Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 6.2K All Categories
- 3.1K Everything Achaea
- 1.5K North of Thera
- 26 Archives of the Terraformer
- 257 The Matsuhama Arena
- 885 The Golden Dais of Creation
- 299 The Scarlattan Theatre
- 149 The Blank Canvas
- 2K Getting Help
- 412 General Questions
- 258 Quick Class Questions
- 1.3K Tech Support
- 313 Client Help
- 486 Curing Systems and Scripts
- 841 Off-Topic
- 255 The Wander Inn
- 586 The Universal Membrane
- 298 Class Discussions
- 298 Individual Class Sections
- 20 Alchemist
- 9 Apostate
- 30 Blademaster
- 9 Depthswalker
- 14 Druid
- 4 Infernal
- 20 Jester
- 19 Magi
- 34 Monk
- 11 Occultist
- 8 Paladin
- 7 Priest
- 29 Runewarden
- 18 Sentinel
- 26 Serpent
- 20 Shaman
- 9 Sylvan
Dragon alternatives
The chances that they'll add an alternative to dragons are pretty low, but not everyone wants their hunting reward to be a giant, scaly lizard with a functionally fixed description (outside of color varieties) of questionable size and the apparent ability to go through tiny doorways and fit in tiny rooms all the same.
So this raises the question... what would you rather be?
I'd like to be some kind of primal mage. I suppose the most obvious fictional examples would be like the Avatar state from Avatar: The Last Airbender or Super Saiyan from DBZ, except rebalanced so it's not actually better - kind of like what you might see in a fighting game where both the character's normal and super forms are equally available as characters.
The fluff would be that your old skills simply don't exist (except perhaps as faint echos, such as possibly determining fluff and minor details in the same way dragon colors do it for dragons), because you're just too powerful to use them anymore, having access to Aldar magics and whatnot. I imagine it'd have some similarities to dragons in terms of spells, but with some weapon use as well (perhaps defined by your class, so blademasters still use their blades, druids might use staves, knights use whatever they're specialized for, etc.), with most of the differences melting away in the face of inhuman skill and power (aka mostly just a fluff thing).
I don't know what actual Aldar magic exists, so this is mostly me just saying what I think would sound cool, but I could imagining summoning mithril chains to pull or bind people, burning people with primal flame, summoning phantom weapons, and using words of power to cripple people.
You wouldn't be an actual Aldar, obviously - just a mortal filled with primal, quasi-immortal energy, drawing upon some of their magic, which I think is roughly the same general fluff behind dragon magic? Just in this case, less giant scaled beast, more glowy eyes of power, inhuman purpose, and reality-warping sorcery.
So this raises the question... what would you rather be?
I'd like to be some kind of primal mage. I suppose the most obvious fictional examples would be like the Avatar state from Avatar: The Last Airbender or Super Saiyan from DBZ, except rebalanced so it's not actually better - kind of like what you might see in a fighting game where both the character's normal and super forms are equally available as characters.
The fluff would be that your old skills simply don't exist (except perhaps as faint echos, such as possibly determining fluff and minor details in the same way dragon colors do it for dragons), because you're just too powerful to use them anymore, having access to Aldar magics and whatnot. I imagine it'd have some similarities to dragons in terms of spells, but with some weapon use as well (perhaps defined by your class, so blademasters still use their blades, druids might use staves, knights use whatever they're specialized for, etc.), with most of the differences melting away in the face of inhuman skill and power (aka mostly just a fluff thing).
I don't know what actual Aldar magic exists, so this is mostly me just saying what I think would sound cool, but I could imagining summoning mithril chains to pull or bind people, burning people with primal flame, summoning phantom weapons, and using words of power to cripple people.
You wouldn't be an actual Aldar, obviously - just a mortal filled with primal, quasi-immortal energy, drawing upon some of their magic, which I think is roughly the same general fluff behind dragon magic? Just in this case, less giant scaled beast, more glowy eyes of power, inhuman purpose, and reality-warping sorcery.
4
Comments
Would still like to see more choice than colour. Dragon has never been a draw for me (plus maybe some brainwashing from Lupus' distaste for dragons), and I know I'll probably wind up at level 99 at some point (probably soon, too), and just not do it. See, there are people who hunt high levels for reasons other than dragon.
There are lots of races from achaean lore that could be appealing alternatives. I always thought the Nevaharr sounded interesting. There have also been powerful races introduced in events, such as the Vertani.
I'd be much happier, though, if somebody would get around to fixing that goddamn bug that's currently keeping me from becoming Elder Dragon. My issue about it got turned into a bug report and then deleted because it was a replica of an existing one, and I know that I'm not the only person waiting on the fix, but currently it's impossible to get Elder Dragon.
Anyway!
