Alcohol brewing

Aktillum

This is a terrible idea for several reasons but I'm going to post it anyways.

I want to own an alcohol distillery in Achaea. Particularly whiskey, though I guess you could also have microbreweries for the hipsters.

This needs to be as realistic as possible, with several things effecting the quality of your alcohol:

Drying damp malt over peat fires
Aging your whiskey in barrels (sherry, oak, cherrywood, etc)
Letting it sit in barrels for 15 IG years = 15 year old whiskey

Please let this happen.

Tibitha

Also wine! And be able to bottle them under a specific name, e.g. Targossian Red - 700AF.

Alaskar

This would be awesome

Grom

As a homebrewer outside the game, I could definitely see this making for a fun gold and time sink.

add in some extra gathering material and some rare and exotic items you could find along the way and it really could be fun, even some sailing type quests that could net you that rare rum barrel you want to age your latest batch in or something.

Fianna

Why do I suspect this ends with half the Southern Vashnars being converted into wall-to-wall rum industry?

(I'm in favour, though!)

Sarapis

It's not a terrible idea by any means, though realism would not be a huge goal insofar as realistic details would only appeal to the tiny minority of people who are Achaeans and hardcore whiskey lovers. A vineyard/winery system was an early system I designed for Achaea, but it was trying way too hard to be realistic and was overly complicated as a result. It also tried to produce objective quality scores based on a large number of factors, which was a mistake. I discarded the system in any case.

What I do like is making a bunch of choices in terms of time (what year did you bottle it or cask it, to @Tibitha's point and for how long) and materials (what did you cask it in, what ingredients went into it). That lets players produce fairly unique beverages (nobody can make a year 700 after year 700 is over). We'd also no doubt make casks/barrels have 'leakage' meaning the longer you age them, the less you get out of them and some form of cellaring/storage fees to make it cost something to have/produce older vintages.

I'd imagine the process of doing this as essentially taking your chosen ingredients to an NPC-run distillery/winery and then paying them to produce it, cellar/store it, and bottle it eventually. 

The result would be an adjective-combination type result like blacksmithing produces "Year 700 Targossian Cabernet Sauvignon" (although I think we'd probably make up our own grape names for wines....something about grape names we use today bugs me). Then on drinking it, it'd be something algorithmic like,

"You hold a small glass of beautifully-aged Aktillum's Bane, savoring its nose, which is redolent of wet humgii and Sliths' toejam.
<pause> 
Sipping it carefully, you relish the notes of disappointed expectations, unidentified roadkill, and Lorielan's betraying ways."

Trey

I'd almost prefer if it were a system like cooking is now, with different patterns to copy like glass, bottle, tumbler etc.

Szanthax

I kind of like everything about this.

Aktillum

Sarapis said:

It's not a terrible idea by any means, though realism would not be a huge goal insofar as realistic details would only appeal to the tiny minority of people who are Achaeans and hardcore whiskey lovers. A vineyard/winery system was an early system I designed for Achaea, but it was trying way too hard to be realistic and was overly complicated as a result. It also tried to produce objective quality scores based on a large number of factors, which was a mistake. I discarded the system in any case.

I'm not sure why I prefaced my post with "this is a terrible idea", other then the fact I assumed people would demand it be similar to Cooking where you write your own food descriptions. Your adjective-combination type idea is much better and more in-line with what I was suggesting. You could even, if you wanted, add in new types of ingredients to Gathering skill, to really enhance the system, and rare / exotic ingredients sold by traveling NPCs.

Though your post seemed to imply limiting it to wine, pleeaase consider whisk(e)y! There's so many details that go into a fine scotch (but of course we can't call it 'scotch' in Achaea).

Gamden

Cmon on in,have some of my Jaru vineyard Y450 Pinotage blend...

Man alive this can be awesome
Some colletors wine...
Two thumbs up for this idea

Trey

Aktillum said:

Your adjective-combination type idea is much better and more in-line with what I was suggesting.

