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Comments
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Every other class has either ranged abilities, significant room defs, and/or some other significant, complex source of raid utility (like dolls/puppets). Every other class has something to contribute. They're not just stuck there twiddling their thumbs.
Blademaster is completely unique in having absolutely nothing to do outside of melee.
Which is why, responding to @Atalkez, I think it's not actually very reasonable for them to be just like every other class in terms of their ability to move around inside totemed areas. They ought to either have an easier time moving around inside totems or they ought to get some range or utility. And given that SHIN MEDITATE specifically allows them to move around in totems while ranged attack classleads have been consistently denied, it seems like the direction that admin want to go is allowing them to move around inside totemed areas.
That's pretty clearly the intention of SHIN MEDITATE - if it weren't, it would only give you evade, not totem immunity. Given that it does give totem immunity, I think it's safe to say that it's intended to be the thing that lets you get around inside totems in raids, so you aren't just stuck sitting there waiting for melee to happen. Except the way it's set up doesn't actually allow you to roam due to the duration and cooldown.
12 seconds is plenty of time to get from point A to point B, while I do agree that getting back presents a problem.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Blademaster could use Evade as means to stay out of harms way -while- simultaneously building towards their kill method.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Blademasters on the other hand can stand in the room and phoniex then evade then build up enough shin to phoniex again and never have to worry about dying to the serpent. at least from my experience.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Evade = totem immunity. That's all the AB means, I'm pretty sure. It is poorly worded, though.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
The pointed out the totem immunity and hinder bypass, to show that's it's the same effect but just 'different'.
Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."
No class should have nothing to do during the substantial parts of many raids where there isn't a melee. BM is the only class with that problem.
You should not have to buy an artefact to have access to literally any gameplay at all during substantial parts of many raids. Again, no other class has to do that.
It's absolutely fine if BM stays melee only. It doesn't need utility or range. But if you're going to do that, give them a way to get into melee during a raid (and get back out). That's the point. Give them something, anything, to do. If you want to keep them melee, give them a way to go melee. Hell, give them some almost completely inconsequential utility or a 10 damage ranged attack. Just anything at all to do other than sitting there waiting to be able to do anything.
It's not even slightly like complaining that jester doesn't have vibes. Jesters still have things to do during raids, with puppets and tarot being a massive source of utility and with bombs and even with suicidemice come to it. Only one class has vibes. Only a few have things like vibes. But, every class except blademaster has things to do outside of a group melee during raids.
The problem isn't that BM lacks range or that it lacks utility. It's that in a huge part of most raids, you have literally nothing to do. Their gameplay is not weaker, it's just nonexistent. That shouldn't be okay. No other class has that problem. With normal access to evade, BM didn't have that problem to nearly the same degree because you could use evade to roam and pick small melee fights, scout, draw the attention of the enemy hoping to split them up, evade in to use annihilate, etc. You were still melee-only, but you weren't left with nothing to do but play solitaire while you hope that an actual melee breaks out.
Regular evade was a terrible idea for BM's 1v1.
What is needed is access to evade that doesn't work in 1v1.
And one easy way to do that would be to make SHIN MEDITATE work like phase. Give it a windup so it can be easily stopped during combat and can't be used to slow-prep, but don't give it a duration or a cooldown. Let the user "break" it just like phase - you can attack out of it and it turns it off (and, just like phase, no cooldown on reactivating it - just another windup). And revert it to normal old evade without the enter/exit message since people won't be using it 1v1 anyway and the whole point is to sneak around so you can do melee things during raids.
If needed, allow EVADE to be used outside of SHIN MEDITATE on a long cooldown, but several good BMs have maintained for a long time that BM doesn't really need evade 1v1, so it seems reasonable to just reserve its use for outside of 1v1.
I guess I'll just submit something in the next round of classleads. It's just a shame that it's going to take that long for BM to be given any way to participate at all in raids outside of big melees.
Evade was like the only thing that made being a blademaster in a raid bearable though.
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Still I feel like Blademaster should have gotten a new type of ability with the loss of evade. With no Evade no stealth element takes alot of the fun out of the class in it's self imo.
Also Aerek those are the three Affliction classes that give Blademasters the most problems.
Alchemist is a pain in the ass to deal with anyways but your pretty much stuck in the room with them with out Evade.
