I automate my affliction tracking, in that I use a modified version of Austere's aff tracker found on the forums here to show me what afflictions (around 80% accurate) that I believe my opponents have.
The rest is all manual commands. Well, manual in my sense. (Aliases/Macros)
Not manual in the @Sarapis sense of literally typing everything in vs. aliases.
My crystal ball says that the list of bans will start from the top of these results and go down. Just a guess!
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
I automate my affliction tracking, in that I use a modified version of Austere's aff tracker found on the forums here to show me what afflictions (around 80% accurate) that I believe my opponents have.
I automate the "free" things that can be done after commands that I physically send, like Engage after Lunges, Fury after Impales, Contemplate after DSLs, but I have a little bit of a phobia about putting the decision-making or acting power in the hands of a machine instead of myself. I do use lots of variables that I'll "load" actions into, (As in, I'll set a variable to "smash mid" or "battlefury focus speed", and then my normal macros will call that variable on every attack until I change it) so it's not like I don't use scripting to make my life easier and more convenient, but my client is never choosing my venoms, attacks, or peripheral offense for me.
Granted, knights don't have any third balances to handle. I can imagine I might have some scripts or triggers in place to help manage a third balance with less room for error if I had one, especially if that balance is often desyncronized from my main balances, such as with Bard, Occultist, and Dragoncurse. Some classes do just have more things to keep track of than others, and turning complex, multi-faceted operations into something that a human can easily control is essentially what scripting is there for.
Now that I think about it, buried somewhere in my stuff is a trigger to truewrack Aerek when he sends me a tell.
Aerek arrives from the north. Moving awkwardly, as though manipulated by invisible strings, Kandra scuttles in from the north. Moving awkwardly, as though manipulated by invisible strings, a diminutive homunculus resembling Kandra scuttles in from the north.
-- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
How do people in this thread feel about instances where there is a huge melee (i.e. an unbelievable amount of spam)? Does it influence your approach at all? It seems like it almost has to.
Even as a non-fighter whose main experiences are sporadic raid defense and the occasional CTF, that sounds awfully familiar. It seems like *someone* has to be keeping track of it all (and at the very least prioritizing targets) or it's just a wreck, and it's so, so much worse if the groups really are big.
Another question for people, related to some of the recent discussions. Do you feel like you'd enjoy more opportunities to engage in melees where there were fewer people (on both sides) if that were made possible? Achaea is the biggest IRE game, which is probably why we also seem to have some of the biggest, spammiest melee fights (which seems to almost demand some serious automation in terms of filtering and prioritizing information, at least by the person guiding the group). That said, I have a feeling people would still need to rely on a combat leader who would probably have made a fairly fancy script, but at least it might feel more like you could take in what was going on.
Even as a non-fighter whose main experiences are sporadic raid defense and the occasional CTF, that sounds awfully familiar. It seems like *someone* has to be keeping track of it all (and at the very least prioritizing targets) or it's just a wreck, and it's so, so much worse if the groups really are big.
Another question for people, related to some of the recent discussions. Do you feel like you'd enjoy more opportunities to engage in melees where there were fewer people (on both sides) if that were made possible? Achaea is the biggest IRE game, which is probably why we also seem to have some of the biggest, spammiest melee fights (which seems to almost demand some serious automation in terms of filtering and prioritizing information, at least by the person guiding the group). That said, I have a feeling people would still need to rely on a combat leader who would probably have made a fairly fancy script, but at least it might feel more like you could take in what was going on.
Most consistent raiders will tell you small group pk is the best. No one likes being spammed out. People like being tactical. Even automation requires some input because of curing priorities.
Personally, I have relays to pt for personal afflictions that have no third person message and are not easily noticeable. If I have to lead a defense, all of my target calling is manual (this includes my pt echo for raiding too), but I do have a intelligent function that relays three targets at a time for stormhammer, as well as auto enemies everyone in my room that isn't part of my group. Nothing makes you feel better than raiding with Jhui-daddy and calling the next target, seconds before he calls the same one. Glorious.
I get lost a lot when leading parties. I struggle to both do something useful while also calling targets. Its very difficult to do both, especially when you're one of the more prioritized people in the group. I do try and make up for it after I die by sticking around to call some targets, now that I don't have to worry about doing things myself, but that's not hella fun.
I automate my affliction tracking, in that I use a modified version of Austere's aff tracker found on the forums here to show me what afflictions (around 80% accurate) that I believe my opponents have.
Update!
Never!
1.0 for life!
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
I don't use triggers for offense, I prefer being able to react on my feet and not have a bad trigger screw me up. Only thing I do use are plenty of highlighting and echos that tell me what's going on.
To the extremely limited extent that I am even remotely capable in combat or have ever been, it's because I automated things.
