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Cursed/Blessed Items

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  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,999 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You act like you're the only person who plays Shaman and RP's it. This doesn't take RP away from Shamans, it gives them more. Considering there are people who have been Shaman and RP'd that role for years endorsing that this would fit in fine with Shamans, I don't see what the issue is, and the only point you can make is because you think it would ruin your RP. Offer some alternatives and examples of -why- they would be better.

    I already said there is potential for Shamans to both imbue and remove curses and blessings from items using Curses and Spiritlore, as well as Priests have the same dual capability via Spiritualism and Healing.


  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kresslack said:
    You act like you're the only person who plays Shaman and RP's it. This doesn't take RP away from Shamans, it gives them more. Considering there are people who have been Shaman and RP'd that role for years endorsing that this would fit in fine with Shamans, I don't see what the issue is, and the only point you can make is because you think it would ruin your RP. Offer some alternatives and examples of -why- they would be better.

    I already said there is potential for Shamans to both imbue and remove curses and blessings from items using Curses and Spiritlore, as well as Priests have the same dual capability via Spiritualism and Healing.
    I thought I made it very clearly why I thought that, it would give priests a reason to just say: Shaman curse items they are evil and therefore against creation kill them, kill them all. SOME shaman may like that RP but if Tecton and Makarios wanted to fictionalize shaman I think they would have done that already. I have given many examples of how it could be better!

    Reasons I think Apostates are better fitted:

    1. Cursing/Defiling and object would give them a visible suffering RP additive.

    2. Giving shaman the option to Curse an item but not the exclusivity of Blessing the item would be a way of pseudo-factionalizing  them. While Apostates are already highly considered evil by priests because of IC, and RP , viewpoints designed into the game for conflict. What I mean by this is, Good vs Evil.

    3. Evileyes are a form of cursing someone by looking at them. It is literally almost exactly the same ability only they can do it with both eyes hence, at the same time. While a Shaman uses their fingers. As shown by it's description.

    Evileye is a skill that is perhaps related to the Curses skill used by the
    Shamans, albeit perhaps less powerful. With it, one may make eye contact with
    an opponent and give them the 'evil eye', imposing a wide variety of
    afflictions upon the opponent. At the high end of the ability, one learns the
    craft of giving multiple afflictions simultaneously.


    Reasons I think Enchanting would be a better alternative:

    1. Enchanting destroys items, making it randomly curse or bless instead of being destroyed could be a great alternative offering a purely random reaction to the enchanting process. Which I'm told it already has.

    2. I would like to think enchanting an item and something bad or good happening would add a dynamic to the RP that wouldn't inherently give the process a pseudo-factionalizing aspect.

    3. Clearly Magi/Enchanting has some sort of RP connection to afflictions, or curses, as shown by the Ring of Pestilence.

    4. It would probably be less frustrating of a process for an enchanting Magi to at least get something rather then lose an item completely, or get nothing, from enchanting.


  • KaitaliKaitali Member Posts: 65 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    This already exists in the game more or less, the Divine can and have done this before. An example is a Divine cursed item which the victim is unable to remove for the duration of the curse. As far as I know, it is incredibly rare and it has, in my opinion, massive amounts of RP potential. Giving a similar (toned down, even) power to us mere mortals to me would dampen the significance of it when used on the rare occasion by the Divine. That is my only real issue. On that note, @Sartan should totally curse the items in his temple. *innocent*
    ImrienAchimrstBluefElphaba
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,999 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kaitali said:
    This already exists in the game more or less, the Divine can and have done this before. An example is a Divine cursed item which the victim is unable to remove for the duration of the curse. As far as I know, it is incredibly rare and it has, in my opinion, massive amounts of RP potential. Giving a similar (toned down, even) power to us mere mortals to me would dampen the significance of it when used on the rare occasion by the Divine. That is my only real issue. On that note, @Sartan should totally curse the items in his temple. *innocent*
    Not to say it's never happened, but I've been playing since 2008 and I've never seen nor heard of anything like this. That being the case, I don't think it would be such a terrible thing.


    Nim
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,561 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah, or like a cursed scroll of genocide will instead spawn monsters.
    Having played Nethack, I don't see why having your own summonable and farmable hordes of monsters is a bad idea.

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kresslack said:
    Not to say it's never happened, but I've been playing since 2008 and I've never seen nor heard of anything like this. That being the case, I don't think it would be such a terrible thing.
    I can think of a few examples. Katia was given a barbed mask that she couldn't remove (don't remember the details), Tenebrus was given very sparkly and un-stealthy robes by Tarah that couldn't be removed. There were some others that I remember even more vaguely.
    AchimrstBluefAustere
  • KaitaliKaitali Member Posts: 65 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Kresslack said:
    Kaitali said:
    This already exists in the game more or less, the Divine can and have done this before. An example is a Divine cursed item which the victim is unable to remove for the duration of the curse. As far as I know, it is incredibly rare and it has, in my opinion, massive amounts of RP potential. Giving a similar (toned down, even) power to us mere mortals to me would dampen the significance of it when used on the rare occasion by the Divine. That is my only real issue. On that note, @Sartan should totally curse the items in his temple. *innocent*
    Not to say it's never happened, but I've been playing since 2008 and I've never seen nor heard of anything like this. That being the case, I don't think it would be such a terrible thing.
    As @Sena said, Tenebrus is one example I've heard of before, but it has also happened at least twice for sure in Kait's (comparatively short) lifetime, once which she got to be a part of. The fact that it is so rare is what makes it so special and memorable, though, which is why I wouldn't want that to be diminished.
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Achimrst said:

    To me it sounds like enchantment would work great with it, instead of destroying the item it can be cursed or blessed randomly and make it a completely random fun thing on an item that would likely just be destroyed in the enchanting  process. Enchantment is also clearly not "precise" if it destroys items sometimes and probably makes the Magi a bit miffed if it destroys something they actually wanted enchanted, not that I hear them whining about it. 

