Shrines

Vansittart

Jinsun said:

Right , but you can stroke your e peen and not have any shrines. @Jhui and co have made that example a few times. If it's a mechanic that you don't need to flex a public showing of your org's ego and is causing more annoyance than it is fun ( as evidenced by numerous threads on this topic) and is not even mechanically necessary to achieve the goal ( conflict and notoriety) then I could see people seeing it as pointless. It really can be, too. Have you ever participated in shrine conflict? It can be fun but a lot of dropping takes place as a random person dropping far off shrines before a group can defend. It doesn't add a ton to the game in terms of being a gold conflict driver or being necessary to show off as a group 

Well, yes, there are a lot of ways to boost your reputation, but we're talking about one specific example.  I don't really follow the argument that says one form of reputation bolstering doesn't matter because other forms exist, that doesn't make sense to me.

Shrines are a symbol of a couple of things: either a statement of neutrality and activity, or if you are an active faction, a statement of control.  Something that says "the followers of our God have the numbers, the dedication and the will to enforce control outside our home city".  The absence of shrines says the opposite.

They aren't mandatory, the above statement is all that you are playing for in a "shrine war".  I think it has benefits above and beyond that, I think it's often a step in a more general domination of the factional universe - winning begets winning, but that's neither here nor there.

As to participating in shrine conflict - on Vansittart, a bit.  Elsewhere, a lot.  As I said in Rants, it's not my favourite thing because I recognize it for what it is.  It doesn't need to lead to amazingly fair and balanced PK that occurs in a timezone that works for everyone.  It certainly isn't mandatory - if you aren't enjoying it, don't do it.  It's fine to lose a shrine war if you aren't having fun.  If you can't be bothered to re-raise a far off shrine, don't.

I agree that it isn't hugely important.  And I don't particularly enjoy bashing.  But is it a terrible drag that must be changed or removed?  Only if you make it so, by pretending that your participation is mandatory.  Sometimes, the game isn't making us unhappy, we're doing it to ourselves.

Tesha

Vansittart said:

Shrines are a symbol of a couple of things: either a statement of neutrality and activity, or if you are an active faction, a statement of control.  Something that says "the followers of our God have the numbers, the dedication and the will to enforce control outside our home city".  The absence of shrines says the opposite.

Hmm. I'm not sure about that. Babel's order could beat any order, I think, but they have like no shrines anywhere. I think the absence of shrines can say you just prefer focusing on other things like not bashing 24/7.

Mishgul

No they couldn't. They are so weak. Probably near the bottom somewhere.

Vansittart

Tesha said:

Vansittart said:

Shrines are a symbol of a couple of things: either a statement of neutrality and activity, or if you are an active faction, a statement of control.  Something that says "the followers of our God have the numbers, the dedication and the will to enforce control outside our home city".  The absence of shrines says the opposite.

Hmm. I'm not sure about that. Babel's order could beat any order, I think, but they have like no shrines anywhere. I think the absence of shrines can say you just prefer focusing on other things like not bashing 24/7.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying.  Winning a shrine war doesn't mean you're "best", it just means you won the shrine war - that you have the necessary attributes to do that.  That's all it means.  That's all it can usefully mean.  There is no meaningful concept of "best" when it comes to orders, it's just "best at particular thing X".

Bluef

Kuy said:
Part One and a half: Delos, the Kingless City
Perceived Problem:  Rogues often feel as though they have no way to reap the benefits of city-life, often sequestered to a solely Order or otherwise unaffiliated lifestyle which sees little mechanical benefit [outside of being the specialist of snowflakes].
Solution:  Beetlebluef, Beetlebluef, Beetle @Bluef .  Delos rules as the city without a king.  It's a merchant, gypsy town full of those who share your misunderstood plight.  You're not a rogue because everyone hates you, no.  You're a rogue because you seek to mediate between existences uncharted by current theology, because you simply cannot accept a world in which other people might trample on your tranquil journey to find yourself, or perhaps your feet just smell really freaking bad.  Whatever your reason, you have already given up a good portion of your mechanical investment in the game in pursuit of truly satisfying RP (true fact: kudos to you).  It's time you bring you back to the scene.  But only if you want to come.
Delos serves as a hub for all those who are cityless.  With a "Patron of the People" mindset (and the help of a little Alchemy), Delos has created a synthetic shrine, allowing all those who are without a city to bask in the glory that is the new scaling benefits.
For use within the system, any rogue who wishes to participate must first "tune" themselves to the synthetic shrine.  This is done in a quest which explains the fundamentals of how the system works in lieu of having a city to fall back on.  This also creates a sense of comradery amongst the rogue community [one you can completely ignore, if you prefer the hermit-spin on roguedom].

No idea why I was tagged in this, except that I'm a well-known rogue maybe? Cool ideas, @Kuy.

I will comment that this particular "perceived problem" seems a bit off to me though. As a rogue, I don't feel as though I have no way to reap the benefits of city life; I feel that city life has more headaches than benefits to offer me as a player. Hence, I'm a rogue.

I do love the idea of bringing rogues back into relevance though. Cool stuff. Off the top of my head, the DELOSIAN clan and RAW (Rogues and Wanderers) would probably jump to have something fun to do if changes like this went into play. 

Trey

Bluef said:

Kuy said:
Part One and a half: Delos, the Kingless City
Perceived Problem:  Rogues often feel as though they have no way to reap the benefits of city-life, often sequestered to a solely Order or otherwise unaffiliated lifestyle which sees little mechanical benefit [outside of being the specialist of snowflakes].
Solution:  Beetlebluef, Beetlebluef, Beetle @Bluef .  Delos rules as the city without a king.  It's a merchant, gypsy town full of those who share your misunderstood plight.  You're not a rogue because everyone hates you, no.  You're a rogue because you seek to mediate between existences uncharted by current theology, because you simply cannot accept a world in which other people might trample on your tranquil journey to find yourself, or perhaps your feet just smell really freaking bad.  Whatever your reason, you have already given up a good portion of your mechanical investment in the game in pursuit of truly satisfying RP (true fact: kudos to you).  It's time you bring you back to the scene.  But only if you want to come.
Delos serves as a hub for all those who are cityless.  With a "Patron of the People" mindset (and the help of a little Alchemy), Delos has created a synthetic shrine, allowing all those who are without a city to bask in the glory that is the new scaling benefits.
For use within the system, any rogue who wishes to participate must first "tune" themselves to the synthetic shrine.  This is done in a quest which explains the fundamentals of how the system works in lieu of having a city to fall back on.  This also creates a sense of comradery amongst the rogue community [one you can completely ignore, if you prefer the hermit-spin on roguedom].

No idea why I was tagged in this, except that I'm a well-known rogue maybe? Cool ideas, @Kuy.

I will comment that this particular "perceived problem" seems a bit off to me though. As a rogue, I don't feel as though I have no way to reap the benefits of city life; I feel that city life has more headaches than benefits to offer me as a player. Hence, I'm a rogue.

I do love the idea of bringing rogues back into relevance though. Cool stuff. Off the top of my head, the DELOSIAN clan and RAW (Rogues and Wanderers) would probably jump to have something fun to do if changes like this went into play. 

You were probably tagged for the Tharosian Estates.