been a bit worried about Imperian's reputation from a few years ago, though, and it's worth noting that Imperian did go through a dark time with its PvP.  It was a sort of Wild West for awhile, at a time when Achaea still had PK rules that read like an Itunes user term agreement.  It also still had XP loss (no XP loss now), and even the people who were doing the griefing say things were pretty horribly griefy .  

It's




now.
  

The only kinda sorta warning I can think of right now is to avoid magick circle to start with if you want to get going with PK (sorry magick guys).  They simply do not have very much PvP expertise to help you at the moment (although they do have some amazing professions).

Krypton

How is Midkemia going? No one's talked about it (maybe because no one's played it?...).

I could just knock on their ex-Producer's door and ask, but that would probably give me a perspective clouded in all manners of ways.

Sarathai

Sarapis said:

To be honest, the reason we opened Aetolia, Imperian, and Lusternia was because Achaea's server couldn't handle further growth, and we're not a game set up, by design, to be sharded (multiple copies of the same game running). MKO was opened because we had the license for the game from an effort to build a 3d MMO based on Midkemia back in 2003, and decided to do something with it.

Out of interest, in current times (advancement of technology etc.), could Achaea's server handle the growth? Or is it not really feasible because of how the game is coded on the back end?

Blujixapug

Krypton said:

I could just knock on their ex-Producer's door and ask, but that would probably give me a perspective clouded in all manners of ways.

omg do it

Lyrin

Reading those comments about Lusternia makes me sad...

I played there for about 8 years and experienced most of my favourite Mud Memories (TM) as a player in New Celest.    

Even compared to other IRE games, the world is hugely original and thoroughly immersive.  The histories (read these if you haven't had a chance before) set a stage where your character's choices of guild, city, race and patron feel genuinely tied to the lore and impactful on the world around you.  Various mechanics others have discussed, such as planar travel, aetherspace, domoths, village politics etc. provide a framework for the various factions to vie for influence that I haven't seen done as well in other MUDs.

I originally left Achaea for Lusternia when Shallam was regularly getting beaten into the ground during the pre-Qashar era.   I remember wanting to play with the awesomeness that was Tarot as a good aligned character without being a f***ing jester.    This led me to Lusternia and the Celestines.

Over the years, this has swung back the other way and now a big negative of Lusternia for me is the lack of combat balance.   The latest rebalancing of Lusternian combat, known as the "overhaul", essentially put on hold the envoy process which had previously been the channel for addressing various issues with 1v1 & group combat.   This sort of coincided with Tecton, Makarious & co. making huge strides in combat balance here in Achaea so it was a pretty easy choice to jump back across.   I understand the overhaul is almost done now, so perhaps things will start to pick up in Lusternia again.

All that said, if Achaea and Lusternia had a similar degree of combat balance, I can get far more nerd-cited by the idea of striding out into Nil, dropping meteors on heretics as Hope's Defender wielding a flaming symbol of Raziela than I can get about any race/class/ethos based in Achaean lore - which I think says a lot about the quality of that game world that Estarra & Roark have created.

I'd definitely recommend checking Lusternia out - if only to read & experience the amazing lore and quests!

Aegoth

Achaea's combat mechanics + Lusternia's lore would be the best game ever

Cadalem

Krypton said:

How is Midkemia going? No one's talked about it (maybe because no one's played it?...).

It has that weird anti-quality of life focus (and I'm still butthurt about that movement endurance cost despite years passed) and that does "wonders" for midkemian playerbase size. In the past this used to be compensated by all the cool people and RP inclusivity but many of them are gone and interacting with the same 0 - 7 people gets old fast. There is also a distinct Big Brother feeling when playerbase is small while admins are active and very anal about automation.

Vurge

I played Imperian for 12 years, with breaks here and there, 10 of those years were pretty solid.  The roleplay (though not my specific involvement) is top notch, a lot of the ideas there are advanced, Achievements, they've had multi-class for years, QOL things.  Touted as some of the best PVP in IRE, I can personally attest that if you're looking for skilled fighters, you're going to find some of the best there.  The plus side being, they are willing to help you learn.  I've made many lifelong friends playing there, though that can be said for many things.  If you're truly interested in Imperian, talk to me personally via an in-game message or forum message and I can go more in-depth with you about classes, cities, things such as this.  It's a small community, which can be a big change from Achaea, the upside is like being on a small naval ship.  You know who the bad people are, and they're weeded out quickly.  (sometimes)

Jahk

I'm actually somebody from Aetolia that's dipping their toes into the waters here just to give something different a try. 

Aetolia (as somebody mentioned) is absolutely fantastic for quality of life type things compared to here. Everything you could ever need is in GMCP, and they regularly add to it. There was a recent overhaul of their auto walking system to essentially make it like a built in mapper. You can ROOM SEARCH <room> of any room you've previously explored, and it'll give you the vnum to path find to. 

