A look at Satyrs...

Drot

Basileios said:

Mmn.  Well, then just giving 3 stats, I guess.  I'd just like to stop sobbing to myself over how bad Satyrs are compared to their lore of "WE'RE PARTIERS!  Good lord do we have a weak constitution and alcohol screws us up so bad."

Yeah merrymaker lets you step on people's heads. Not someone I wanna party with.

Cynlael

Kiet said:

If you're a mage you don't care about dex or str at all. 

(Not limited to mages but) I wish strength functioned the way it does in Imperian, where strength dictates the type of shield you can hold, rather than having shield limited to class.

Valkyn

Valkyn said:

If I could be atavian serpent with 12 con and 11 int or Str that'd be amazing. 

I think I must have been drunk when I made this statement. Or half asleep. That seems likelier.

I think I was thinking of mhun stats. She's too embedded in Atavian RP to switch that now anyway, but damn that celerity bonus would be nice if not for the missing con.

Krypton

Or give Atavians celerity..... like I mean they can hover quickly through rooms..... right?.....

Antonius

Or buy the artefact (power) that gives you the same bonus.

Shirszae

Buying arties is not the answer to everything. If it was this would not come up in the first place.

Valkyn

The thing about celerity is it stacks, mhun + artie = faster faster. Or at least that's what I was told. It's not like Atavian + ring = atavian flying now worthless.

Kiet

Valkyn said:

The thing about celerity is it stacks, mhun + artie = faster faster. Or at least that's what I was told. It's not like Atavian + ring = atavian flying now worthless.

It does stack, folllowing Trance (mhun + artie) around when I had mass led to a very swift praying.

Anedhel

I really hate the idea of adding more constitution to any race/stat package. There're far too many people con-spec'd in Achaea as it is, it makes fighting such a drag

Atalkez

Anedhel said:

I really hate the idea of adding more constitution to any race/stat package. There're far too many people con-spec'd in Achaea as it is, it makes fighting such a drag

Uh, what? 

How does not being able to just dor dsl target make fighting a drag?

Anedhel

If you don't get why extending prep times for any limb damage class bar those with fixed limb damages as well as trying to balance defences that were put in when people's health was way lower than it is now makes fighting less enjoyable than it ought to be is a drag, then I guess I can't really explain it.

ETA: I'd be fine with prep abilities being lowered in damage if health across the board comes down, too, so that people in general are killable in a reasonable amount of time without being victim to cheese attacks.

Kiet

Prep is only really balanced at ~5k+ hp, anyway, I'd say. If it were up to me, with current numbers, everyone would have 5-6k hp and no more or less.

Atalkez

Anedhel said:

If you don't get why extending prep times for any limb damage class bar those with fixed limb damages as well as trying to balance defences that were put in when people's health was way lower than it is now makes fighting less enjoyable than it ought to be is a drag, then I guess I can't really explain it.

ETA: I'd be fine with prep abilities being lowered in damage if health across the board comes down, too, so that people in general are killable in a reasonable amount of time without being victim to cheese attacks.

Realistically the difference between 5000 health and 8000 health is 2-4 hits, depending on class. Unfortunately, Con spec itself isn't really the culprit behind this. You get more overall increase from bracelets and con arties than you will from just con spec alone.

I think the high end (dragon levels) unartied health value is only going to be around 6000 health, at Con spec. That's not really a significant difference in prep time from 4000 health.

Anedhel

Given the prevalence of artefacts, the problem is high base constitution. People'll always buy arties to boost their stats/health, which is fine- a lower base means even very high investments still aren't a big pain to fight against. Lowering prep damages to prevent people from dying to basic attacks while making people's health not crazy enough that damage-based combos/non-instakill finishers are viable'd be a good balance, I feel. But it won't happen, so that's okay. I just really hate the idea of adding even more constitution to what is already a really high health pool, in general, in Achaea (obvious exceptions for magi/serpent/etc. notwithstanding).

Basileios

Anedhel.  If the suggestion Atalkez put in before comes to fruition, it'll just give people who put, essentially, all of their stats fro 12,12,12,12 into con, will result in 15 con.  They'll be absolutely average, or below as such.  It just makes certain races (See: Satyr) more viable because Satyrs, as they stand, kind of get a really low con for no other reason than "Uh... they.. have a weak.. liver..?" or something along those lines.  It's a tad silly to say that everyone will immediately put every stat point they can manage into CON.  People will want to raise their stats back to what they were before, etc.  

Drot

Basileios said:

Anedhel.  If the suggestion Atalkez put in before comes to fruition, it'll just give people who put, essentially, all of their stats fro 12,12,12,12 into con, will result in 15 con.  They'll be absolutely average, or below as such.  It just makes certain races (See: Satyr) more viable because Satyrs, as they stand, kind of get a really low con for no other reason than "Uh... they.. have a weak.. liver..?" or something along those lines.  It's a tad silly to say that everyone will immediately put every stat point they can manage into CON.  People will want to raise their stats back to what they were before, etc.  

Agreed. There will still be those who are completely fine with 12 con, and instead want their fifteen strength or intelligence. I don't think Anedhel was trying to say that everyone would pick con, his main gripe is that limb-prep classes already take a great deal of time to prep because limbs break based on maximum health of a target for some reason. Thus, CON gives you more health, better sips, AND makes limb prep classes take longer to do anything to you. That's the main problem he is having.

