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Best Mark/Contract Class

DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
I kinda think Alchemist is a pretty good class for a Mark to hinder and kill quickly...

Dragon is definitely meh...

What's the general take? Jester any better?
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Comments

  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraPosts: 5,923Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Occultist.


    SeftinElowin
  • SarathaiSarathai Posts: 2,139Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Based on the number of deathsights I see with a victim on one end and Seragorn on the other, I'd guess Occultist is pretty strong.
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  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMPosts: 5,310Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    if you get jumped by an occie, definitely hard to react before you are dead.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMPosts: 5,310Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    A jester with good pranks can be pretty brutal also.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesPosts: 2,433Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Well the easiest way to be a good mark (in terms of completing contracts and not 1v1 prowess) is having a high kill to death ratio.  Serpents can pretty much take unlimited free shots at killing someone while hunting.  Oh backstab on denizen stack didnt get you, I'll just try again in a hour.  Busy fighting another group, I'll just snipe you hoping to get last hit or backstab you when your distracted.  They can also easily infiltrate a city so they can catch people afk a lot easier than other classes.

    Monks can also get radiance kills, big advantage since people spend the majority of their time in Achaea on guard stacks.  They also have some very strong melee skills that nets them a bunch of kills.  BBT and kai choke scale a ton.

    Alchemists can displace, a big plus.  They are mediocre in group melee though.

    Occultists can be nasty when they jump you, even more so indoors.  If they put tower and freeze ground in a few rooms before they engage, good luck going anywhere.



    image
    PraxidesDochithaShirszae
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,130Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Serpent and Occultist hands down
    PraxidesDochitha
  • XinnaXinna Posts: 691Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    I'd say Occultist first, easily.

    Serpent and alchemist are also good. Alchemist/monk can get the afk kills on people hiding on guards. Maybe Occultist too if warp still doesn't respect elevation.

    Alchemist/Occultist are good for jumping because mobile room hinder and fast kills, and serpent has backstab and snipe.

    Sylvan/druid might be pretty good too with just wildgrowth plus loldamage, but hard to say. Nobody really plays them.

  • AchimrstAchimrst NaturePosts: 3,608Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Wildgrowth is not that great, I had someone walk right through the room I was in with it up once. Has them enemied and everything, took forever to set up that gank :( 
    Atomus
  • ChiamChiam Posts: 143Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Jovolo said:
    Serpent and Occultist hands down
    exactly what I had in mind when I saw the thread title
  • MizikMizik Posts: 2,072Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Serpent
    Occultist 
    Blademaster if you don't need infiltration. Or for ass stomping anyone under 80.
    image
    Kasa
  • SeftinSeftin Posts: 923Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Occultist by far, ridiculous steam-roller effect with great hindrance and utility.
  • KasaKasa Posts: 110Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I think Sentinel honestly deserves an honorable mention, because of their super-fast affliction offense, comparable to Occultist, not to mention traps in every direction of various kinds.
    Novak
  • NovakNovak Posts: 52Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited July 2015
    Kasa said:
    I think Sentinel honestly deserves an honorable mention, because of their super-fast affliction offense, comparable to Occultist, not to mention traps in every direction of various kinds.
    ILY

    Edit: Honestly, Sentinels don't get enough credit. If used correctly, they're total beasts. Just like any class.
  • KasaKasa Posts: 110Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Novak said:
    Kasa said:
    I think Sentinel honestly deserves an honorable mention, because of their super-fast affliction offense, comparable to Occultist, not to mention traps in every direction of various kinds.
    ILY

    Edit: Honestly, Sentinels don't get enough credit. If used correctly, they're total beasts. Just like any class.
    Well, part of that stems from the fact that Sentinel has no way to keep their opponent in the room without hella preparation. Occultist just types
    tentacles
    enemy target
    enter room and do the dead-making.

    Sentinel has to set up traps around the target, enter room, do the dead making, and hope that their target doesn't react in time, or that their target doesn't catch them laying down the traps and just gets the hell outta there.
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Can Jester out of nowhere surprise and lock target?
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Posts: 3,107Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Dochitha with a smart use of the stun and blackout bombs? Probably!
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

    Dochitha
  • ExelethrilExelethril Posts: 3,255Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kasa said:
    I think Sentinel honestly deserves an honorable mention, because of their super-fast affliction offense, comparable to Occultist, not to mention traps in every direction of various kinds.
    Sentinel isn't super fast anymore though and requires more aff precision/has more variability than occie. If you can count from 1 to 5 on your fingers, you can probs play occie.

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  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,130Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Occie requires a lot more precision than counting to 5. You're basically forced to automate it due to its randomness and speed of afflictions if you're not going for cheese dustbomb strategies. If you don't automate it in their linear affs->Cadmus->Hecate then you have a freaky level of reaction time and a superhuman memory and mental math. It just gets a bad rep because that means people DO generally automate it but take a look at combat nowadays. Glass houses etc
    Dochitha
  • SobriquetSobriquet Posts: 1,977Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tharvis said:
    @Dochitha with a smart use of the stun and blackout bombs? Probably!
    Harder now we can't juggle bombs though.
    image
  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 725Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    That's what timers or suicide mice are for.
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNPosts: 1,126Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Depends on the class your fighting, But i'd rather serpent over the others evade and phase are awesome to keep you from dying while going after your contract. and alot of people will afk in area's you can snipe them down. plus you can always sneak in and put impatience/confusion/disrupt on them wait till they hit that last minion then backstab lock them before they even understand what's going on.


