Hashan- a rather empty city?

Siora

So I'd been thinking of starting up a new character, and I'd been looking at Hashan. But stalking the qw <city> for the last few days, it seems evident that Hashan is lacking a significant number of players compared to others, for example, like Cyrene (which seems about to burst). Is there a particular reason why? Or have I been checking in at the wrong times? Perhaps something to do with the Renaissance?

Also just as a side question, I'm a little confused about the tradeskill synthesis. Is it only viable if you are a city member, since it requires a laboratory? Or are there ways around this? Thanks

Athelas

<troll>
Would be great if the gods would allow @Rangor to take the Rangers into Hashan, and turn it back into the forest it's supposed to be.
</troll>

Vayne

Hashan has been through sine severe restructuring losing several major organisations in the last year or so. This is all leading up to the renaissance which will revitalize and add new houses and focus to the city.

Unfortunately, Hashan is next to last on this list and I think a lot of people are tired of waiting and playing alts in other cities that already have their shiny new renaissance houses. I have noticed Hashan a bit empty lately myself as well, but usually we have a good amount of people around at peak hours.

Good news is we are next in the renaissance and things should bounce back soon. Hashan has a rich culture and arrange gods, and I am confident the renaissance will propel out to new heights

Xasha

Regarding the second question, I'm quite sure that you need to be in a city to use a lab. Although there might be a public one, like the Ourobori in Tasur'ke for Enchantments. It would be good if someone else who actually knows can verify this.

Relating to this, I myself actually had a question about harvesting. Didn't there used to be Oakstone laws/ control regarding how much you could harvest and blah blah for the protection of Nature? Since anyone can harvest now, what's going on with that? Any rules?
 

Vayne

I hate posting on my phone, especially looking at the auto correct abomination my previous post is, but to answer the synthesis question, you have to be a member of a city to use its lab. This is a hold over from the intro of alchemists which tied them closely to their city. There are no public labs currently.

Ourania

I have been watching and there has been a decline, a lot of this has to do with the Renaissance. Hashan is a tough one to crack, so it is taking time, and also there are lots of new changes in other cities so many people want to nosy around and play there. 

I have faith though, as always!

Blujixapug

Hashan has what experts would refer to as "problems".

For a long time it struggled with the lack of a strong identity, attracted a disproportionate number of people interested in politicking, and became a bit of a haven for toxic drama, intrigue, and backstabbing.

Clever and dedicated people have been working hard on fixing its problems. I'm not sure what shape it's in now, but it is possible that it may not be a bad idea to join, if you are optimistic, open-minded, and know thyself. We have somewhat recently seen the Merchant House leave Hashan to become rogue, and the Serpent Lords House leave Hashan to become a rogue high clan. The Black Lotus and Spirit Walkers Houses remain. We don't really know what the timetable is for Hashan's renaissance, or what their House landscape will look like afterwards, but it is almost definitely a matter of months (not weeks, not years).

Nicaara

Xasha said:

Regarding the second question, I'm quite sure that you need to be in a city to use a lab. Although there might be a public one, like the Ourobori in Tasur'ke for Enchantments. It would be good if someone else who actually knows can verify this.

Relating to this, I myself actually had a question about harvesting. Didn't there used to be Oakstone laws/ control regarding how much you could harvest and blah blah for the protection of Nature? Since anyone can harvest now, what's going on with that? Any rules?
 

You used to be able to actually overharvest plants, when only forestals had the ability to harvest, but with the Harvesting tradeskill they got rid of that. You can harvest as much as you want now without depleting the resources bad enough so where they will not regrow.

Klendathu

Ashtan is also suffering from a decline in population, but that is somewhat masked by the amount of larger than life characters who inhabit it. Sad as it will be to close the doors on the Ashuran dojo for the last time, the Renaissance can't come quick enough.

Vayne

Klendathu said:

Ashtan is also suffering from a decline in population, but that is somewhat masked by the amount of larger than life characters who inhabit it. Sad as it will be to close the doors on the Ashuran dojo for the last time, the Renaissance can't come quick enough.

