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Classlead Dec 2015

DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
Was about to send in one about hypnosis failure rate being too high...

Report #14
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Submitted by: Anonymous      Status      : Submitted
Skill       : Hypnosis       Ability     : Hypnotise
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Problem:
Hypnosis' passive failure rate - compounded by Vigilance - is unnecessary. It allows classes that 
have a prep - whether limb, doll/puppet, humours (classes already at advantage, see: slow prep) - to 
have multiple chances at free shots before the Serpent can begin to fight, and forces the Serpent to 
loop shield, etc. Considering the windup, a chance of failure is not necessary.
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Solution #1:
Reduce Hypnosis' ability to fail to 0% at Trans. Repurpose Vigilance.
Solution #2:
Reduce Hypnosis' chance to fail to 0% at Trans. Create an artefact (200-300cr) that negates the 
effects of Vigilance.
Solution #3:
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Report #21
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Submitted by: Anonymous      Status      : Unsubmitted
Skill       : Hypnosis       Ability     : Hypnotise
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Problem:
After doing a test of 500 hypnosis attempts on a target without Vigilance, the approximate rate of 
failure (between hidden/noticed failure) was 15%. Having such a low rate means it falls into where 
it should never be expected, and it only exists as a chance to unnecessarily delay your offence 
longer.
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Solution #1:
Remove the chance for hypnosis to fail entirely on a target without the Vigilance defence. Keep 
Vigilance rates the same and require it as an anti-hypnosis, instead of purely RNG anti-hypnosis 
attempts.
Solution #2:
Change it so that any failure on hypnosis means the next attempt has 100% success rate to minimize 
effects low-odd events have on combat
Solution #3:
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GordonAntidas
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Comments

  • AchimrstAchimrst NaturePosts: 3,608Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Deadening? I thought that was the whole point of this affliction. I'm not a serpent and never really have been, yet if serpents are unable to use this affliction maybe they need it. Of course I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for them to add something similar to say...stupidity affliction where it lowers the chance. Yet having a 100% success rate, to me, seems like it would just make serpents griefy since hypnosis is basically a blight with no message at all giving you an affliction.
  • SobriquetSobriquet Posts: 1,977Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Afflictions via hypnosis give a message when they fire.
    image
  • KietKiet Posts: 2,830Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That is... not how hypnosis works.
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,921Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Also, deadening makes mind locks easier, not hypnosis. It adds (or was intended to, I've never actually seen it used) some synergy with monks, who similarly have daze to make hypnosis easier.
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,499Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Serpent doesn't need hypnosis if they've got a friendly monk fighting on their side, so not really surprising you've never seen it used.
  • AchimrstAchimrst NaturePosts: 3,608Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Daze, Deadening, I'm extremely sorry I got the name wrong *sarcasm* As I said before, I have never actually played a serpent but I do know there is an affliction that is specific to hypnosis no matter what the name is. 

    I also apparently must apologize for not being so specific it was mind numbing as to how hypnosis works. MY BAD!
    Yet you are still not given an affliction message until it fires and is too late.

    Kafziel said:
    Achimrst said:
    Deadening? I thought that was the whole point of this affliction. I'm not a serpent and never really have been, yet if serpents are unable to use this affliction maybe they need it. Of course I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for them to add something similar to say...stupidity affliction where it lowers the chance. Yet having a 100% success rate, to me, seems like it would just make serpents griefy since hypnosis is basically a blight with no message at all giving you an affliction.
    ...wat?
    Yes @Kafziel remind me of the giant elitist assholes who play this game. 