My reaction speed for pretty much anything is, in general, not great. On top of that, despite being a fast typist and a text game enthusiast, I'm actually a very slow reader. To me, even a 1v1 is blisteringly fast - too fast for me to keep up with it, even with highlighting and gags (I don't mean I actually read the lines, I'm not an idiot, only that things simply happen too fast for me to keep track of). I spent a good while trying to learn to fight mostly manual a year or two ago when I was serpent, and maybe there's a level of highlighting and custom displays for things like afflictions that would change things, but my efforts felt mostly wasted - I knew the things I needed to do a lot of the time, but no amount of practice seemed to allow me to execute them. And that was for dstabs and hypnosis, which is nothing compared to the complexity of something like bard managing harmonics (including minuet), tunesmithing, asynchronous balance, and venoms, or the speed of something like nimble swiftcurse.
Automating things is one of the only options I have for participating in any meaningful way. And I imagine I'm probably not alone in that. And I'm glad that Achaea has a place for people like me. And as someone who enjoys difficult programming problems like this, Achaea also presents a pretty unique kind of gameplay for people like me.
And I can understand the frustration with highly-optimised automated offenses, but it's not like it's completely trivial to build them - possible certainly, but it requires knowledge, experimentation, practice, and a lot of time spent working on things. And I don't get the sense that these automated offenses are yet able to compete with the best combatants.
I think the difference is less that people who work on automated offense are bad or somehow cheating, and more that it's just a different style. As someone who both enjoys that style and relies on it, it frustrates me that everyone seems to have such a negative opinion of it simply because they don't enjoy it as much themselves. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. When every top-tier combatant is using a fully-automated offense because manual or semi-manual can't hope to compete, then that will be a pretty serious problem, but we don't seem to be there yet. And, again, it's not like there's just a mudlet function win(), automation requires a lot of work and thought and there are clear drawbacks too - the state of a fight can be very complicated, can change in invisible ways as people swap priorities and other hidden variables, and relying on automation means that you're essentially screwed whenever you get into a state you hadn't prepared for.
While I think ultimately it very well might become one, I don't think offense automation is a problem yet.
I automate my affliction tracking, in that I use a modified version of Austere's aff tracker found on the forums here to show me what afflictions (around 80% accurate) that I believe my opponents have.
Update!
Never!
1.0 for life!
There is literally no reason not to update at this point. Everything, including processing speed has been updated. The only difficulty is party relays (which are possible because I have them)
I get lost a lot when leading parties. I struggle to both do something useful while also calling targets. Its very difficult to do both, especially when you're one of the more prioritized people in the group. I do try and make up for it after I die by sticking around to call some targets, now that I don't have to worry about doing things myself, but that's not hella fun.
I use two targetting aliases, one for raids and one for everything else. As someone who grew up using "tar", it was fairly easy to rotate to "t" for raids. It also allows you to do a few other fancy things without having to remember if you toggled your relay variable or not.
Over years of exhausting and grueling effort, our shared system has reached such perfection that Rangor only has to call a target for us to all synchronize in unity, creating near instantaneously an impeccable combination of sheer forestal destruction. We've hesitated in utilizing this ultimate technique in its entirety, for fear of destroying Achaean combat as we know it - but now that the age of automation has arrived, the time is ripe to unleash this wave of terror upon you all.
It only fails when Rangor typos the target, but soon...soon we shall automate that too. Or he could learn to type.
Over years of exhausting and grueling effort, our shared system has reached such perfection that Rangor only has to call a target for us to all synchronize in unity, creating near instantaneously an impeccable combination of sheer forestal destruction. We've hesitated in utilizing this ultimate technique in its entirety, for fear of destroying Achaean combat as we know it - but now that the age of automation has arrived, the time is ripe to unleash this wave of terror upon you all.
It only fails when Rangor typos the target, but soon...soon we shall automate that too. Or he could learn to type.
Over years of exhausting and grueling effort, our shared system has reached such perfection that Rangor only has to call a target for us to all synchronize in unity, creating near instantaneously an impeccable combination of sheer forestal destruction. We've hesitated in utilizing this ultimate technique in its entirety, for fear of destroying Achaean combat as we know it - but now that the age of automation has arrived, the time is ripe to unleash this wave of terror upon you all.
It only fails when Rangor typos the target, but soon...soon we shall automate that too. Or he could learn to type.
If I had the credits or the money to buy enough credits I would make an Alot. That beast is fucking adorable. I would see if if I could get it coded to appear when people say 'alot' and just stare at them.
With the grammar in that sentence, it made me feel that Jules was referring to the mythical beast "Alot", of the forestal lands, and how he understands Rangor. (Someone has to?)
I only have abusive echoes. My dream is to create GordonSys, a large set of echoes and aliases that tries to make you cry every time you get in a fight.