Aetolia is heavily, heavily RP focused, with the exception of out of character clans and webs. There's not much tolerance for quasi-OOC things mentioned in-game, and it's not out of the ordinary to have RP sessions that last a while between folks just writing out long, paragraph-sized emotes to each other. I haven't been playing here super long, but that extra emphasis on RP and seeking out interaction is something I'm definitely missing, but can catch on quick when somebody starts it. I kinda cringed seeing "Little Ducky" or whatever as the automatic title for Jesters, but that might be a result of Aetolia's more serious RP. The snuggle/pounce/rawr/glomp stuff is something the community actively tends to push away.

The administration is super quick to help integrate whatever mechanics they can to help with roleplay. I believe they were the first game to add in the ability to prefix your emotes with parenthesis to have text show up before hand. You can do this way says too, like:

say (Scorning disdainfully,) Hrph grump grump -> Scorning disdainfully, you say, "Hrph grump grump."

Tie it in with the attire system that lets you customize how your clothes are being worn, emotes being able to be appended to pretty much every action (get, drop, mount, dismount, etc.) and the stage is pretty much set for RP with all the tools you'd need.

Where they struggle a bit I think is active players. Lots of folks are active on the dark side of things, and that's where the bulk of their PK-oriented people are at, leaving things sometimes a bit one-sided. Every now and then an awesome leader will pop up in one of the light-sided cities though that gets everybody hyped up and learning to fight, and then the shift can change a bit. 

tl;dr Aetolia is phenomenal with its quality of life features, and the community there labels it the RP game of IRE, which is a self-perpetuating kind of thing that keeps everybody excited to maintain that. On the flip side, the population can be shifty, and the power balance is pretty heavily one-sided (but can and has changed). 

Valysha

Kiskan said:

Imperian is getting a noticeable influx of retirees from Achaea and Lusternia in particular.  Best of all, a lot of these people seem very interested in PvP.  Some people poking their head in have been a bit worried about Imperian's reputation from a few years ago, though, and it's worth noting that Imperian did go through a dark time with its PvP.  It was a sort of Wild West for awhile, at a time when Achaea still had PK rules that read like an Itunes user term agreement.  It also still had XP loss (no XP loss now), and even the people who were doing the griefing say things were pretty horribly griefy .  

It's




now.
  

The only kinda sorta warning I can think of right now is to avoid magick circle to start with if you want to get going with PK (sorry magick guys).  They simply do not have very much PvP expertise to help you at the moment (although they do have some amazing professions).

That is exactly true on how the pvp was back then. It has changed a lot, and the pvp in Imperian is quite interesting, and yes...do not start off in Magick if you wish to learn pvp. My opinion...<3 Demonic. That's where I was!

Szanthax

Valysha said:

I used to play Imperian for a while, up until two years ago. I had stopped MUDs altogether, taking a break and just relaxing with a simple, but popular MMO, up until literally this week, when I check an older email of mine, seeing this new retirement thing. I thought, you know, I'd give it a shot. I am needing a break from this simple gaming stuff anyhow, and here I am. First time in Achaea, first time playing any MUD in roughly two years, and I must say, I am already hooked! The population is great, the people are lovely, and there is plenty to do! And my favorite...Roleplay!

Oh yeah! The population in Imperian has always been rather small compared to the other IRE muds and it seemed to be in the same state as it was before. (30-70 people.) You'll see quite a bit less on qw, as 90% of the Imperians have plenty of artifacts.

So, how is it here? Has the population always been around 150-200? That's what I have been seeing for the past few days that I have been playing.

Just wanted to let you know @Valysha , my interactions with you have been amazing. 

Infact there have been a fair amount of our newer players that just made things very enjoyable. I know i don't know everything... or even a lot... or most things. but just being able to answer questions that are simple to me but not to a brand new player just makes the experience very enjoyable. Thanks!

Kasya

Speaking as someone who's played Imperian for all of three days now, there's a lot to love, if you don't mind the smaller population. Antioch seems to always have people around, and players are really friendly and helpful. There's a lot of interesting features, some really nice convenience things (no xp loss on death, automatic gold pick up, inrift all upon death) and Outrider is by far my favourite class. Pretty much each faction has unique classes, or abilities/skills that are faction specific. 

I won't ever leave Achaea completely, but for the time being I'm playing far more on Imperian. 

Ahmet

Kayeil said:

Some of these things have been like... recently liquid rift was added, and I know that was a feature on Lusternia long before Achaea.

Wot

Pls tell me this is actually a thing

Kasya

Yes. Not in the help files yet I don't think. But it's a thing.

Edit: Here's the announce post, @Ahmethttp://www.achaea.com/game/news/Achaea/Announce/4456