  • KietKiet Posts: 2,830Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You aren't given an affliction message until it fires, but that's how every affliction works.
    SobriquetAerekAntidas
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,921Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2015
    Achimrst said:
    Daze, Deadening, I'm extremely sorry I got the name wrong *sarcasm* As I said before, I have never actually played a serpent but I do know there is an affliction that is specific to hypnosis no matter what the name is.
    You got the name right (deadening is the ability/affliction in hypnosis), it's the effect you had wrong. The point is that serpents can't give the affliction that helps with hypnosis, only monks can. I misread your post, you said that serpents should get the ability if they don't have it, so this part is irrelevant. Having to stick an affliction before attempting hypnosis doesn't really help though.
    Achimrst said:
    I also apparently must apologize for not being so specific it was mind numbing as to how hypnosis works. MY BAD!
    Yet you are still not given an affliction message until it fires and is too late.
    It still in no way resembles blight, and not getting an affliction message until you actually have the affliction isn't in any way "too late" for anything (since that's how almost every affliction in the game works). There would be nothing griefy about hypnosis having a 100% success rate.
  • XinnaXinna Posts: 691Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    It's pretty relevant whether the affliction that helps hypnosis is deadening, the affliction serpents can actually give, or daze, an affliction serpents cannot give.

    Lose the sarcasm in that last statement, I think!
  • KafzielKafziel Posts: 658Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @Achimrst, I am genuinely not sure whether you're saying that giving deadening/daze without an affliction message is OP (I have never in my life used either affliction so I have no idea if it does or doesn't have an affliction line) or whether you're operating under the assumption that all hypnosis affs give no message to the target and their balancing factor is the failure chance on hypnotise.

    Either way, neither of those are really relevant to the state of serpent combat today (the first because almost nobody uses them, the second because it's not true), and thus not relevant to the classleads posted.
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoPosts: 1,906Member @ - Epic Achaean
    I think everyone needs to retract the claws... Meeeeeeow



  • AntidasAntidas Posts: 1,460Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    +1 to hypnosis ideas. Its been on my list of things to classlead for a while, except then I stopped playing...

    Siduri
  • KasyaKasya TennesseePosts: 657Member @ - Epic Achaean
    edited December 2015
    I read a priest classlead that I think suggested smite should be eq rather than balance. I'm assuming that person doesn't play a priest?
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,499Member @@ - Legendary Achaean

    @Kasya Not exactly. Here's the actual solution:

    Add new abilities for these classes that use the same stat but use equilibrium instead. If they're longer/shorter eq the damage should be scaled appropriately.

    Essentially they're suggesting that Priest get a new bashing attack which scales on strength and mace damage, but uses equilibrium rather than balance, so that speccing quick-witted for PvP doesn't mean you have to suffer (slightly) worse bashing. That doesn't seem too unreasonable, but I'm not sure if the admin would go for it. Of course, that classlead hasn't even been submitted yet, and may not be.

  • MorthifMorthif Posts: 1,533Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I mean I get it but it's still silly. I'm already godly at bashing in priest and I'm QW and Str spec 
    Kasya
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,130Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kasya said:
    I read a priest classlead that I think suggested smite should be eq rather than balance. I'm assuming that person doesn't play a priest?
    What's bad about it, out of curiosity?
  • KasyaKasya TennesseePosts: 657Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Ahh. Yeah... um. Priest bashing is way OP as is. Between hands, revit, empathy... But that does make slightly more sense, I guess.
  • TeshaTesha Posts: 2,862Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You rich people and your arties! It's more aimed at unartied priests than those of us decked out with level 3 mace, gauntlets, crit pendants, and the defensive arties required to go strength spec, lol. I know artied priests can bash relatively well compared to other classes even with QW, but unartied priests suffer from having to choose quickwitted for PVP. I definitely don't want smite changed to EQ, I'll have to clarify that. New abilities all the way.


     i'm a rebel

    JeslynShirszae
  • KasyaKasya TennesseePosts: 657Member @ - Epic Achaean
    I guess... unartied priest bashing is still ridiculously easy, smite is just a bit slow.
  • JeslynJeslyn United StatesPosts: 482Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Kasya said:
    I guess... unartied priest bashing is still ridiculously easy, smite is just a bit slow.
    You're right, it is pretty easy as unartied. A lot faster and tankier than Druid which I'm playing now. Even better if you have a bloodsworn too. I miss my priest. :(
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,921Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2015
    Smite isn't great without an artefact mace*. Unartied priest bashing is still pretty good because of their strong defences/healing, but their offence is only a little above the standard even with nimble. Edit: I guess it also has the advantage of working well with low strength. The "only a little above the standard" was referring to full str spec; when comparing at 12 strength/int (14 with inspiration) it's a lot better than most classes.

