Movement reduction based on Terrain

Ernam

So I've been playing a lot of Civ 5 lately, and it occurred to me to drag up the idea of Terrain impacting movement, again.

I think it would make things far more immersive, interesting, and dynamic, if things like hills, mountains, forests, jungles, and so on, impacted movement speed, and/or if roads allowed for slightly faster travel.

This has been mentioned in the past, but I have a suggestion that makes it somewhat better than simply granting or penalizing moves (although this could be part of it).

The core concept is adjusting the "hasty" timer based on the terrain modifiers of the room you enter.  Thus, you can still only move twice at a time, but you'd be able to move sooner on a road, or significantly slower, through jungle or mountains, etc.

Suggestion:  ("movement time" is the amount of time until you can move again without getting the "hasty message")

Roads: -25% movement time, and ignore forest, desert, and water terrain modifiers.

Forest: +20% movement time
Marsh/Swamp: +20%
Hills/Desert: +20%
Water: +33%
Jungle: +33% (halved if a road is built)
Mountains: +50% (halved if a road is built).  Alternatively, have movement through mountains/jungles expend movement (like Dash) unless on a road.

A config option could be easily added to show when this delay takes place (which would help significantly in adjusting mapper/autowalking routes).


This would make construction/maintenance of roads far more interesting and important, and would make travel and combat far more immersive and dynamic.  The system would also be pretty simple to implement, albeit would require some minor adjustments to the game engine's movement timer system.

Jeslyn

I think this is an interesting idea. I've noticed that when traveling in the wilderness (which I don't do often... because all of the crazies are there), that there are some different movement reductions at play. Such as in the mountains... which are a pain in the ass to walk through.

Jacen

I think terrain-based influences are better left to be RP'd by the 5% of players that might enjoy such a thing. Slowly exploring an area would be fun to do and RP out with a few friends, but this is basically just applying movement nerfs for the hell of it.

Kinda like river currents...

Addama

This would be interesting any time you're not actually trying to get somewhere.

Ernam

Roads would make it faster to travel, overall, and various Survival or class skills could reduce, negate, or even improve various terrain travel speeds.  Sentinels, for example, might get a 25% increase in travel through forest and jungle environments, and Dwarves might ignore hill/mountain terrain.

The idea isn't to slow down travel in general, it's simply to create a spectrum of travel speed instead of a constant 2 moves per second.  You could easily increase travel speed overall, but add delays to various terrain types, which would make caring about terrain and geography actually slightly important.

Worth mentioning that a 10% or 25% increase isn't that big of a deal.  You're talking about 1.1 seconds to move twice instead of 1.0 seconds.  It's not enough to dramatically change anything but it's enough to make them relevant.

Bluef

Please, no. This idea would not make the game anymore interesting but it would make it volumes more annoying. 

Edit: I want to acknowledge that idea comes from you having a playing experience elsewhere and genuinely wanting to add something you enjoy in Achaea. I hope I didn't sound like I was discounting your opinion of that in any way.

Jonathin

Ernam said:

I think it would make things far more immersive, interesting, and dynamic, if things like hills, mountains, forests, jungles, and so on, impacted movement speed, and/or if roads allowed for slightly faster travel.

I cannot begin to share the depth of my loathing of walking let alone the level of hell I would be in if movement restrictions were expanded. In fact, it would pretty much be the nail in the coffin for my continued playing.

Antonius

In order for it to be meaningful and make different types of terrain relevant, the difference in movement speed would have to be noticeable. If it's noticeable, people are going to hate it and it's going to make the game objectively worse. If it's not noticeable, it won't change anything, and by extension won't make different types of terrain relevant and would be a total waste of time.

Xith

Would be good for a MUD that favored realism to the degree that you couldn't sprint from one edge of the continent to the other in 10 Achaean minutes. 
But this. IS. ACHAEA! *kicks into pit*

EDIT: To be clear, really like the idea, just not for this MUD.

Aegoth

Lusternia did this with their weather system. Worst fucking idea ever. The ultimate king of bad ideas. Never ever ever implement movement speed penalties

Synbios

@Aegoth: Don't forget Midkemia, where people have tiny baby endurance, and travelling outside of cities on foot is a major drain on endurance if you're not mounted(oh, and the mount also has its own endurance value that goes down when you use it to travel).

Klendathu

There is a fine balance to be had between realism and fun. Not sure which way this would tip the balance, but as it would be seen by most people as a "nerf", it would probably detract from fun.

Sena

It doesn't have to be a nerf at all. The slowest terrain could be equal to what we have now, while other terrain is faster.