"YOU HIT THEIR REBOUNDING SO HARD CHRIS BROWN LOOKS UP TO YOU." "THEY JUST STOOD UP. DID YOU EVEN FUCKING TRY TO IMPALE THEM?" etc
i'd probably love it if I can script up an auto offense for different strategies/opponents, but I cant code anything asides from basic highlights and triggers and it seems like a chore to learn (doesnt help that I usually get answers like 'lol learn2fight noob not code' when i ask a certain someone)
Basically I fight with all the F key macros, numpad, and tons of 3-letter aliases.
in fact, @Ainly just taught me yesterday how to make rebounding highlights only echo if it was my target, instead of getting spammed by curing highlights in every group fight.
edit: oh wait I got my contemplate/sap/catharsis from someone. @Nocroth I think
I only have abusive echoes. My dream is to create GordonSys, a large set of echoes and aliases that tries to make you cry every time you get in a fight.
"YOU HIT THEIR REBOUNDING SO HARD CHRIS BROWN LOOKS UP TO YOU." "THEY JUST STOOD UP. DID YOU EVEN FUCKING TRY TO IMPALE THEM?" etc
You slump slightly as the divinely-inspired strength leaves your body. echo("WHAT'S THE MATTER BOY, ARE THOSE JUST FOR SHOW?")
With a look of agony on \w+ face, \w+ manages to writhe \w+ free of the weapon which impaled \w+. echo("I'VE SEEN BIGGER PRICKS FROM ASIAN MATHLETES.")
You feel your passage through time slow. echo("GODDAMN YOU'RE SLOW! ALSO YOU HAVE AEON.")
You have been slain by .+. echo("EMBARRASSMENTS LIKE THIS ARE WHY DADDY LEFT.")
You have slain \w+. echo("FINALLY. I WAS ABOUT TO DIE OF BOREDOM.")
-- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
I get lost a lot when leading parties. I struggle to both do something useful while also calling targets. Its very difficult to do both, especially when you're one of the more prioritized people in the group. I do try and make up for it after I die by sticking around to call some targets, now that I don't have to worry about doing things myself, but that's not hella fun.
I use two targetting aliases, one for raids and one for everything else. As someone who grew up using "tar", it was fairly easy to rotate to "t" for raids. It also allows you to do a few other fancy things without having to remember if you toggled your relay variable or not.
Yeah, I have a targetting alias that auto calls my target too. Its still a struggle to keep an eye on what target I'm typing out, making sure I spell right, while keeping an eye on my stats to make sure I'm not about to die, occasionally having to clear the cmd line to bail out or kai heal or something.
As I discovered the other day, even doing a mind impatience x3 then batter while my opponenent is doing nothing but curing goes by way to fast for me to follow. No way I could keep up with multiple things to pay attention to per second.
If I had the credits or the money to buy enough credits I would make an Alot. That beast is fucking adorable. I would see if if I could get it coded to appear when people say 'alot' and just stare at them.
And take the only being in the world who can understand eagle Rangor's "hunt and peck" raiding orders? You are a cruel mistress.
Comments
The rest is all manual commands. Well, manual in my sense. (Aliases/Macros)
Not manual in the @Sarapis sense of literally typing everything in vs. aliases.
My crystal ball says that the list of bans will start from the top of these results and go down. Just a guess!
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
-Albert Einstein
Granted, knights don't have any third balances to handle. I can imagine I might have some scripts or triggers in place to help manage a third balance with less room for error if I had one, especially if that balance is often desyncronized from my main balances, such as with Bard, Occultist, and Dragoncurse. Some classes do just have more things to keep track of than others, and turning complex, multi-faceted operations into something that a human can easily control is essentially what scripting is there for.
Aerek arrives from the north.
Moving awkwardly, as though manipulated by invisible strings, Kandra scuttles in from the north.
Moving awkwardly, as though manipulated by invisible strings, a diminutive homunculus resembling Kandra scuttles in from the north.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Another question for people, related to some of the recent discussions. Do you feel like you'd enjoy more opportunities to engage in melees where there were fewer people (on both sides) if that were made possible? Achaea is the biggest IRE game, which is probably why we also seem to have some of the biggest, spammiest melee fights (which seems to almost demand some serious automation in terms of filtering and prioritizing information, at least by the person guiding the group). That said, I have a feeling people would still need to rely on a combat leader who would probably have made a fairly fancy script, but at least it might feel more like you could take in what was going on.
Personally, I have relays to pt for personal afflictions that have no third person message and are not easily noticeable. If I have to lead a defense, all of my target calling is manual (this includes my pt echo for raiding too), but I do have a intelligent function that relays three targets at a time for stormhammer, as well as auto enemies everyone in my room that isn't part of my group. Nothing makes you feel better than raiding with Jhui-daddy and calling the next target, seconds before he calls the same one. Glorious.
1.0 for life!
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
-Albert Einstein
To the extremely limited extent that I am even remotely capable in combat or have ever been, it's because I automated things.