    *With an artefact mace, it's very overpowered, likely still the highest DPS in the game by a significant margin, enough that it's still the best without nimble unless you count serpent with non-standard dex bonuses (SoW elixirs, rare minerals, truefavours, etc.).
  • TeshaTesha Posts: 2,862Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Haha, I wasn't saying priest bashing was terrible or anything, it just kinda sucks having to choose between optimizing for PVP and PVE. I only mentioned priest first because it's what I'm most familiar with. It's probably even worse for alchemists and apostates.

     i'm a rebel

    Jeslyn
  • KietKiet Posts: 2,830Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    A lot of classes have a weird indecision for whether they're balance or eq-based. You could say it adds complexity, but mostly I feel like it's just meh and could be streamlined.
    MelodieSenaSylvaria
  • AustereAustere TennesseePosts: 2,185Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Unartied magi is in the same boat with staffcast vs staffstrike. I find magi viable with qw for combat, but I wouldn't consider it without a diadem
  • KietKiet Posts: 2,830Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Is staffstrike balance or what?
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,130Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Staffstrike is balance yeah
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,691Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Report #100
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    Submitted by: You            Status      : Submitted
    Skill       : TwoArts        Ability     : Impaleslash
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    Problem:
    Impaleslash as it sits is a timed ability that forces the defender to flee with little other 
    recourse, if they have legs prepped. Outside of high-mana, artied thresholds, a "pre-impaleslash" 
    setup is normally going to result in an extremely high likelihood of the defender dying. Timed 
    abilities, that have no real "work around", don't seem to be overly interesting nor helpful to 
    combat as a whole. This classlead aims to change that, while making Blademaster a bit more 
    interesting to fight both as and against.
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    Solution #1:
    My suggestion is a change to the handling of impaleslash, in that instead of it being a time-only 
    ability it can be cured by apply restoration to torso. To "stick" it, would require a torso break. A 
    similar handling to Heartseed. This change is good for a few different reasons: 1) It elongates the 
    Blademaster prep time, in that it eliminates the "pre-impaleslash" prep path and forces the BM to 
    prep torso if they plan on sticking the impaleslash to begin with. 2) It allows the defender to 
    actually choose curing priorities instead of "run for 30 seconds". This would make fighting a 
    Blademaster more interesting. 3) It also gives the Blademaster the ability to punish curing 
    priorities, which opens up more avenues (Classlead 101). If this change was approved, I do believe 
    that there would also need to be either a increase in the ammount of clotting that it reduces, or a 
    reduction in its' balance time. I would suggest the latter. Bringing it down to the 1 second timing 
    of bladetwist would be a suggestion.
    Solution #2:
    That's really all I got
    Solution #3:
    in Makarios we trust
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    Report #101
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    Submitted by: You            Status      : Submitted
    Skill       : TwoArts        Ability     : Voidfist
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    Problem:
    Voidfist has long been an ability that has been hard to balance. It started out as a too-long on 
    its' RNG, and now has been reduced to basically nothing. At nearly no point in any fight is Voidfist 
    realistically a viable option for anything more than a quick paralysis hinder. With the requirement 
    to pommelstrike to increase its' duration, this means the Blademaster can't utilize it for any real 
    prep purposes because it simply doesn't last long enough. Locking as a Blademaster is an extremely 
    easy-to-counter affair, and only the recent changes to hypochondria allows Blademaster to do so. 
    Again, due to the paltry length of voidfist, and the clunky increase-per-pommel setup, coupled with 
    how easily countered any BM affliction potential is - it doesn't really help for locking either! 
    This change aims to work in conjunction with the Impaleslash change, and hopefully give BM a bit 
    more interesting kill sequences
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    Solution #1:
    My suggestion is making Voidfist a guaranteed Addiction affliction, on say a 8 or 10 second timer. 
    The idea behind this change is to be able to work in conjunction with curing priorities as mentioned 
