The Quisalis/Ivory Marks

Synbios

Silas said:

It'd be nice if you had to go to the Mark offices to take out a contract on someone. Much better flavour than just standing wherever and hitting an imaginary command to transmit your contract instantaneously to the orgs.

Clearly everyone has a portable Mark-signal to call the Marks skulking about in the Mark-Cave.

NANANANANANANANANA MARKMAN!

Seftin

Could even have a cool entity that delivers teh contrat to you at the least - or even have a board in every city and delos/new thera for mark contracts

Seftin

Could make it so that city contrats get posted in the city - if you are a rogue and not enemied anywhere you could pick up contracts for any city, if you were enemied can't get the contract, if you are a mark or rogue for that city, you can go collect the contracts etc

Prythe

@ Santar said: 1. Change the system back to the old way where people get to pick their Mark. However, flaws have been voiced about this system as well. This would be better than the status quo, however, it would be ideal to find a way to further fix the current system. 

Here is my problem with that - and maybe this changed before the new system came in - but many years ago (real life years) I tried to hire on somebody whose faction, and was personally, hostile to Eleusis....

I approached several Marks of Eleusis and each time the answer was, "Sorry, but we have a mutual no kill policy."

Did that problem disappear? If so, how? If not, how would that be addressed when reverting to the old system?

(And does that still exist - where Marks are there more for easy XP and less for going after people they would rather not fight/kill?)

Tecton

There's some really interesting ideas here, I can definitely see some of these making it into the game when we make some adjustments to the system in the near future.

Caladbolg

To be fair, I think alot of the problem with the "That mark can't complete contracts" thing isn't always just as simple as the mark sucks at combat as it's something along the lines of.

Have you guys ever tried to complete some of these Contracts? For instance a certain serpent I will not name, if I ask for a duel I get laughed at. If I attack them they evade away before I can get a second or third hit off. and more often than not come back with half a city to fight you with.

I've also had alot of problems in the past of that I ask for a duel get laughed at, find them jump them boom city earrings in and I tear my hair out as they truename me for the kill.

Achaean's mark problem seems less to me that marks can't get Contracts done and more that if certain people don't want to fight you. Your chances of getting that contract done are alot slimmer.

Oh and for the record snipe is one of the easiest ways to complete contracts. Your not even in any real danger, got three out of my last four contracts completed with shooting a lupines, and the other cleaving

Atalkez

Make contracts bypass veil/gem please. Had a couple of contracts expire because I could literally never find them on my own. Frustrating 

Klendathu

Atalkez said:

Make contracts bypass veil/gem please. Had a couple of contracts expire because I could literally never find them on my own. Frustrating 

Making contracts bypass veil and gem pretty much negates their entire reason for existing.

Atalkez

I disagree. You'd still have all functionality of them except for the 1 assassin that is supposed to be hunting you. Realistically, if someone hires on you for whatever reason, you should have to defend yourself at some point. Veil/gem/ship hiding makes you invulnerable to the repercussions of your actions.

Pointless to be a Mark if you have to have 3000c or whatever in artifacts just to find your contracts.

Klendathu

Atalkez said:

I disagree. You'd still have all functionality of them except for the 1 assassin that is supposed to be hunting you. Realistically, if someone hires on you for whatever reason, you should have to defend yourself at some point. Veil/gem/ship hiding makes you invulnerable to the repercussions of your actions.

Pointless to be a Mark if you have to have 3000c or whatever in artifacts just to find your contracts.

So i have a veil and a gem. Person X and Person Y do not. Person X has a contract on me. Person Y just wants to gank me. Person Y knows Person X has a contract, asks Person X to locate me, then proceeds to gank. Fair? No.

Atalkez

Klendathu said:

Atalkez said:

I disagree. You'd still have all functionality of them except for the 1 assassin that is supposed to be hunting you. Realistically, if someone hires on you for whatever reason, you should have to defend yourself at some point. Veil/gem/ship hiding makes you invulnerable to the repercussions of your actions.

Pointless to be a Mark if you have to have 3000c or whatever in artifacts just to find your contracts.

So i have a veil and a gem. Person X and Person Y do not. Person X has a contract on me. Person Y just wants to gank me. Person Y knows Person X has a contract, asks Person X to locate me, then proceeds to gank. Fair? No.

Can do that now with someone who has a veil.