Jovolo

Sena said:

It doesn't have to be a nerf at all. The slowest terrain could be equal to what we have now, while other terrain is faster.

This is a very valid, good point. Though Antonius' still applies. If we then make the current travel speed the slowest terrain speed, how fast do we make the fastest? It's a good idea, but I'm not sure if the effort put into implementing it is worth the impact it would have.

I could see a case being made for the idea inside cities and on certain battlegrounds. If we had a battleground ala nishnatoba with varying terrains. it could be pretty fun.

Riashain

Daeir said:

The staggering number of people who choose to hit the disagree button and not actually contribute to the topic at hand is depressing. 

I like little stuff like this that adds a bit more depth and realism into the game, even if they do pose opportunities for annoyance.

As one them, I see no reason to expound on why I feel it's a bad idea. I disagree. Don't want it. Not sure why a treatise is required to express said disagreement.

Ernam

If nothing else, I don't see why roads couldn't increase movement speed.  Perhaps 1 extra movement per "hasty" if all of your moves were on a road.

Just because something might sometimes be annoying doesn't make it "bad".  Running out of herbs is annoying.  Not having every artefact in the game is annoying.  Being dead is annoying.  Encouraging avoidance of "annoying" things, or of actively seeking positive results, in the game (and in life) is called incentivization, and results in a rich, reactive world, instead of a linear, boring one.

It also adds some complexity to the game, ideally at the right amount that it makes things more fun, without being a nuisance.  Achaea is one of the more complex games I've experienced, which is, undoubtably, what I like about it the most.

If I wanted a simple, monochromatic, linear game, I'd play WoW, or various other "simple" MMOs.  I prefer the challenge of having to think of many, many things at once, and developing my skills to the point where I can effectively incorporate all information at hand into a competent strategy.  So far, game geography has been virtually ignorable, with the exception of indoor/outdoor vs jesters/occies, and harvesting.  I see absolutely no reason in a game where massive amounts of detail that already exists, that it should be utterly pointless, and only serve as a backdrop for optional roleplay.  If your character is walking through a mountainous jungle, it should be slower than traveling on a flat highway.  Saying otherwise, at risk of sounding like a jerk, is pretty much just laziness speaking.

Kresslack

Ernam said:

If your character is walking through a mountainous jungle, it should be slower than traveling on a flat highway.

It already is slower walking over mountains, and tundra. So who the hell is going to be contracted to build a goddamn highway out to Morindar and Istarion? The Mhuns?

Austere

Kresslack said:

Ernam said:

If your character is walking through a mountainous jungle, it should be slower than traveling on a flat highway.

It already is slower walking over mountains, and tundra. So who the hell is going to be contracted to build a goddamn highway out to Morindar and Istarion? The Mhuns?

Who the hell walks through wilderness? Galloping or flying, dude. 

Kresslack

Austere said:

Kresslack said:

Ernam said:

If your character is walking through a mountainous jungle, it should be slower than traveling on a flat highway.

It already is slower walking over mountains, and tundra. So who the hell is going to be contracted to build a goddamn highway out to Morindar and Istarion? The Mhuns?

Who the hell walks through wilderness? Galloping or flying, dude. 

Dash/Fly. This isn't my first expedition.

Bluef

Kresslack said:

Ernam said:

If your character is walking through a mountainous jungle, it should be slower than traveling on a flat highway.

It already is slower walking over mountains, and tundra. So who the hell is going to be contracted to build a goddamn highway out to Morindar and Istarion? The Mhuns?

Yes, and then @Xith and the GOM are WINNING! I bet y'all would stop hunting Moghedu then!  

Xith

We're already bi-winning.

Nim

Bluef said:

Kresslack said:

Ernam said:

If your character is walking through a mountainous jungle, it should be slower than traveling on a flat highway.

It already is slower walking over mountains, and tundra. So who the hell is going to be contracted to build a goddamn highway out to Morindar and Istarion? The Mhuns?

Yes, and then @Xith and the GOM are WINNING! I bet y'all would stop hunting Moghedu then!  

You'd think that, but no, those mhuns will be hunted while they're literally in the middle of construction. And not just by Mhaldor to be jerks, even Cyrenians and Targossans will be in on it for the delicious EXP and money buffet.

Aalm

I didn't read everything before so I hope no one gets mad at me if I am repeating something.

This idea is a really good idea in theory but I think in practice it would lead to some problems. The first is I think it might make Achaea more frustrating to true newbies by delaying movement and making it harder to run away from monsters, and I vividly remember being one and being a true newbie was brutal. Anything that drives away new blood probably is not good, and I think this might be in that category.