    in classlead 100. What this allows, is a Blademaster to possibly achieve a riftlock based on salve 
    application handling, and limb breaks. Currently, a riftlock is easily beatable by a large pre-cache,
     and Blademaster is unable to give Addiction without Hypochondria. The speed of prep slashes is not 
    fast enough to allow sticking of afflictions, and pommelstrikeing into stacks is easily beatable by 
    any smart hypochondria handling. Blademaster has the ability to lock in theory, that doesn't 
    translate well in practice overall. This would allow a riftlock to be viable with arm breaks, 
    eliminating the ability to be defeated by a large precache. It would instead require intelligent 
    handling of curing procedures while off salve balances
    Solution #2:
    Change voidfist to be a salve balance extender, ala a timeflux. I'm not really a fan of this 
    suggestion, though it could be interesting. I'm unsure how realitic it could be to increase 
    restoration balance by 25% or something along those lines, while keeping BM survivable. I much 
    prefer solution 1!
    Solution #3:
    May the force be with you
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    Report #102
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    Submitted by: You            Status      : Submitted
    Skill       : Vodun          Ability     : Tarnel snare
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    Problem:
    Current a Shaman has two ways of binding you. Neither of which are blocked with buckawns. They have 
    Tarnel snare, and the Vodun bind ability. Vodun bind at least requires a doll, and the fashion 
    threshold to use it. However, Tarnel snare is not that way. I'm not entirely sure on the limitation, 
    though from what I've seen there seems to be none or very small ones. This leads to the shaman 
    effectively stopping all momentum against them pretty easily, while also not even needing to use the 
    fashions they've built on their doll to do so. With Shaman being such a strong prep class at higher 
    doll fashion levels, being able to neutralize any momentum trivially without any setback seems to be 
    an issue.
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    Solution #1:
    My suggestion is adding a hard cooldown of both Tarnel snare and Vodun bind. This would still allow 
    the Shaman the ability to bind their opponent twice in the timeframe to hinder momentum and make it 
    hard on their opponent, while reducing the ability to just spam them repeatedly until cured down or 
    cured certain afflictions based on classes. A 30 second to one minute cooldown per use, or even the 
    same cooldown that Relapse currently uses, would be in line I believe.
    Solution #2:
    Delete Tarnel snare and require the Shaman to rely strictly on Vodun bind. Leave Vodun Bind the way 
    it is now.
    Solution #3:
    Delete buckawns, and web tattoos so that everyone has to deal with entanglement from bombs/abilities 
    equally. Merry Christmas
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    Report #103
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    Submitted by: You            Status      : Submitted
    Skill       : Elementalism   Ability     : Reflection
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    Problem:
    Reflection is able to be spammed by both Magi and Sylvan, to great effect versus any sort of 
    momentum classes. The Wand of Reflections doesn't work this way for much the same reason, as 
    perpetual impunity from most classes is not good for combat in general
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Solution #1:
    Put a cooldown on reflection, something like 10 seconds. This allows the Magi or Sylvan to still use 
    it sort of as an "active" defense, while not allowing them to remain immune to the attacks of most 
    classes. At QW/Diadem levels, the balance of reflect can outpace even a mildly artied serpent 
    affliction speed. This seems counter intuitive to the balance of any momentum classes versus 
    reflection
    Solution #2:
    Increase the balance of reflection, making it not so easily spammable and not quite as effective as 
    it currently is.
    Solution #3:
    Cam Newton is a beast, so is Reflection. Nerf pls
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    Done for the moment, might think of something else soon.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • AlaskarAlaskar Posts: 393Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Spamming reflection completely stalls magi offense too. Reflection already nerfed enough. Also, I've spammed reflection against serpents and it made little difference.

    Saeva
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,691Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Magi is a prep class. Shutting down a momentum class does not shut down Magi offense in the slightest.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    DochithaMizikDaeir
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