Occultist the good ones all have the script that squints in every direction and follows when you evade and your still stuck in tentacles.
Apostates eh meh Hard to kill them hard for them to kill you Phoniex stops there momentum but not as bad as serpent.
Also Didn't 1v1 die in achaea in like 2004?
Voidfist is pretty nerfed unless it's gotten buffed since i've been dormant it lasts about a second longer than you get balance for it and increases in duration the more you pommel. which is great unless your hindered or need to leave or the big one someone impales the person making your voidfist fall off instantly.
It still has some potential with good coordination but you don't often find that good of coordination in groups.
Old evade had the problem of counterplay in duels; it was so strong because it could be spammed at will with no warning or even a message that it happened, leading into problems of reaction. Sure players could get around and adjust to it, but it was still very strong. But with raids, it was almost a necessity because, as stated before, bm's have no interactions outside of melee combat. Without any form of assistance due to their abilities all being offensive or self-defensive in nature, the only thing they had going for them was scouting around using evade and when groups were being rushed.
New evade (meditate) cleaned up the problem of duels, at the cost of raids. With meditate, it limits when a bm can evade by imposing a cool-down after a limited time, as well as gives a message when they do so. Bm's can still avoid kill setups by a timely evade, but they can't do so constantly. Additionally, with the usaged telegraphed, people fighting the bm can react faster and possibly chase to get the kill anyway. The big downside was the cool-down: with only a limited time to evade and two minutes of not being able to move around, scouting around in raids is highly impractical if not impossible.
So far, nothing new. Most people know this already. So why did I state this? Because the strength each type brought to the table made combat in one setting strong while weakening the other. It's hard having one ability balanced between both situations. So why have only the one ability?
I propose splitting it into two seperate abilities: Step and Flow
Step would work like meditate currently: allow escaping, but only for a limited time. It would have the 3rd person message, and would hit totems (totems )
There are several options possible for Step.
Flow would have no time limit, but only be interrupted by attacks. After being interrupted, there is a 10 second cooldown (adjustable as needed), and could not work after Step has been used recently and vise versa.(So you can't use Step to avoid dying in a melee rush and then immediately use Flow to GTFO of the enemy city, or use Flow to engage an enemy and then use Step as an escape right afterwards). I'm not sure how it would interact with stuff like harms, vibes, etc, but that could be worked out. It would be perfect for raids: it has a small windup (like 4 seconds; this makes unusable in 1v1 as it can be easily stopped), it allows the bm to move around a totemed area, and can't be used to hit and run.
Maybe my ideas has no merit or needs to be adjusted, but after I thought about it I had to make this post. Look at me, Senpai @Tecton & @Sarapis
Thanks to @Tael, @Atalkez, @Caladbolg and anyone else in this discussion that helped shaped these ideas as they stand
Yea, that one!
The best BMs have repeatedly stated, pretty much since complaints about evade started coming up, for years, that they didn't think evade was necessary for the class in 1v1. I think that's the right solution here. You already have leap, highleap, and bound to get away (in addition to regular old tumble). And in terms of raw survival, you have phoenix, vitiate, alleviate, augment, health and manatrans, not to mention toughness and weathering.
If you just put a windup on SHIN MEDITATE and let it grant access to evade, but have it be lost on being hit or taking offensive actions, that would completely solve the problem. And it should just be normal evade, not some special, worse blademastery version - blademaster needs the ability to move unhindered and stealthily in raids more than any other class if they're going to remain melee only with no outside-of-melee raid utility.
And if SHIN MEDITATE worked like phase, there would be no need for a 10 second cooldown - that's redundant with the windup, which already prevents you from using it in combat after someone hits you and breaks it.
With that said, I suggested the following to @Makarios earlier today.
<msg> Repurpose Shadow to work like the Shaman ability to tether/move a direction. It won't be as good as Evade because it will have a small 2-3s windup before you actually make the move <dir>, yet it still allows the Blademaster to move freely during raids without the instant escape of Evade (barring them not using Meditate yet) -- Shadow as it sits is pretty worthless in most situations unless you have an etheral shroud/Shadowcloak to follow people. Not really a skill that the BM kit can make use of, since we're not a hidey/eavesdrop class
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.