I really think this is the current problem for Hashan, we are stuck in neutral waiting for the renaissance while people try it all the cool new houses.

I think it is only minimally compounded by the problems @Blujixapug pointed out but not a direct effect of them. Hashan until recently has always had a significantly active player base.

Achimrst

Xasha said:

Regarding the second question, I'm quite sure that you need to be in a city to use a lab. Although there might be a public one, like the Ourobori in Tasur'ke for Enchantments. It would be good if someone else who actually knows can verify this.

Relating to this, I myself actually had a question about harvesting. Didn't there used to be Oakstone laws/ control regarding how much you could harvest and blah blah for the protection of Nature? Since anyone can harvest now, what's going on with that? Any rules?
 

There is no Oakstone anymore.

Orzaansyn

Achimrst said:

Xasha said:

Regarding the second question, I'm quite sure that you need to be in a city to use a lab. Although there might be a public one, like the Ourobori in Tasur'ke for Enchantments. It would be good if someone else who actually knows can verify this.

Relating to this, I myself actually had a question about harvesting. Didn't there used to be Oakstone laws/ control regarding how much you could harvest and blah blah for the protection of Nature? Since anyone can harvest now, what's going on with that? Any rules?
 

There is no Oakstone anymore.

But the forests continues to attack its enemies. Even if that is off topic.

Achimrst

Orzaansyn said:

Achimrst said:

Xasha said:

Regarding the second question, I'm quite sure that you need to be in a city to use a lab. Although there might be a public one, like the Ourobori in Tasur'ke for Enchantments. It would be good if someone else who actually knows can verify this.

Relating to this, I myself actually had a question about harvesting. Didn't there used to be Oakstone laws/ control regarding how much you could harvest and blah blah for the protection of Nature? Since anyone can harvest now, what's going on with that? Any rules?
 

There is no Oakstone anymore.

But the forests continues to attack its enemies. Even if that is off topic.

If you would use score and look at your enemies you would see a nice addition to it. You are now enemied to the forest exterminator!

Jules

I'm kind of surprised to hear that Ashtani consider Ashtan to be in a decline that... from where I stand, I can't try to characterize how bad it is, but it sounds like it's significant enough to be worrisome.  Is it pretty much just temporary, related to shiny renaissance things?  The only other thing I can think of, which is sort of related, is that, while Ashtan's model allows it to be a great haven for PK, it's also sort of "boring" at first glance, because it doesn't have extremist RP stuff (but this has never been a problem in the past and has in fact been an incredible asset when combined with Ashtan's "large than life" characters). 

Herenicus

I get that they are bored these days, but 2-5 straight hours of raids and skirmishing is not the way to handle it. Even if some defenders are enjoying themselves, forcing yourself to the top of organizational and individual priorities to satisfy an itch for marathon PvP just doesn't evince a healthy respect for the time and independence of real people. What's so hard about using QWHOM to round up a group of willing and consensual PvP opponents to set up the fight you're after? Is it the "willing" part? Who's fault is that?

Jules

Well, that's a different topic (even if it is dear to my heart too)... and... all of the things some of us have said in those threads.  I hope some of them happen. 

EDIT:  true, it's somewhat related because PK is a huge retention tool for Ashtan.

Jakarana

Not necessarily fully relevant, but I've loved Hashan because of, besides having the most sane and realistic layout of any of the cities, but because any amount of population fits it well.
When it was overflowing, it was an overpopulated, brimming hive of scum and villainy.
When it's devoid of people roaming the streets, it's got this eerie abandoned urban feeling I love. Might just need more Graffiti

This character is a rogue but frequents Hashan over any given city for shopping (The clothing option in Cyrene are terrible) or whenever I just feel like messing about in an urban environment, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. So don't necessarily trust the city who fully, because Hashan has always felt to me like a city for the cityless more than New Thera, Delos, or anything of the sort.

