Solid class/house for learning both basics and advanced game features

Dimita

Hi all! I understand that a question like this must be one of the most asked on the forum, but after reading dozens of similar ones I couldn't find a thread that is both up to date and has the same searching conditions that I have. So here it goes - please advise me a solid class to put time and effort in that would:
- be versatile and deep enough in PvP for me to both learn the basics in the beginning and to uncover or maybe even invent new strategies later on when I practice and understand things better;
- to be preferably defense-based. What I mean here is that I usually like to play defensively and prefer to counter opponents offence and riposte rather than rushing at him trying to suppress with offence. So defensive and control potential of the class is a big plus;

- it's great if the class has some utility, both non-combat and group combat, but I prefer to be more secure when isolated (being able to survive and retreat if outnumbered is a plus too) rather than to be essential in a group combat;

- Class shouldn't seriously hinder me in bashing on the other hand. It doesn't really have to be swift bashing of an unstoppable killing machine, but solid enough to do it on a constant basis without me getting bored of down times or hit-and-runs;

- I would prefer to stay away from good/evil-centric classes/cities, but it's not a must.

 

If a class I described exists, please also advise me a nice active house while we're at it - I have tried several houses in several cities before and it's discouraging to always see 1-2 house members online during my play time (that is CET +3, evening past 8pm or so). Thank you in advance!

Aereidhna

Runewarden and Shield maybe? I'm not that much into PVP but Runewarden has ridiculous utility. It's great for bashing, and with regards to combat, you've got your standard melee weapons (four different options depending on specialisation), plus ranged attacks (bow and thurisaz), runes, totems to prop, falconry, etc. There's a lot to learn and have fun with. All of the Cyrenian Houses seem quite active, I know the Shield focuses on teaching combat from the ground up if that's your thing.

Edited to add: To be honest, you can learn the game features from any class, and then switch class and have a ton of fun learning a new class, or whatever tickles your fancy. All the classes are great. I'm partial to runewarden because of its level of utility, personally, but I definitely recommend going with whatever suits your RP best. Serpent also comes to mind as a rec, it has a lot of utility and is pretty complex. 

Kei

I had a big post typed out, but @Aereidhna pretty well covered it. I'll also say Jester has a stupid amount of utility and tricks, and a fairly high skill cap. Cyrene is very active in general, and from what I hear the CIJ is also doing a lot, which you can also join as a Jester, Bard, Serpent, or Magi, all good classes ( @Aktillum or @Seraya can confirm CIJ related stuffs?)

Regardless of what you choose, welcome and enjoy, you'll find people willing to help -everywhere-.

Dimita

Runewarden is surely on my personal short list I have from reading classes descriptions, besides I used to have quite a big interest in Scandinavian mythology back when I was a student, but something stops me from picking that class right away somewhy. Perhaps I shouldn't get so concerned, pick a class and then change it indeed.  Serpent, on the other hand, would be a no-brainer for me should it have the annoyance and nearly endless possibilities of theft you would imagine a class like that would have. But from I have read, it has been limited by hardcoding and it will surely make me feel bad even though I never experienced what it used to be before. Not meaning to start a theft goods and bads flame in any way, shape or form though

Ahmet

Dimita said:

Runewarden is surely on my personal short list I have from reading classes descriptions, besides I used to have quite a big interest in Scandinavian mythology back when I was a student, but something stops me from picking that class right away somewhy. Perhaps I shouldn't get so concerned, pick a class and then change it indeed.  Serpent, on the other hand, would be a no-brainer for me should it have the annoyance and nearly endless possibilities of theft you would imagine a class like that would have. But from I have read, it has been limited by hardcoding and it will surely make me feel bad even though I never experienced what it used to be before. Not meaning to start a theft goods and bads flame in any way, shape or form though

First, I'd like to point out that as far as 1v1 goes, serpent is definitely not a 'beginner' class. Its certainly something you'd have to work at if you were interested. I'd suggest Blademaster personally, fairly simple kill setup, versatile, Shindo has great utility.

Austere

With the complexity of counting limbs as a blademaster, I would probably recommend serpent over that.  Serpents used to be considered the most complex, but with the illusion nerfs, I would probably say it's easier than counting limbs.  Plus, if all else fails, you can lean on snipe. 

Aodfionn

Druid/Sentinel. 