Sylvaria

just make it so no race loses con for specialising. It's stupid that the only stat all classes want can be hindered for a few races. make it so for the current con-losing classes the specialisation just swaps to int/str/dex, and make it a little more homogenised (that sucks, but honestly no race should lose con while some don't).

while we are at it can Dex specs for 15 not lose con as well? Far out!

Edit: just realised all races los con for dex spec, and it seems satyrs are the only con losers? ugh, ok, how about you get to select a strength and weakness, and that affects RP? So you specialise as a brute, you get max strength (15) with 13 con, but 11 dex and 10 int, and then your description becomes She is a tiger-like rajamala with a low-brow. I dunno 

Drot

Sylvaria said:

She is a tiger-like rajamala with a low-brow.

Hahahaha I love it.

Anedhel

I'm absolutely fine with classes being punished in one or more stats when they choose a high-impact stat package. I kind of wish more classes had to min-max like that, tbh.

Atalkez

Anedhel said:

I'm absolutely fine with classes being punished in one or more stats when they choose a high-impact stat package. I kind of wish more classes had to min-max like that, tbh.

Min-maxxing is fine.

Min-maxxing around races that hinder your RP, for no discernible reason, is the issue here though.

Deladan

Atalkez said:

Anedhel said:

I'm absolutely fine with classes being punished in one or more stats when they choose a high-impact stat package. I kind of wish more classes had to min-max like that, tbh.

Min-maxxing is fine.

Min-maxxing around races that hinder your RP, for no discernible reason, is the issue here though.

I had to spend so many credits for artefacts. Dex boots for Serpent and a belt upgrade because of the horrible con and the mediocre dex, when I could have easily went Rajamalan, and that would have left me with only needing to upgrade my gauntlets for Runewarden to bring it back up to the level of strength I'm used to. 

Aepas

I like a certain distinction in the Races. I like thinking that I'm stronger than everyone else because I am a xoran. Granted, this also makes me rather slow and I have no problem RP-ing that out and enjoying classes just as well because of it.

I think between the Traits and Race specializations you should be able to get a pretty flexible amount of stat points. Galant plus a point should be earning you 14/13 or 14/13 in respect to CON/STR

The problem I see with Satyr is that their strong point is in strength, but their con is naturally low. Makes for a bit of a conundrum in choosing it as a physical class.

I guess it depends how you look at it. When I think of Satyrs I think of the counterpart to Nymphs. They're still squishy and small and tricksy, they're just male. They're small and play pan flutes and have creepy fuzzy lower halfs. but a lot of people see them as more hunky man meat type people that deserve a bit more Con. But I think that really, they're the small lithe things that dance around with flutes.

#XoranMasterRace

Shirszae

@Aepas Have you seen the official art for Satyrs? They are not small at all :proud: 

Aepas

Shirszae said:

@Aepas Have you seen the official art for Satyrs? They are not small at all :proud: 

yeah, and the official art for a Xoran has a freaking beak. Sorry but those pictures don't count.

Drot

Aepas said:

 They're small and play pan flutes and have creepy fuzzy lower halfs.
#SatyrMasterRace

Drot

I just think that every race should be a good option for at least some classes. As is if you want any physical class which would benefit from strength, satyr is your worst option. Dwarf, Troll, or Xoran would simply be better. Hell, even Human would be better than Satyr for having relevant racials

Cooper

Satyr is a good option for some classes. Human is not better for anyone who wants to spec strength. Neither would Dwarf. The endurance regen + max str is going to be the best bashing race/combo for any class that uses endurance and doesn't indefinitely regen it.

Drot

Cooper said:

Satyr is a good option for some classes. Human is not better for anyone who wants to spec strength. Neither would Dwarf. The endurance regen + max str is going to be the best bashing race/combo for any class that uses endurance and doesn't indefinitely regen it.

You are saying that that one strength is better than 2 con and a slew of resistances? Unless you have arties to boost stats I doubt that is ever going to be better. The endurance regen is negligible from my experience, and unless you are a blademaster you can hunt for days without needing anything extra.

Ainly

Drot said:

I just think that every race should be a good option for at least some classes. As is if you want any physical class which would benefit from strength, satyr is your worst option. Dwarf, Troll, or Xoran would simply be better. Hell, even Human would be better than Satyr for having relevant racials

Actually.  I would Satyr monk over Troll because higher int. The endurance regen is also not negligible at all, it's actually really good.  I've been just about every race and almost every class.  Satyr isn't bad. You're not account for intelligence.  A satyr infernal will do more damage than a troll infernal, because of death aura.  A satyr monk will do more damage than a troll monk with crush and choke, and will have more mana to transmute. I'm on the opposite side of the fence though.  I wish races were like they used to be where they were completely different and you had to be one or two races to be the best at your class.

Cooper

Drot said:

Cooper said:

Satyr is a good option for some classes. Human is not better for anyone who wants to spec strength. Neither would Dwarf. The endurance regen + max str is going to be the best bashing race/combo for any class that uses endurance and doesn't indefinitely regen it.

You are saying that that one strength is better than 2 con and a slew of resistances? Unless you have arties to boost stats I doubt that is ever going to be better. The endurance regen is negligible from my experience, and unless you are a blademaster you can hunt for days without needing anything extra.

Well, your experience with endurance regen is wrong.

1 strength is better than 2 con when you are focusing on damage.

You also lose a point of dex, which isn't as important but can make a difference in some instances.