My reaction speed for pretty much anything is, in general, not great. On top of that, despite being a fast typist and a text game enthusiast, I'm actually a very slow reader. To me, even a 1v1 is blisteringly fast - too fast for me to keep up with it, even with highlighting and gags (I don't mean I actually read the lines, I'm not an idiot, only that things simply happen too fast for me to keep track of). I spent a good while trying to learn to fight mostly manual a year or two ago when I was serpent, and maybe there's a level of highlighting and custom displays for things like afflictions that would change things, but my efforts felt mostly wasted - I knew the things I needed to do a lot of the time, but no amount of practice seemed to allow me to execute them. And that was for dstabs and hypnosis, which is nothing compared to the complexity of something like bard managing harmonics (including minuet), tunesmithing, asynchronous balance, and venoms, or the speed of something like nimble swiftcurse.
Automating things is one of the only options I have for participating in any meaningful way. And I imagine I'm probably not alone in that. And I'm glad that Achaea has a place for people like me. And as someone who enjoys difficult programming problems like this, Achaea also presents a pretty unique kind of gameplay for people like me.
And I can understand the frustration with highly-optimised automated offenses, but it's not like it's completely trivial to build them - possible certainly, but it requires knowledge, experimentation, practice, and a lot of time spent working on things. And I don't get the sense that these automated offenses are yet able to compete with the best combatants.
I think the difference is less that people who work on automated offense are bad or somehow cheating, and more that it's just a different style. As someone who both enjoys that style and relies on it, it frustrates me that everyone seems to have such a negative opinion of it simply because they don't enjoy it as much themselves. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. When every top-tier combatant is using a fully-automated offense because manual or semi-manual can't hope to compete, then that will be a pretty serious problem, but we don't seem to be there yet. And, again, it's not like there's just a mudlet function win(), automation requires a lot of work and thought and there are clear drawbacks too - the state of a fight can be very complicated, can change in invisible ways as people swap priorities and other hidden variables, and relying on automation means that you're essentially screwed whenever you get into a state you hadn't prepared for.
While I think ultimately it very well might become one, I don't think offense automation is a problem yet.
There is literally no reason not to update at this point. Everything, including processing speed has been updated. The only difficulty is party relays (which are possible because I have them)
I use two targetting aliases, one for raids and one for everything else. As someone who grew up using "tar", it was fairly easy to rotate to "t" for raids. It also allows you to do a few other fancy things without having to remember if you toggled your relay variable or not.
Over years of exhausting and grueling effort, our shared system has reached such perfection that Rangor only has to call a target for us to all synchronize in unity, creating near instantaneously an impeccable combination of sheer forestal destruction. We've hesitated in utilizing this ultimate technique in its entirety, for fear of destroying Achaean combat as we know it - but now that the age of automation has arrived, the time is ripe to unleash this wave of terror upon you all.
It only fails when Rangor typos the target, but soon...soon we shall automate that too. Or he could learn to type.
And then it'll be over.
WTB a name change plz.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
-Albert Einstein
It's 'a lot' /rage.
Formally petitioning to have Alot made into a Eleusian denizen.
With the grammar in that sentence, it made me feel that Jules was referring to the mythical beast "Alot", of the forestal lands, and how he understands Rangor. (Someone has to?)
"YOU HIT THEIR REBOUNDING SO HARD CHRIS BROWN LOOKS UP TO YOU."
"THEY JUST STOOD UP. DID YOU EVEN FUCKING TRY TO IMPALE THEM?" etc
Basically I fight with all the F key macros, numpad, and tons of 3-letter aliases.
in fact, @Ainly just taught me yesterday how to make rebounding highlights only echo if it was my target, instead of getting spammed by curing highlights in every group fight.
edit: oh wait I got my contemplate/sap/catharsis from someone. @Nocroth I think
echo("WHAT'S THE MATTER BOY, ARE THOSE JUST FOR SHOW?")
With a look of agony on \w+ face, \w+ manages to writhe \w+ free of the weapon which impaled \w+.
echo("I'VE SEEN BIGGER PRICKS FROM ASIAN MATHLETES.")
You feel your passage through time slow.
echo("GODDAMN YOU'RE SLOW! ALSO YOU HAVE AEON.")
You have been slain by .+.
echo("EMBARRASSMENTS LIKE THIS ARE WHY DADDY LEFT.")
You have slain \w+.
echo("FINALLY. I WAS ABOUT TO DIE OF BOREDOM.")
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
-Albert Einstein
As I discovered the other day, even doing a mind impatience x3 then batter while my opponenent is doing nothing but curing goes by way to fast for me to follow. No way I could keep up with multiple things to pay attention to per second.
And take the only being in the world who can understand eagle Rangor's "hunt and peck" raiding orders? You are a cruel mistress.