As far as Aldar magic is concerned, generally there isn't any tied up in actual abilities. However, a bunch of artifacts have as their default description references to Aldar magic that was used in their creation. Off the top of my head, the SoA is covered with Aldar runes, and the Gilded Page has Aldar script on it. There's also the Aldar Diadem, Aldar Talisman, Gauntlets of the Aldar and so on. Their magic definitely seems to be rooted in creation of extremely potent, well, artifacts, that can't be reproduced by "modern" adventurers, which likely reflects that the Aldar were the original servitors to the Elder Gods, before the Chaos Wars and subsequent creation of Celani (of whom Han-Tolneth was the first). The guys who did the maintenance and creation of stuff, basically.
If anything there probably would be some sort of "Words of Power" thing going on, maybe tied to some sort of runic script, but beyond that I'm not sure.
Greater Dragon magic isn't exactly the same (though Incantation is pretty much all about chanting in the dragon tongue, which builds up an invisible wave of power that you subsequently direct at your target), as they have things like the Dragoncurse (no words or anything, just thinking really hard "You. Cursed. Now.") and innate abilities to manipulate the Veil Extant. Veilglance bends the Veil to let them look at a distant place, while Dragonsense automatically detects where in the world somebody is (and is a 6-crown artifact from the SoW). Pierce the Veil involves literally tearing/folding a hole in reality to travel to the Parthren Gare. And conjuring illusions is also manipulating the Veil to show something around a person, Veildeliver bends the Veil to deliver something rather than just look at them like Veilglance, and of course Enmesh also calls on the Veil to bind a foe.
Hrm. Thinking about it, Greater Dragons really do manipulate/warp reality a lot.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
The different racial forms would share a class, with only minor mechanical differences (like racial traits, but a bit more significant; maybe one special ability and one major bonus for each race) between them, and bigger aesthetic differences (such as abilities that work exactly the same mechanically, but with entirely different flavour, for example a beckon-type ability that grabs the target with your tongue for grooks, with your tail for xorans, leaps after them and drags them back for rajamala, etc.).
If there are options other than dragon, it also makes it easy to add bashing incentives beyond level 99. You could pick one of the three endgame choices at level 99, then pick a second at level 120, and at level 140 you can have all three.
Dwarves get their own mine to manage. Supervise new hires, pay wages, direct operations. Does your crew dig deep or go broad? What do they try and mine for: coal, iron, precious metals, gems? Do you skimp on reinforcing the tunnels to maximise profits? (oh shit your mine just collapsed, 44 dead... on the upside their orphans will be looking for jobs) How much security do you invest in: guards to ward off vagabonds, mages to deal with *adventurers*, assassins to counter saboteurs from rival mines seeking out monopolies? And there would be cool disasters like striking magma, hauntings, unearthing eldritch relics, etc. If managed well, the mine would be a source of income and rare resources. If managed poorly, you'd have to pay wages out of your own pocket to prevent your workers from walking off the job.
Horkvals can form their own hive and supervise its expansion. The queen pumps out larvae and directs daily operations, but she serves the will of the Overlord (ie. you). Manage resources. Supervise expansion. What type of larvae will be birthed: soldiers, workers, drones, psychic vessels to bolster your queen? Wage war on rival hives. Guide your hive to prosperity, and your queen will strengthen you with psychic energy and a tithe of royal nectar.
Tsol'aa get a spirit tree. Guide its growth as a flourishing bastion of natural life, a lucrative source of fruit and sap, or a corrupt and twisted avatar of blight. Reap its harvest, and dally with the creatures who come to dwell in its branches. Park your pet spider in its web-strung upper branches once it grows large enough.
Trolls may claim the legacy of Gruul as their birthright, their vast experience and exploits qualifying them for entrance into the planeswalking Mercenaries of Arn. They will be offered bounties on badass NPCs, and can kick back in the off-plane mercenary headquarters.
Grooks gain secret knowledge of the creation of their race, and entrance into their long-lost true ancestral home: the muck-flooded city-labyrinth beneath Grukai Swamp. Spelunking its sunken halls, they may discover fragments of the magnetic crystals used to store the notes of experiments performed by ancient grook alchemists, scientists, and wizards, and complete those experiments for rewards and to help return the city to greatness.
Humans get like an art gallery or a bar or something? Not sure why I'm mentally associating Achaean humans with Manhattanites.
Mhun get, I don't know. Maybe they get a mine too. Minecraft: mhun vs dwarves.
Rajamala, satyr, and siren, I am struggling to extrapolate from their barren racial cultures. Xoran have a better racial culture but yeah idk for them either.
Oh I forgot atavians. Atavians gain nobility status among Arcadians, which comes with some perks and privileges? A vote on Arcadian council matters, a low-rent loft apartment in one of the upper districts, discounts in their shops, a library pass, access to the skyways that let them dive off Erymanthus and soar down to the lands below etc.