It's got a lot of utility - and a lot of things that help keep you alive, as well as a lot of options for escaping, getting around the continent, and that sort of thing.

I don't understand combat enough well to speak to Druid's ability to fight, but I do know that Sentinel - when wielded by someone creative like Mizik - is absolutely terrifying. 

Tael

Austere said:

With the complexity of counting limbs as a blademaster, I would probably recommend serpent over that.  Serpents used to be considered the most complex, but with the illusion nerfs, I would probably say it's easier than counting limbs.  Plus, if all else fails, you can lean on snipe. 

I suspect this attitude may be the result of having a lot of knowledge about afflictions already - it probably seems easier than it is for newer people. I think affliction combat is pretty unintuitive to most people and, in practice, I've heard of a lot more people finding serpent harder than blademaster and seen a lot more midbie blademasters doing better than midbie serpents, even after the changes to make illusions less essential.

And blademaster limb counting isn't that hard. You could do fine against most people without even having any kind of counter and just doing a test break with alternating slashes - since most setups require more than one double-break anyway, doing one more to see what it takes to break isn't that bad. If you understand the rough relationship between slashes, off-slashes, and compass, you can figure out the fastest path to a double-break on a person after one test.

Ahmet

Tael said:

Austere said:

With the complexity of counting limbs as a blademaster, I would probably recommend serpent over that.  Serpents used to be considered the most complex, but with the illusion nerfs, I would probably say it's easier than counting limbs.  Plus, if all else fails, you can lean on snipe. 

I suspect this attitude may be the result of having a lot of knowledge about afflictions already - it probably seems easier than it is for newer people. I think affliction combat is pretty unintuitive to most people and, in practice, I've heard of a lot more people finding serpent harder than blademaster and seen a lot more midbie blademasters doing better than midbie serpents, even after the changes to make illusions less essential.

And blademaster limb counting isn't that hard. You could do fine against most people without even having any kind of counter and just doing a test break with alternating slashes - since most setups require more than one double-break anyway, doing one more to see what it takes to break isn't that bad. If you understand the rough relationship between slashes, off-slashes, and compass, you can figure out the fastest path to a double-break on a person after one test.

There were no changes to make illusions less essential. There were changes making offensive illusions unuseable.

Also, second the alternateslash method.

Sena

Ahmet said:

There were no changes to make illusions less essential. There were changes making offensive illusions unuseable.

There were a lot of changes to make illusions less essential. Bite being sped up, flay giving venoms, slickness stripping sileris, etc.

Ahmet

Sena said:

Ahmet said:

There were no changes to make illusions less essential. There were changes making offensive illusions unuseable.

There were a lot of changes to make illusions less essential. Bite being sped up, flay giving venoms, slickness stripping sileris, etc.

Pfft. Liessssss!

Dimita

@Ahmet Does Shindo offer more utility than kaido does for monks? Because to me these two classes have quite alot in common, even though they're so different.

@Aodfionn Do Sylvans have less survivability and utility than other two forestal classes? As for Mizik, from what I have read on forums, I would imagine that any class being wielded by him is absolutely terrifying, I don't even hope to reach that degree of skill anytime soon if ever.

Aodfionn

Sylvans have fewer random utility skills and don't get Track/Dash, but viridian form is beastly.

Seth

Sylvans are in a good place for both group and solo combat. They do have one easy kill setup with Heartseed. The only thing is that you're going to be more of the aggressor as a Sylvan because you either want to prep for a Heartseed or out damage your opponent.

Jules

I'm curious whether any House is actually a great place to learn PvP at all.  It might be, but I have a feeling the best "ins" to PvP work slightly differently - so I am asking, both for my own curiosity, and because it might supply a better answer to the OP's question.  Even if my suspicion isn't correct, people will chime in with more great Houses (or more endorsements of Houses already mentioned) to prove their case. 

Ahmet

Jules said:

I'm curious whether any House is actually a great place to learn PvP at all.  It might be, but I have a feeling the best "ins" to PvP work slightly differently - so I am asking, both for my own curiosity, and because it might supply a better answer to the OP's question.  Even if my suspicion isn't correct, people will chime in with more great Houses (or more endorsements of Houses already mentioned) to prove their case. 

I think it's less the house and more citizenship in a city-state that experiences conflict often that exposes many (not all, but many) to various PvP situations, from raids to retribution.