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Make Bashing/Hunting less boring
I like Achaea, and I love the roleplaying, politics, and very unique and VERY deep combat system.
But despite that, bashing/hunting remains very, very boring. Yes, bashing is supposed to be work, with the goal being dragon and, well, not having to bash as much any more. But, in my opinion, any goal is supposed to be about the journey, not the destination. If you don't enjoy the journey, then what is the point?
I get it, too. The main fun thing about Bashing is that areas that are frequently hunted out give less experience, whereas the less commonly traversed areas can give more as denizens give more experience the longer they stay alive. That encourages people to adventure and find uncommon areas for themselves, and it also encourages people to communicate and roleplay with their house or faction in order to more be informed about less travelled areas if that is their cup of tea. These are really good ideas that naturally happen. This isn't a criticism about finding which areas to hunt; simply, what happens when you get there.
Combat for most, if not all classes, simply consists of using the same ability over and over until the target is dead. As you advance in level, you get slightly more health and mana, and as you advance in your pertinent skill tree, your one ability increases in damage. While you grow, you learn a plethora of abilities and a lot of different ways of attack, ways to defend against other people's attacks, and ways to support your group in the giant chess game that is Achaea combat... against adventurers.
Against Denizens, you will rarely learn more than that one ability that you use over and over. Combat against denizens is slightly less complicated than combat in Dragon Warrior 1.
Granted, a fair counter argument is that bashing is supposed to be boring to encourage people to avoid it and participate in other aspects of the game. Maybe bashing is supposed to be not a destination or a journey, but something you do in the off time, between enjoying the intangible aspects of Achaea... and those do exist, I completely understand. But I have two counters to this:
A. Player vs. Player combat is a very important core of Achaea, in both the coded game and the intangibles in the culture. Whether it be raiding other towns, resolving political differences, hunting down betrayers and/or murderers... Conflict is a part of any story, and much of that conflict is resolved through combat. In order to be/stay competitive in said conflict, you HAVE to bash, not even maybe. Modern games have taught us that your journey in end-game doesn't start until you are max level, and there isn't that much of an exception in Achaea, at least not until level 50-80ish, depending on class.
B. There are better ways of handling this using game mechanics. Something could be done that's been done before in games, but to a more extreme. Make it so that someone gets one Achaean day of bashing that grants 10x experience per Achaean month. You can start it by using a command like TRAINING START, and it lasts through the day, and informs you when it finishes.
But that wouldn't address the problem of bashing itself being boring, it just makes it so you have to do less of it. I suggest two things:
1. Somehow think about and improve the grouping system so that you get exponentially more experience in a group, so that there is almost no reason not to be in a group. I know that the experience increases in a group currently, but I don't think it's enough. If it were, people would be forming hunting groups a lot more regularly.
2. Create a denizen combat system so that there is much more involved than using the same ability over and over. WoW does this by adding rotations, and little things here and there like abilities that generate counters, allowing to use a 'finisher' ability that uses said counters. I fully know that this isn't WoW, but these are all things that are done to make fighting mobs much less tedious.
3. Add more opposing factions and quests. Minia has been revamped and has a lot of quests now, but the rest of the world is disappointingly unchanged, for the most part. There are the dwarves and orcs, but those are overhunted for the most part for that very reason.
In conclusion, I believe Achaea is a lot more than it's denizen combat system. But I also feel that a lot of people might get bored of the combat system and leave before they discover the greater parts of the game. Improving the combat system, even if it's done in a manner that is cheesy and weird, is better than what it has now.
But despite that, bashing/hunting remains very, very boring. Yes, bashing is supposed to be work, with the goal being dragon and, well, not having to bash as much any more. But, in my opinion, any goal is supposed to be about the journey, not the destination. If you don't enjoy the journey, then what is the point?
I get it, too. The main fun thing about Bashing is that areas that are frequently hunted out give less experience, whereas the less commonly traversed areas can give more as denizens give more experience the longer they stay alive. That encourages people to adventure and find uncommon areas for themselves, and it also encourages people to communicate and roleplay with their house or faction in order to more be informed about less travelled areas if that is their cup of tea. These are really good ideas that naturally happen. This isn't a criticism about finding which areas to hunt; simply, what happens when you get there.
Combat for most, if not all classes, simply consists of using the same ability over and over until the target is dead. As you advance in level, you get slightly more health and mana, and as you advance in your pertinent skill tree, your one ability increases in damage. While you grow, you learn a plethora of abilities and a lot of different ways of attack, ways to defend against other people's attacks, and ways to support your group in the giant chess game that is Achaea combat... against adventurers.
Against Denizens, you will rarely learn more than that one ability that you use over and over. Combat against denizens is slightly less complicated than combat in Dragon Warrior 1.
Granted, a fair counter argument is that bashing is supposed to be boring to encourage people to avoid it and participate in other aspects of the game. Maybe bashing is supposed to be not a destination or a journey, but something you do in the off time, between enjoying the intangible aspects of Achaea... and those do exist, I completely understand. But I have two counters to this:
A. Player vs. Player combat is a very important core of Achaea, in both the coded game and the intangibles in the culture. Whether it be raiding other towns, resolving political differences, hunting down betrayers and/or murderers... Conflict is a part of any story, and much of that conflict is resolved through combat. In order to be/stay competitive in said conflict, you HAVE to bash, not even maybe. Modern games have taught us that your journey in end-game doesn't start until you are max level, and there isn't that much of an exception in Achaea, at least not until level 50-80ish, depending on class.