Otherwise, maybe like a "Veilwalker" or something that manipulates the Veil similar to a drain and has different powers.
Then there are both race-based and faction-based endgame choices, along with the standard universal dragon.
I don't know... so much of achaea is very customisable, and then there's dragon. With the exception of a slight variations granted by colour, where absolutely everybody chooses from the same options, a dragon is a dragon is a dragon.
People keep saying end game. Maybe if it wasn't all the same, there would be better retention of players who got that far.
I'm rambling. Stalling. Don't want to go through the stuff in my basement. I ran out of ramble. Halp.
The rules are - describe yourself whatever the hell you want as long as it's humaniod. All three races have the same endgame buffs and skills but are written with different flavours. (Yeleni exude Warmth for people in the same room while the Azudim equivilant is called Miasma)
I completely agree though. It used to feel like it was a big deal when you had a dragon with you or you discovered that the enemy had a dragon among them. If there's anything comparable today, it was reminiscent of how people frequently describe facing Jhui with the Staff and the Huskmaker and all that. If anything, it was actually fine that they were overpowered - there weren't so many of them that it was a constant problem and it made them even more special.
The visual of a dragon performing many of the skills was incredibly weird, and I'm glad the new skills rectified that (though there's still the remaining, widely-acknowledged issue of dragons not making much sense in many indoor rooms), but the fact that Dragon had to be turned into a class comparable in power to others because there were too many dragons for it to be fun for them to remain overpowered is pretty indicative of the bigger issue I think.
My ideal solution would be something akin to Aetolia's system, likely justified ICly as a sort of mini-ascension/reincarnation into Aldar. But that would likely require pretty substantial re-evalulation of the leveling requirements in Achaea. Since Aetolia's endgame system actually contributes meaningfully to combat ability rather than just being a separate class, I think it's fairly important to recognise that Aetolia is typically described as a much easier game to reach level 99 in. General opinion seems to be that you want to reach that point before getting into combat. Given the current experience curve and experience offered by mobs in Achaea, a big mechanical advantage that necessitates combatants to reach level 99 to be competitive would be excruciating. Either the XP curve would require some attention (likely a pretty big balancing job), or the benefits would have to be restricted to mostly convenience/noncombat stuff.
As for retaining dragons in some form, but making them more special, I actually like the idea of making the skillset even stronger, but making it a bigger prestige thing. Perhaps there are only, I don't know, eight dragons. Maybe they're the top eight, by XP, active players every year (or maybe changing less frequently than that). Maybe it's the top XP player from each city (The Dragon of the West, the Dragon of the East, the Dragon of the North, the Dragon of the Wilds, The Dragon of the South, and the Dragon of the Dark - or maybe each city is associated with a particular colour). Or maybe one of the dragons is the top active player by XP, another is the top player by combat ranking, another is the last bardic winner, and another is the highest ranked explorer - that would be a nice way to add some meat to those achievements and would be a way to offer powerful, simpler combat efficacy through what are effectively overpowered abilities as a reward for non-combat dominance. Maybe we go all Dark Sun and the city-leaders are the dragons. Or any combination of the above. It would be neat for dragonhood to be less about passing a predeterminted threshhold and more about actually being the best at something. Most of all, it would be neat for raids to more rarely involve dragons and for them to be a way bigger deal when they do get involved.
Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."
The class itself does present a bit of a problem though. Even if you want dragons to be much more special, rarer, and more powerful, it seems a great shame to throw away all that design work that went into making another complex, balanced class, or to take that class away from people who enjoy it.
Oh, and that would be a good racial alternative for Human. I like the racial alternative y'all are coming up with, but you seem to be drawing a blank for Humans. It would be AWESOME to go all Apache Chief (eeeeenuckchuk!) with my legendary Human.
While it really wouldn't make sense to get rid of dragon in favor of a whole new system, it wouldn't be too far fetched to split dragons off into a few categories via some Mhaldorian or Occultist ritual gone horribly wrong (or amazingly right). The grandeur of dragon itself has been diluted by the sheer numbers of people that have attained it. I think it's in the 300s in the xp rankings where dragons finally stop and that's not counting the unranked dragons that could come back at any time.
It's not particularly a bad thing that dragons are so numerous, but it is one of the reasons I don't really want to go for it. Splitting dragons into a few different versions (flavor only) would minimize any type of balancing needed and would go a long way to giving them a sort of factional tie.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
I don't know about dragons. IC my character wants to eventually reach it. OOCly, I get tripped up on the mhun becomes a dragon becomes a mhun thing. I'd prefer something more humanoid for my character, but I have a long way to go until I'll have to reconcile the dragon thing in my mind anyway.
Something racial-based would be fun. I chose mhun for specific reasons when creating Kasya. I also wouldn't mind faction-based, even if it's just an added descriptor.