More on topic, as other people have said: Out of Hashan's ebbs and flows, it's currently in it's ebb.
Don't let that dissuade you. If you think a character fits better as Hashani, than do it. There's few things worse than just jamming a Hashani at Heart into Cyrene, only because it's got big numbers. Or a Targossian at heart, or Eleusian at heart, Ashtanner at heart, Gods Forbid someone that belongs in Mhaldor.
It'd only compound to the problems. Of both Hashan's current population, and the fact that Cyrene (as it seems to me) has the most dysfunctional, disjointed theme and roleplay of any city I've been a part of. And that's coming from someone who's formerly played a Malevolent Rogue Jester kicked out of CIJ and inhabiting Shallam's Sewers, piggy-backing off of a Templar's connections.

Kaie

<removed> Positive feelings only.

Jules

If this is even somewhat true, it's probably beyond the scope of what players can fix.  It would require a well-planned hard reset by admin (something Achaea would probably benefit from happening more often in general). 

Kaie

I agree a hard reset would benefit Hashan. It's not the Ren changes that have Hashan's population dwindling.

Jakarana

Kaie said:

Being lead by people who pride themselves in their "ability" to manipulate or distort truths to get their way. Is it really any wonder why the so much of the playerbase distrusts and wants nothing to do with you? There are few things hated more than a manipulative and corrupt leadership. Or feeling like you can never rise up in the city as leadership positions are passed back and forth. Why put effort into it, if I'll always be nothing?
Bad leadership has tarnished Hashan's name.

You could start by admitting you have a problem, then finding a way to fix said problem.

Well I mean, the question here is if this is truly a problem in the OOC sense? And does it really need to be fixed?
Hashan just reeks of the kind of crap-hole to have bad leadership and be rife with corruption in it's very own core theme. And it's probably going to suffer from that.
Having despicable leadership isn't always an inherently bad thing (Mhaldor gets by pretty well) and that's a fine and dandy IC trait that some people may be seeking.

But if there's an OOC sense of corruption and passing titles between Skype Groups and real life friends made outside the game, and they are going out of their way to make it as unfun as possible for newbies in the houses out of an OOC-centric fear for their positions of power, then -but only then- is when I'd agree there is a serious issue.
I've never been one to try and climb the power ladder, especially the city one, so I have never seen evidence of it, yet I can't -truly- speak out of experience.

Bluef

Jakarana said:

Kaie said:

Stuff 

Well I mean, the question here is if this is truly a problem in the OOC sense? And does it really need to be fixed?
Hashan just reeks of the kind of crap-hole to have bad leadership and be rife with corruption in it's very own core theme. And it's probably going to suffer from that.
Having despicable leadership isn't always an inherently bad thing (Mhaldor gets by pretty well) and that's a fine and dandy IC trait that some people may be seeking.

But if there's an OOC sense of corruption and passing titles between Skype Groups and real life friends made outside the game, and they are going out of their way to make it as unfun as possible for newbies in the houses out of an OOC-centric fear for their positions of power, then -but only then- is when I'd agree there is a serious issue.
I've never been one to try and climb the power ladder, especially the city one, so I have never seen evidence of it, yet I can't -truly- speak out of experience.

Speaking of prior experiences when it comes to Hashan hasn't led to positive results here on the forums. It's often viewed as unnecessary negativity or pettiness rather than constructive criticism. I give Hashan's players credit for wanting to turn things around; it's evident some people are genuinely trying to do so. Cracking down on what people consider "corruption" as well would only benefit these individuals and the city. It's a difficult situation really because after so much crap in the past (for the older players still there) there comes a sense that new players may be there to cause trouble or spy for their alts, which isn't always the case; treating them like they may be though could be what has forced some people to shake off the new city that's trying to emerge. Anyway, I wish them all the best and hope things after the Ren turn around for the city. (If not, I hope a hard reset is considered. The city has so much potential!)

Jakarana

Bluef said:

It's a difficult thing really because there becomes a sense that new players are there to cause trouble or spy for their alts, which isn't always the case; treating them like they may be though is what has forced some people to shake off the new city that's trying to emerge.