Move 1 room, they can't find you again without asking. Back to square 1. Non issue, imo

Nim

Person Z has a veil, so instead of two people, three people come to gank you. Except it's okay because they paid their six hundred dollar fee to do so, and to announce your location anytime and anywhere they want.

Jovolo

Can't see joining the Mark giving you the ability to negate an artefact worth hundreds of dollars of which only has a counter that is worth hundreds of dollars. 

Greys

But again, that often is why people hire a mark: because they cannot get back at the person as the person has a veil. It would add insult to injury where the mark they hired could do nothing about it.
@Jovolo Its only negating it for the target. Assuming the contract is legit then they did something to piss someone off and its ok for them to pay to avoid repercussions? 

Atalkez

So @Jovolo you're saying the requisite to be a decent Mark is spending $600-$800 on artifacts that only serve to find/hide people?

Yeah the pay to not suck model is definitely not something that we should defend or perpetuate, imo.

Nim

Alternative solutions: 1) marks can't be hired unless they are as veiled as their target, 2) mark levels are lowered for contract selection when they're less veiled, with the assumption that high tier marks could get past it (they can) but scrubs could not (I can't ), 3) require marks to buy veils

Kafziel

Nim said:

1) marks can't be hired unless they are as veiled as their target

Profit immune to contracts

Hasar

Why is it hard to get a friend with a veil to help you find the target.

Jovolo

Atalkez said:

So @Jovolo you're saying the requisite to be a decent Mark is spending $600-$800 on artifacts that only serve to find/hide people?

Yeah the pay to not suck model is definitely not something that we should defend or perpetuate, imo.

The pay wall is already there, it's just unfair on those who buy into it to negate it for one of its prime uses - avoiding being hunted by those who don't have one. I'm not saying the requisite to be a decent mark is to buy a veil, I'm saying the requisite to bypassing veil is to buy a veil (or find a friend who already has a veil. An alternative bypass that you already mentioned earlier in the thread). 

Nim

Kafziel said:

Nim said:

1) marks can't be hired unless they are as veiled as their target

Profit immune to contracts

He deserves something after the tragic loss of his true love, robbing people blind, or so I hear.

Santar

Can you take the pointless veil derailment elsewhere please? It has literally no relevance to this thread. Create your own thread if you want to whine about veils.

Amranu

I agree, delete veil

Jacen

Its very relevant to the discussion.  

Atalkez

I thought this was a discussion about issues we notice with the system as it stands and potential fixes, no?

Santar

No, the purpose of this thread isn't to bend combat and other mechanics to allow people that aren't suitable Marks to become suitable Marks.

The purpose of this thread is to create a system that flags capable marks appropriately.

Nim

@Santar: Consider that the entire reason for the original change was to make it easier to be a mark. Perhaps the admins no longer care about that direction, but ignoring it when giving feedback is unproductive.

People are saying veils are a huge problem because an unveiled person might hire on a veiled target simply because they can't find them. This is a problem because an unveiled mark without sufficient contacts may run into the same issue, grant no benefit, and waste the customer's money. You do not have to agree to some veil nerf/deletion, but if you want to flag marks by their capabilities, being able to find the target is kind of an important one.

Jarrod

That's exactly the point.

The best Marks will be able to find their target, either through owning a veil, knowing someone with a veil, or using other methods to find the person. Part of being the 'best' is being able to find people regardless of what defensive arties/skills they might have.

Eld

Nim said:

@Santar: Consider that the entire reason for the original change was to make it easier to be a mark. Perhaps the admins no longer care about that direction, but ignoring it when giving feedback is unproductive.

Was it? My recollection of the discussion around it is a bit hazy at this point, but as I recall, it was more to do with normalizing accessibility of Marks by potential hirers across factions. I don't remember anything about making it easier to be a mark, except insofar as it made it easier for some people to get contracts, which seems to be more a side effect than a central goal.

Jovolo

The idea wasn't to make it easier to be a Mark, it was to make Marks more effective (anonymity and accessibility). 

Aedin

Having marks being able to cut through veils just cause of a contract isn't a bad idea in thought... However there is generally always someone within the realms who wouldn't mind helping you track them down. Personally I think this would fall under the category of being resourceful which as a mark you should be anyways. So I don't think that will ever happen and if it did I could potentially see this being abused some how ..