A similar problem is with combat for advanced players -- I think a lot of people get frustrated when their controls lock/don't respond for some reason. Being killed because you got jumped in a mountain range and couldn't escape fast enough will make people angry. Especially if the opponents had movement penalties nullified due to arties and you didn't.

Then moving into that, you have the artie factor... I would guess if this was implemented people could dodge the penalties by using winged steeds that are Collared and Rings of Flying. Or, something like Landstrider Boots, which would eliminate the delays. So you get the resentment factor as non-artied people get angry because they have movement delays where the artied crowd does not.

A lesser but still valid problem is that assembling for something important might be impacted. Something like a ritual to a God or Goddess probably wouldn't be because typically you'd have powerful players using stuff like Deliverance to help people come there, or simply the God or Goddess summons the stragglers. But there might be times when people don't have access to that, and having to wait an extra 20-40 minutes because the person is in the boondocks on Meropis and slowly dragging back... yeah.

Again, I am not saying the idea is shit because it adds a lot of realism. It just worries me that this sort of realism will hinder player fun rather than add to it. Achaea is already a very complex game with a steep learning curve. Hindering mobility might therefore not be a step in the right direction.

Antonius

Nim said:

Bluef said:

Kresslack said:

Ernam said:

If your character is walking through a mountainous jungle, it should be slower than traveling on a flat highway.

It already is slower walking over mountains, and tundra. So who the hell is going to be contracted to build a goddamn highway out to Morindar and Istarion? The Mhuns?

Yes, and then @Xith and the GOM are WINNING! I bet y'all would stop hunting Moghedu then!  

You'd think that, but no, those mhuns will be hunted while they're literally in the middle of construction. And not just by Mhaldor to be jerks, even Cyrenians and Targossans will be in on it for the delicious EXP and money buffet.

Unless things have changed (and it's not like I pay attention), the majority of Moghedu is off limits for Targossas to hunt; that would apply equally to Mhun outside of Moghedu working on new roads. The exception is the Mhunna (who holds a karma item) and those who actively defend him (i.e. those in the room with him).

That's all irrelevant, anyway, clearly we'd bring back the Church to build the new highways, and they'd probably contract the dwarves to do the actual work.

Ernam

@Addama‌

Sena said:

It doesn't have to be a nerf at all. The slowest terrain could be equal to what we have now, while other terrain is faster.

Addama

Ernam said:

@Addama‌

Sena said:

It doesn't have to be a nerf at all. The slowest terrain could be equal to what we have now, while other terrain is faster.

I was responding to your OP, which pretty clearly called for a nerf to all non-road terrain.

Bluef

I don't really see how this would end up adding realism to the game. It isn't as though a slew of new players start characters in Achaea regularly. A handful here and there, sure. But by in large we're a niche game - like most IRE games - where people who are familiar with MUDs, familiar with IRE MUDs, and familiar with Achaea itself, create new characters to experience new perspectives or roleplay with friends. With that in mind, all this revised idea does is speed up travel in most zones. Travel is already pretty fast using WALK TO or the Mudlet mapper, so....I don't get it. It may add a layer of realism but it'd be a pretty paper thin one.

Sarapis

Bluef said:

It isn't as though a slew of new players start characters in Achaea regularly. 

That's not actually true. Lots of new people start new characters in Achaea. The problem is they don't tend to stick around very long.

Syri

My two cents:

Movement reduction via terrain (other than rubble and other factors that already make movement crappy) would be interesting to have, but would probably end up being a pain in the figurative butt rather than engaging (hello, rivers).

Now, a movement speed BUFF to certain terrains (like the aforementioned roads) would be nice. And if the current speed were to be the slowest (or at least relatively slowest) speed then I would support the idea.

In short - Nice idea, but implementation would be nothing more than a pain if not done right.

Valaria

you know.... flying is somewhat slow than galloping in achaea.

according to wikia - horse's max achieved speed is at 43.97 and the airspeed for a golden eagle is 200 mph. Of course, there is no logic in achaea, however, i want get somewhere faster in air in the wilderness.

Amarillys

Valaria said:

you know.... flying is somewhat slow than galloping in achaea.

according to wikia - horse's max achieved speed is at 43.97 and the airspeed for a golden eagle is 200 mph. Of course, there is no logic in achaea, however, i want get somewhere faster in air in the wilderness.

Golden Eagles = Aerodynamic birds of prey full of grace.

Atavians = Awkward bastards with arms and legs and a body and oh gods how are you even flying?