This really is a subjective opinion, but I'm going to say you're wrong anyway. The adjective-combination type severely limits the freedom of design you have at your disposal. All respect to Matt but I can't stand the way new forging works. Standardized stats were necessary, but the rest of it

Tahquil

I like the idea of having it the same as other trade skills but have a list on what affect different plants have in methods and allow the use of herbs/minerals as well as ingredients I.e fermenting bayberry lends sickly sweet flavour while steeping it makes a bitter tea.

Sarapis

Trey said:

Aktillum said:

Your adjective-combination type idea is much better and more in-line with what I was suggesting.

This really is a subjective opinion, but I'm going to say you're wrong anyway. The adjective-combination type severely limits the freedom of design you have at your disposal. All respect to Matt but I can't stand the way new forging works. Standardized stats were necessary, but the rest of it

Well, the other option is for every single sword to look the same like they used to, which gives you no freedom of design at all, so I'm not really sure what the complaint is. New forging gives you way more freedom of design than previous forging. 

Tahquil

I think @Trey's trying to say is that the adjective/subjective style of customisation that occurs with forging and comparing it to our cooking/clothing/jewellery customisation system we have the first style is drastically limiting.

Kiet

Yeah but they've already stated they don't want yet more customization options that require admin oversight.

Aktillum

Tahquil said:

I think @Trey's trying to say is that the adjective/subjective style of customisation that occurs with forging and comparing it to our cooking/clothing/jewellery customisation system we have the first style is drastically limiting.

That was my fear for this idea With a system that Sarapis described, with enough combinations of ingredients, casks, etc, players could produce fairly unique spirits to the game. Fine whiskey and wine would be great. Leave it in the players hands though, with custom-made descriptions like tailoring/jewellery, and we'll be seeing pink frozen margaritas, mojitos, and redbull-vodkas pop up in every shop

Trey

Sarapis said:

Trey said:

Aktillum said:

Your adjective-combination type idea is much better and more in-line with what I was suggesting.

This really is a subjective opinion, but I'm going to say you're wrong anyway. The adjective-combination type severely limits the freedom of design you have at your disposal. All respect to Matt but I can't stand the way new forging works. Standardized stats were necessary, but the rest of it

Well, the other option is for every single sword to look the same like they used to, which gives you no freedom of design at all, so I'm not really sure what the complaint is. New forging gives you way more freedom of design than previous forging. 

Tahquil got it right. There are simultaneously too many options while not being versatile enough. I can't gripe about anyone trying to improve on something for the good of the game, but as personal tastes go 'a blah, blah thing' isn't any more desirable than what the defaults were.

That and the unannounced forging changes cost me the opportunity for a custom fullplate, but that doesn't have anything to do with how the system is structured  and I'll geipe about that until my dying breath (or you let me n/d and customize a fullplate *flutter*)

Trey

I'll add more detail when I'm not at work, an example of what a forging style alcohol crafting system would look like versus a cooking style.

Sarapis

Kiet said:

Yeah but they've already stated they don't want yet more customization options that require admin oversight.

Correct.

Tibitha

I suspect this was kind of what Sarapis was talking about, but rather than the "choose your modifiers" it'd be cool if the modifiers were as a result of your actions/ingredients/the weather/year/location or whatever when making it. With some obscure ones that are hard to figure out/acquire.

Klendathu

Just like the blademaster blade quest!

Kakotas

I would love a system similar to this but I almost feel like I would like it to be something that was more controlled via organizations. In other words Org would purchase the right to have a distiller/vineyard/etc and provide the land/materials to construct it then would charge a fee to produce something according to modifiers. (That also leaves the room for there to be modifiers that are regional to achaea.) You could also simply provide places where you would gather the required ingredients to add a second layer of modifiers (example dwarven wheat fields from inhibir produce something then the pash valley grapes produce something different from another valley with grapes). It's a bit more complicated on the front end but it ends up being better on the back end.))

Bonus for Admin it's double or triple gold sinks... Sink for the org investing, sink for the person brewing, and sink for the land/materials needed to produce it.

Tahquil

Trey said:

I'll add more detail when I'm not at work, an example of what a forging style alcohol crafting system would look like versus a cooking style.

an elegant, elegant whiskey

Trey

Yeah, pretty much. This is the kind of thing I want to be able to do though, as an example here's a few of the things I added to (and they got rid of eventually, the jerks) the Merchants Bar and Lounge when I was Overseer.