Wow. Well yeah, if they're under the assumption that people are literally breaking the Alts/Seconds rules in severe ways by default, and they accommodate for that... That's pretty bad.
I can get paranoia, because backstabbing power-plays are expected by people that use them, but if it crosses over to a OOC level like that, or affects newbies very negatively (there should be sufficient rank padding with all the background checking and paranoia garbage to prevent that kind of thing in the lower-middle, not the very beginning) that's a big problem.
I never personally experienced that, but last time I was an official Hashani was like 3 real life years ago at least, 

Twilight

As I understand from Tecton, both Targossas and Hashan currently share the lowest population levels out of all the cities, with Hashan probably dipping the furthest. This is mostly due to the Renaissance and lack of a major archetype in Hashan's case (as compared to the other cities).

The Garden is well aware of the challenges we have. There are plenty of exciting changes in store for Hashan, so I have faith that many of its issues will be resolved in time. That said, I really enjoy the batch of players we have there! The current leadership has been composed of some of the best in a good while, and I know they are working hard on the player's end to transform what they can in an IC manner.

I'm looking forward, along with Ourania and the rest of the Garden, to helping with that!

Kaie

Cool. I would like to see it turned around and become a productive respectable city. I think it will be a long road to recovery though, because not only changing from within but having to change the general outlook of the other players. As a city Hashan could thrive. I know I tend to rag on Hashan pretty hard, and my view of it is slightly jaded, but I haven't had any issues with the current leadership. The previous leadership was pretty toxic to be honest, but if the changes are so extensive to resolve these things, I am excited to see them happen.

@jukarana I would say it was OOC problematic. It was absolutely toxic.

Herenicus

Stirring an old turd ad nauseam ain't exactly aromatherapy, either.

Vayne

Kaie said:

Cool. I would like to see it turned around and become a productive respectable city. I think it will be a long road to recovery though, because not only changing from within but having to change the general outlook of the other players. As a city Hashan could thrive. I know I tend to rag on Hashan pretty hard, and my view of it is slightly jaded, but I haven't had any issues with the current leadership. The previous leadership was pretty toxic to be honest, but if the changes are so extensive to resolve these things, I am excited to see them happen.

@jukarana I would say it was OOC problematic. It was absolutely toxic.

Who do you mean by the old leadership, out of curiosity?

Siora

thanks for replies. Sounds like Hashan will undergo a great transformation in the coming months. 
Curious to know if there will ever be a requirement after the Renaissance for a Hashani to have to be in a house, like Mhaldor, Targossas, Eleusis.

Vayne

Siora said:

thanks for replies. Sounds like Hashan will undergo a great transformation in the coming months. 
Curious to know if there will ever be a requirement after the Renaissance for a Hashani to have to be in a house, like Mhaldor, Targossas, Eleusis.

Can't say for sure, but I doubt it will be required to join a house, but it will likely be much more emphasized and encouraged after the Renaissance.

Kaie

@vayne you know from the small icon it kind of looks like harry potter is talking to me. Also, I"m talking about paranoid leadership that sends 8 man gank squads after people who have no idea they are even in a fight, discourage roleplay between people they dislike, place expensive bounties on their heads with little to no reason, extort credits from enemies after alienating them, or you know.. reward cowardly beheadings on already dead players solely to instigate and prevent resurrection with city favors.  I'm not going to put anyone in the spotlight, but leaders that do things like that tend to leave a stigma on an org.

Sorry for the late response, I've been kind of busy lately.

Achimrst

Kaie said:

@vayne you know from the small icon it kind of looks like harry potter is talking to me. Also, I"m talking about paranoid leadership that sends 8 man gank squads after people who have no idea they are even in a fight, discourage roleplay between people they dislike, place expensive bounties on their heads with little to no reason, extort credits from enemies after alienating them, or you know.. reward cowardly beheadings on already dead players solely to instigate and prevent resurrection with city favors.  I'm not going to put anyone in the spotlight, but leaders that do things like that tend to leave a stigma on an org.

Sorry for the late response, I've been kind of busy lately.

Bad @Kaie, go lay down!