Mentoring and Positive Interactions

Vayne

Should get all your newbs and leave them on some isle for a year and see what happens, Lord of the Flies style.

Idelisa

@Anatral you forgot the suggestion to not fall in love with and marry your protege. 

Anatral

@Idelisa oh, didn't I mention? I do that with all my novices. Your time is nearly up :P

Anatral

Vayne said:

Should get all your newbs and leave them on some isle for a year and see what happens, Lord of the Flies style.

Yeah, that's essentially what I'm trying to get at.

Arilles

Cinya said:

In the interest of not repeating things from this already-long topic, I'll add just one item. It's stupid, but people forget: ask about them. People LOVE talking about themselves. 

I'll ask my novices where they grew up, what brought them to where they are, their opinion on other worldviews like Good/Evil/Darkness/Chaos. In addition to feeling cared about, it also allows them to develop their character a little bit, and encourages putting effort into RP. You can always fall back on "oh, did you lose those memories in the Flame?" if they balk, which adds a little Sapience-specific flavor as well. 

The only problem I see here, is that most newbies will have no idea what to say. It depends on how long they've been around, where they've been, and how much they know about things (TONS of things could be used). Like in Cyrene, if you're s Shaman you have to explain how you deal with the "Darker Side of Mysticism". Wth is that supposed to mean, and how is a newbie supposed to know about it?

Cinya

Nah, just littler things, things they would know straight out of the tutorial. Family life, what generally drew them to Good/Evil/whatever they follow.  You always have the whole "oh, did you forget that in the Flame?" excuse if they balk, really, but it shows that you care, and opens up opportunities for them to talk to you again later. 

Vayne

Often I meet novices who express sentiments to me like, "I can't wait until I'm stronger so I can really help the house." WRONG, you need to get them involved immediately and give them a sense of purpose and belonging in the house. You need to immerse them quickly or there is a good chance you'll lose them. Props to @Aitox for doing this so well the other day and incorporating the current events into it.

Idelisa

Props to @Vayne for getting me all excited then leaving me hanging.  Maybe @Aitox will come in and actually tell us what she did. :P

Vayne

@Idelisa Aitox is a dude.

Idelisa

Well, then.  I suppose it would be difficult for Aitox to tell me what she did, since I'd doubt he knows.

Vasool

Vayne said:

@Idelisa Aitox is a dude.

Only on that particular character...

Aitox

@Idelisa, why the hell did you think Aitox is a female name? And no, I cannot tell you what I did because it involves tantalizing secrets.

Idelisa

Gah!  The pressure!

[Deleted User]

Vayne said:

Often I meet novices who express sentiments to me like, "I can't wait until I'm stronger so I can really help the house." WRONG, you need to get them involved immediately and give them a sense of purpose and belonging in the house. You need to immerse them quickly or there is a good chance you'll lose them. Props to @Aitox for doing this so well the other day and incorporating the current events into it.

No one does this, though. Novices are usually left to grind themselves to boredom without purpose.

Why should novices complete requirements? What's so great about being a full member of the house?

Wynedere

Exactly. Most of what new house members are told is to read and bash. They want to help with raid defense, and are barred from it. If they're willing to try, why coddle them like that? Give them a sense of what Achaea is really about. Conflict is huge, and most novices want to be involved. Treating them like kids who are too fragile to contribute is a horrid way to go about novice retention. Sadly, most houses are guilty of this. Novices are basically written off as inferior.

Xith

If they can prove they're able to cure and promise to account for themselves (not ask for field rezzes), I can see them being allowed to help.
The real reason for novices being barred from helping is that they could easily be spy-alts or something.

Jhaeli

Wynedere said:

Exactly. Most of what new house members are told is to read and bash. They want to help with raid defense, and are barred from it. If they're willing to try, why coddle them like that? Give them a sense of what Achaea is really about. Conflict is huge, and most novices want to be involved. Treating them like kids who are too fragile to contribute is a horrid way to go about novice retention. Sadly, most houses are guilty of this. Novices are basically written off as inferior.

Keep in mind that this policy has been around for a long, long time. A lot of changes have occurred over the last few years that make the idea of novices helping during raid defense a bit more feasible, but many places have yet to re-evaluate their policy over it or have and decided that it still wasn't worth the hassle.

Mostly, this (along with the no PVP outside of the Arena rule) was designed to curb frustration on the part of the newbie who has never experienced any form of combat and for whom raid defense can be overwhelming as well as curb frustration on the part of the "older" characters who, instead of properly focusing on the defense itself, are often left to babysit and answer questions. Just because YOU may not find the idea of being thrust into a blurry wall of text racing by overwhelming doesn't mean that a lot of real newbies don't. (In fact, I might argue that that would be more detrimental to new players than being left out for a little bit.) Giving the newbie specific tasks that eventually build into complicated issues like combat has generally been found to be the better way to go in most cases and I've found several newbies who enjoy the idea of earning greater responsibility by progressing through novicehood.

I'm not saying that there can't be exceptions to the rule, but I've found that raid defense is a poor way to introduce combat to someone who has never experienced combat before. Better to take them to the Arena and start their combat training that way.

ETA: And I would argue that I don't think Novices are necessarily treated as inferior in an OOC sense, but some Houses may, yes, treat them like, you know, a novice. Meaning that they are given less responsibilities and are expected to earn their place through dedicated training. I don't forsee that (nor would I want it to) change anytime soon.

Idelisa

@Jhaeli Though it would be interesting to see if people could put their heads together to come up with ways to foster that sense of purpose and involvement that does make so many of us keep coming back.

Personally, I have my protege's help the rank below them whenever possible, basically helping them with things they literally just went through, to help give them a sense of pride while reinforcing the knowledge they'd just learned.  Of course that's just on an individual level though, I'm sure that there are some great organizations around here that have found ways to give purpose to their novices.

Prythe

Idelisa said:

The idea that I had is based on the idea of group mentoring. Or teams, if you will. I try to make sure my protégés work together, help each other and develop relationships with each other so that if I am not around they feel like they have someone they feel comfortable going to. Granted most just message me still and I am a -very- new mentor so I may be completely naive about my thoughts on this, but why not have a group of mentors that work together that keep an eye on each others protégés. Is this not realistic? Clearly this assumes that there are enough mentors but it may reduce individual "burden" in the case of someone that is particularly difficult or even particularly enthusiastic?

My proteges all know that they are responsible, along with me, for my next generation. I also consider any of their proteges to be "mine" as well.

Tvistor

Daslin said:

Exactly what he said. Also, lead your protege on a raid five minutes after the Trial. It'll get them accustomed to your style... Oh wait, you said forestal.... Ignore that, it only works with Houses/Cities that actually do damage. :P. Also, just bring them out into the world, expose them, have them learn the world.

I am so hip and cool.