Another Language Thread

Jarrod

I use languages almost exclusively as a "nyah nyah" for people who can't speak Dragon in lesserform, suckers.

Would like to see a more interesting partially learned system though.

Inuad

Aerek said:

I just want to be able to use half-fluent languages. I don't think that's unreasonable, given their cost. You're trying to add inconvenience to the language system, I'm trying to add convenience. You trying to maintain a system where we can't reasonably communicate at half fluency, I'm trying to make it so we can. We appear to be working toward different goals.

I don't think the system you're proposing, wherein you would have to repeat yourself multiple times for one 'line', and then have to do the same thing all over again for the next thing you would want to say, is in any way convenient. I'm not trying to add inconvenience, just pointing out that the effect you are going for, to be represented abstractly with a system akin to the mutter mechanic, can be represented with things already in the game.

Inuad said:
I'm not opposed to a new system for language (I'm at the point where continued learning will cost millions of gold to reach fluency), one which better valuates incremental investment/learning, I just don't think the way you're describing is the way to do it.

We're not working toward different goals in the big picture. I just don't think they way you're describing is the way to do it.

Aerek said:
but at the same time, being able to chop up my words to be 100% understood in a language I haven't fully learned massively de-values the need for perfect fluency, which isn't fair or desirable.

That's exactly my point with what you want to do. If you can suddenly understand someone who has, say, Basic understanding of a language, if they just say the same thing five times, how does that not de-value the need for perfect fluency? The only thing being perfectly fluent gets you is the ability to not have to repeat yourself. It's not fair for someone who has spent the time and money learning to fluency for someone else to be 100% understood when they've spent an eighth, or even less, to do the same. Chopping up your words to be 100% understood is effectively the same as repeating yourself multiple times to be 100% understood.

I really would like to see a new system implemented which makes partial investment worthwhile, to a degree. It would still need to reflect the fact that you are still learning, which means that sometimes, you still won't be understood. No matter how many times you say or do something, you still may not be able to convey a certain thought. I think that if any new system is introduced for language, you would need to preserve that difference between learning and fluency.

Xith

Keeping words that are player or city names unhidden would make sense. 

Also to prevent abuse, you could run a check of all valid 2-3 letter words and replace them with different nonsense. So Tar goss as becomes tar xehh as. 

Trey

Either make partial learned more useful or let me finish Vertani please 

Aeryllin

There is also the fact that learning all languages costs literal billions of gold.  Which seems a bit silly to me. Why should one tutor charge you 63k for a lesson and another 3k?

All languages should have the same cost per lesson no matter how many you know, and cost more as you advance and need to learn more difficult techniques.  Your basic vocabulary lessons as you're introduced to a language and learn to say "My aunt went to the library" should be lower cost - it requires a teacher far less effort to get such a lesson across.  The languages you'd have to sit down with an experienced teacher to learn difficult complex sentence structure, colloquialisms, conjugations, and whatnot to top off a language should be more expensive.

Scale the price with skill in an existing language, not by how many languages you've previously learned.

The current system has it so your final language lessons would be literal hundreds of millions of gold per.  That's just silly.  No one will likely ever have billions of gold to do something like that.

Inuad

Aeryllin said:

There is also the fact that learning all languages costs literal billions of gold.  Which seems a bit silly to me. Why should one tutor charge you 63k for a lesson and another 3k?

All languages should have the same cost per lesson no matter how many you know, and cost more as you advance and need to learn more difficult techniques.  Your basic vocabulary lessons as you're introduced to a language and learn to say "My aunt went to the library" should be lower cost - it requires a teacher far less effort to get such a lesson across.  The languages you'd have to sit down with an experienced teacher to learn difficult complex sentence structure, colloquialisms, conjugations, and whatnot to top off a language should be more expensive.

Scale the price with skill in an existing language, not by how many languages you've previously learned.

The current system has it so your final language lessons would be literal hundreds of millions of gold per.  That's just silly.  No one will likely ever have billions of gold to do something like that.

Well I think that was part of the point with the design. A soft cap to make it very difficult to collect them all. As to why tutors would cost a different amount. I've always imagined that they have some kind of clan between them, a Language Teachers of Sapience thing, or some such. They arbitrarily decided one day that each additional language would cost people more to learn. Why? Who knows, maybe they are trying to build themselves a tutor hangout.

Sena

If you made the cost scale independently for each language like that, either it would be absurdly expensive to learn even a single language, or it would be far too trivial to learn every language, no middle ground is possible with that system.

The absurd cost to learn all languages isn't even a slight problem, because it's not intended to be possible for anyone to learn every language. It's just that a matter of perception; if there was a hard cap of 5 languages for example, basically nobody would think it was ridiculous. But by making it a soft cap, so it's technically possible to learn every language (even if it will never actually happen), people see the extremely high numbers as something that needs to be fixed even though it's actually easier than something they'd see as reasonable.

Boosteya

Sena said:

even if it will never actually happen

@Lynara tried! May return for more; I don't know.

Edit: I'm minorly disappointed that this isn't about other Achaean languages, such as Qith.