    Every other class is a pretty much if they don't want to fight you they don't have to type setup... You can hinder them for a bit but the chances of them escaping before you go to kill are pretttttttty high in a solo gank.

    Dochitha
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,276Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Occultist probably needs nerfs, honestly. Potentially way too lethal for the amount of mobility and hinder it has innately. Definitely absurdly good at getting alpha drops on people and killing them.

    Serpent's good, too, obviously. A Jester who knows his shit would be a fucking nightmare to try and escape from and could screw you over in so many ways.
  • CynlaelCynlael Posts: 3,257Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    ...? Occultist definitely does -not- need -more- nerfs, lol... The class is already ridiculously easy to not die against. Maybe if you're not expecting to be jumped, but that's really not a good situation to balance any class at all around.

    Josoul
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,276Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Do elaborate on this "ridiculously easy to not die against" thing?

    Cadmus skullfucks you with good rng, slime makes tree ineffective, balanceless shield raze, inroom tethered half-piety movement from tentacles.. About the only thing that does work against them is tumble, at which point you revel in your second's reprieve and then promptly get fucked some more when the Occultist just walks back into the room. Sure, if their RNG sucks you get a pretty okay run, but when it is anything close to on point, you get stacked wayyyy too quickly.

    Probably lots for me to still learn in that department, but they're far too strong on hinder for a class with that much mobility, imo. That and movement block effects that aren't hamstring-type are pretty stupid these days with how immediately lethal script-augmented combat has become.
  • CynlaelCynlael Posts: 3,257Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2015
    Slime extends tree balance (which is capped now, thanks to recent classleads) which makes the balance extension nowhere close to as noticeable as it used to be.

    Tentacles, I'll give you that. I don't agree that it's as good as piety/gravehands, though. Because those are good for escaping your opponent, as well as stopping them leaving. Projection also bypasses tentacles. (Hi Shaman)

    I sure would love to know where you got this 'balanceless shield raze' from, because last I checked, Gremlin consumes equilibrium (yes it's lowered depending on the amount of afflictions you have, but it's certainly never balanceless, and shielding will always help you because it's still preventing afflictions)

    Dunno what to tell you, mate. Occultist has been fucked harder than any class in the past few classlead rounds. Just because it -can- kill people, that doesn't mean the class is fine, and certainly doesn't mean it's OP. Play the class yourself, and you'll see the glaring flaws with it.

    Main point is the 'stack', -might- pile up quickly (if you don't use your cures correctly) but is also one of the fastest cured out of: run for 5s = you're clear and they have to start from scratch. Do the same vs alchie/2hander (if you can even get away from the fuckers in the first place) and you've cured tops 2-3 affs out of like 8 on you. Definitely a fair comparison, since all 3 are heavily momentum based.

  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,130Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2015
    Gremlin may give the illusion of balanceless raze because you can chain it with entity balance.

    I also feel like you're not giving enough credit to the difficulty of running away from Occultist, a class that naturally sticks Lethargy (one attempt to leave the room every ~two seconds) and has room hinder that follows them where they chase.

    Not sure Occultist desperately needs nerfs, but it's still very strong.
  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 725Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Tumble doesn't work against Occie. But yeah they're actually relatively easy to defend against with a few curing tweaks.
  • JosoulJosoul Posts: 131Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Jovolo said:
     class that naturally sticks Lethargy (one attempt to leave the room every ~two seconds) 
    We are not in 2010, lethargy is a +20-25% on balance time after the most recent nerf, down from +40%, it is not confusion at +100% eq. Not to mention occie cant give lethargy but only from instill once every 1.91s at best, only way to have it when trying to run is if RNG cured another ginseng aff. 

    Another problem is it lacks meaningful offensive hinder. Have access to lethargy and clumsiness only and can do these two on instill at 1.91s between each (bloodleech doesnt give these any more), so cant stack one under the other. Now if a target has lethargy when they use balance, they will be slowed down 0.3-0.5s, while a class with access to paralysis will average at a 0.7s hinder (which can be easily raised to 1-1.2s average if smart to account for timings). In other words, occies sit and take it all in the face more than virtually any other class. 

    It can still kill people, specially unskilled ones or those that dont know what the class actually can do, but they are not in need of a nerf, some reworks maybe to be able to do something against those that do know how to counter it.
    Jovolo
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,691Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Disagree with anyone that says Occie is "ridiculously easy" to not die to.

    I legslashed Seragorn twice in our last fight, tried to run and hit tentacles like 10 times then died. 

    The offense is extremely hard to hinder, even with paralysis whoring. If you're not good at optimizing the offense, yeah you can struggle, but if you are - the class is extremely deadly and extremely fast at being deadly.


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    DochithaElowin
  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 725Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Atalkez, use alleviate + shield + prone/impale on instill
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