Drinks for the Merchants Bar and Lounge

=======================================

- stout ale (a stout bottle of emerald glass)

- A glimmering green bottle wrapped in faded parchment sits here.

- This squat verdant bottle contains a murky black ale, a faint effervescence lazily rising to the surface. A faded parchment label wraps around the middle with a tower-stamped coin depicted expertly in the centre, the words 'Sovereign Stout' ringing it in gloss black calligraphy. A mushroomed cork sealed in crimson wax plugs the neck firmly, a single gold coin affixed to the top.

---------------------

FIRST SIP

---------------------

As you crack the wax and pull the cork, a pleasantly bitter scent rises from the neck. You take a generous pull off the bottle, the heady hints of creamy kawhe and bitter chocolate playing across your tongue as the almost syrupy brew flows down your throat.

Pulling the cork from a stout bottle of emerald glass, $drinker takes a generous swig of the ale within.

--------------------

OTHER SIPS

--------------------

The rich, distinctly bitter flavour of the stout ale fills your mouth as you take a drink from the green glass bottle.

An emerald glass bottle catches the light momentarily as $drinker lifts it to $his/$her mouth.

=====================================

- pale ale (a slim bottle of cobalt glass)

- A brilliant azure sheen reflects off of a slim glass bottle sitting here.

- The bright blue hue of this slim glass catches the light, reflecting shimmering colours as the pale ale within bubbles away merrily. A grey parchment label circles the middle, an embossed section of gold depicting a towering statuesque figure, the words 'Aureus Ale' framing it in handsome block lettering. A tapered cork sealed in silvery wax plugs the neck firmly, a single gold coin affixed to the top.

--------------------

FIRST SIP

--------------------

Pulling the cork from a slim bottle of cobalt glass with an audible 'POP', a crisp aroma arises from the neck as you take a swig of the citrine ale within. The spicy undertones of coriander and cardamom complement the bitter ale as it bubbles merrily down your throat.

A loud 'POP' draws the eye as $drinker pulls the cork from a slim cobalt bottle, taking a swig of the pale ale within.

-------------------

OTHER SIPS

-------------------

Taking a generous pull from a slim bottle of cobalt glass, you savour the hints of spice accompanying the fine ale within.

$drinker takes a swig from a cobalt glass bottle, the brilliant blue hue catching the light momentarily.

Skye

They still have those in the old Merchant estate. Or at least they did already. I really like them

Kakotas

I think @Draekar, @Faur, @Eril and I came up with the best drinks in sapience before they went and blew up the Templar tavern. That being said I think a way of crafting drinks is innocuous enough to be a decent area we should be able to create though I could see for admin sake limiting it somewhat.

Qwyn

Aetolia has a brewing skill, similar to cooking, tailoring, etc, where there is room for creative descriptions. It's fun! I have no idea what the approval process is like here, though - I imagine it's more stressful and time-intensive for admin, since the player base is so much bigger?

Draekar

Kakotas said:

I think @Draekar, @Faur, @Eril and I came up with the best drinks in sapience before they went and blew up the Templar tavern. That being said I think a way of crafting drinks is innocuous enough to be a decent area we should be able to create though I could see for admin sake limiting it somewhat.

I miss the Templar Estate alot, it was by no means the best House Hall in Achaea but for our group of players it was super functional and facilitated a lot of House gathering and RP, which was some of the most enjoyable times in Achaea I have been part of. We even had our House Estate feature in a number of local and world RP events which was pretty cool too!

Those drinks were awesome too. Working on those with Miramar and Phaestus was a ton of fun. Designing the Raging Varick was such a hilarious process through so many individuals who helped refine and contribute to the final version. Getting to sit around and drink them with Miramar and then with Varick was awesome as well.

Faur

BTW, the Molotov Cocktail's still the best. Eat THAT, Templar scum!

Draekar

Faur said:

BTW, the Molotov Cocktail's still the best. Eat THAT, Templar scum!

Best drink still in existence, yes. RIP Templar Tavern

Kakotas

@Draekar You guys need to hire a new master forging dwarf and let Erendil return to his true calling...