B. There are better ways of handling this using game mechanics. Something could be done that's been done before in games, but to a more extreme. Make it so that someone gets one Achaean day of bashing that grants 10x experience per Achaean month. You can start it by using a command like TRAINING START, and it lasts through the day, and informs you when it finishes.
But that wouldn't address the problem of bashing itself being boring, it just makes it so you have to do less of it. I suggest two things:
1. Somehow think about and improve the grouping system so that you get exponentially more experience in a group, so that there is almost no reason not to be in a group. I know that the experience increases in a group currently, but I don't think it's enough. If it were, people would be forming hunting groups a lot more regularly.
2. Create a denizen combat system so that there is much more involved than using the same ability over and over. WoW does this by adding rotations, and little things here and there like abilities that generate counters, allowing to use a 'finisher' ability that uses said counters. I fully know that this isn't WoW, but these are all things that are done to make fighting mobs much less tedious.
3. Add more opposing factions and quests. Minia has been revamped and has a lot of quests now, but the rest of the world is disappointingly unchanged, for the most part. There are the dwarves and orcs, but those are overhunted for the most part for that very reason.
In conclusion, I believe Achaea is a lot more than it's denizen combat system. But I also feel that a lot of people might get bored of the combat system and leave before they discover the greater parts of the game. Improving the combat system, even if it's done in a manner that is cheesy and weird, is better than what it has now.
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Comments
We've seen some small glimpses of the changes during recent events. From what I've seen personally the mechanics seem alot more intensive.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Now I
Gut Gut Gut
I like it.
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The only changes denizen combat needs is more reasons to team up (Ugrach mechanics but with less ridiculous one shot damage), along with rewards for teaming up that are not diminished versions of solo hunting. Experience being split and multiplied better, along with automatic gold splitting and gathering for group kills would be nice. The only way you are going to convince me to team up for bashing when I need gold or experience is to increases returns for both, while grouped. As it is, I can make more gold and experience solo than in a team. This fosters seclusion. Only hunted with one person frequently that I personally felt could keep up with my speed, and we both still made less than we could solo. Shouldn't be the case.
edit: fo clarification, I was agreeing with @Klendathu . Didn't want to quote OP.
Wait, is this actually a thing?!?
Also, are we allowed to hear about what kinds of changes are going in?
As for OP, if you want access to PVP without grinding your butt off, you need to give Imperian a try. If a certain kind of "roleplay and politics" is what matters most, Achaea is your game (possibly Aetolia or Lusternia as well depending on what you're looking for). If you want to PVP and think you can hold your own against the likes of Santar and Jhui (and by hold your own, I guess I mean not get beat up too badly/often), Achaea is also your game. The various IRE games seem to address the needs and wants of different kinds of players, so it's worth trying them out to see if one might be a best fit. I've only tried Lusternia briefly, and they have maybe the coolest toys, but conflict there seems to be fairly dead at the moment (by the players' own admission) and Aetolia is the only one I haven't tried.
EDIT: I guess there is also Midkemia...
Within the past six months or so, Achaea hired someone whose job is to improve and balance hunting. Seeing as how the only thing we have saw thus far (too my knowledge) was a change in all of our damage, I am sure they have more planned. Drawing a blank on dudes name, so I can't tag for more insight. Sorry.
He was also Aringar, the first player to reach dragon.
Simply put, take a look at some games where even characters who specialize in damage have an optimal rotation, but still have to figure out how to deal the most damage in the least time, especially when faced with nuances like taking damage yourself, multiple enemies, or single enemies that need to be killed quickly but don't have as much hitpoints.
This kind of thing actually requires thought. Do I use damage-over-time spells, or will my target be dead well before the spell runs its course? Are my multi-target attacks the most efficient way to fight 3 enemies? How about two? How about two big enemies and one little enemy? Do I use my multi-target attack until the little enemy is dead, and then switch to single target?
What about the 'finisher' I built up? Do I use it on the mob I'm fighting, or save it on the baddie in the next room?
There is so much you can do with a complex combat system. You actually have to think about what you are doing and what the most efficient way to clear an area is, not just mindlessly hitting "smite" or "gut" or "warp" every 3-4 seconds. I'm not saying make it needlessly complex, using 3 aliases instead of 1, but having a plethora of abilities that each have their moments which they are ideal, but the game is full of 'unideal' circumstances where the player has to resolve what's best.
And don't worry, I'm not going to give up on Achaea because I don't like the hunting. I just think the journey to level 80 can be just as fun as the roleplay.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
As has been stated before, Achaea is not a PvE game, and the complexity of the PvP far outstrips all the games above. I think when people ask for 'more interesting' bashing, they think changes will make it a more exciting thing to do. It likely won't, it will simply mean that you have to pay more attention while grinding for the same rewards, which is fine, because that's what PvE in Achaea and grinding are.
Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
I much prefer Achaea's current method. If I'm going to be doing something mindlessly for a long time, I'd like it to be as simple as possible.
Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."
As I've said many times though, bashing is never going to be on par with the DIKU-inspired games like WoW, with their tank/dps/healer paradigms. We are much more focused on every class being able to stand on its own and that's not going to change, though part of the above changes will make bashing in groups more attractive. Among other things, we don't have the player numbers to require that people find groups around their level to join in order to bash, so group bashing cannot be a requirement for us. It'll just be something that is more attractive than now rather than a requirement, for all but a small selection of mobs.