    I will never understand why people try to give Shaman a semi-factionalizing ability when they don't even play the class or engage in it's RP if they do... To me making shaman only capable of cursing an item is almost like fictionalizing them against the light/priests and giving priests/Targossas, and possibly Cyrene,  a reason to attack and enemy them.

    If you want to go full out on the Spirits aspect of it, an RP I actually do IG. Spirits bless, so they are clearly able to bless things and make harmful effects so why make priests the only ones to undo the curse?

    If a shaman can curse an item, they should clearly through the power of the spirits be capable of undoing it, it just seems imbalanced from a Shaman RP point of view to only make them capable of cursing an item because the class uses curses so they should make items to do the same thing. Completely taking away from the RP that some of us Shaman actually do in which we speak about curses as a way to defend ourselves because spirits are, mostly, passive.
    While I agree with Achimrst about the unnecessary fictionalization of shamans in the past as a "dark" or "evil" class, I don't necessarily see this as being another instance of that or something that could lead to furthering those ideas. If players, including Gods, want to hold those incorrect ideas in the face of a long roleplayed class history of neutrality, and despite best efforts on the part of players to demonstrate that's not the case through actual actions, then there's not a lot that can be done about it. 

    Although I'm not sure that any other class in the history of Sapience has had to try to exist under such unsubstantiated xenophobic (for the lack of a better word to characterize class prejudice) conditions, it is what it is. 

    If this blessing/curse ability ever presented itself IC, I think it would make sense for priests to gain the capacity to bless items, for apostates to gain the ability to curse items, and for shamans to be able to do both. That way, the long-held neutrality of the class is maintained.

    Anyone who could curse, could remove blessings. Anyone who could bless, could remove curses. Again, shamans would be able to do both. In this way, they would continue to be what they already are: A neutral class that has the potential to be accepted realm-wide.
    Achimrst
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Don't really see how letting Shaman curse items makes them any more factional than


    8.1.16 The SHAMAN CLASS

    (See also: HELP CURSES, HELP VODUN, HELP SPIRITLORE, HELP 8, HELP CLASS)

    The enigmatic ritualists called Shamans hail from the wintry northernlands of Hashan. The class was born in 288 A.F. of the modern age, when Firefox Sly opened the guild of Shamans to the world. Drawing their strength from the darker side of mysticism, the class of Shamans is not inherently aligned with any ethos. However, they tend to draw those who embrace the secrets of the shadows more readily than the light. Hence, their membership is mostly contained within their historical home of Hashan with a few residing in Ashtan and Mhaldor, but rarely in Cyrene, Eleusis, or Targossas.

    Fiercely spiritual and reclusive, Shamans practice the art of Curses, through which they can hex their opponents with a number of debilitating afflictions. They are formidable foes even from afar, for they can craft Vodun dolls and manipulate others, breaking limbs, causing bleeding, paralysing, even leech experience from a distance. A Shaman is a slippery opponent in combat, and once one has gained a full likeness of you, extremely difficult to overcome.

    Forsaking their ties to the earthen magics, Shamans embrace the power of Spiritlore, allowing them to seek out and bind long-lost spirits into their body. These spirits grant a multitude of new powers, as well as augment their existing abilities in Vodun and Curses.

    The skills of a Shaman are Vodun, Curses, and Spiritlore. A fledgling Shaman gains Spiritlore and Curses, while Vodun is gained upon embracing class.

    (See also: HELP CURSES, HELP VODUN, HELP SPIRITLORE, HELP 8, HELP CLASS)


    this does. And screw spoiler tags.
    image
    Bluef
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Kresslack said:
    Kaitali said:
    This already exists in the game more or less, the Divine can and have done this before. An example is a Divine cursed item which the victim is unable to remove for the duration of the curse. As far as I know, it is incredibly rare and it has, in my opinion, massive amounts of RP potential. Giving a similar (toned down, even) power to us mere mortals to me would dampen the significance of it when used on the rare occasion by the Divine. That is my only real issue. On that note, @Sartan should totally curse the items in his temple. *innocent*
    Not to say it's never happened, but I've been playing since 2008 and I've never seen nor heard of anything like this. That being the case, I don't think it would be such a terrible thing.
    Tenebrus' robes and Katia's mask come to mind as well known examples, yes. But I'm sure there have been others via lesser known events as well. Even Bluef hold an item blessed by Lady Valnurana that was used to stop the curse that the Spirit Walker's patron placed on her, for example. 

    I don't think that giving mortal players the ability to curse/bless items would in any way dampen the significance of these past happenings. Divine are capable of far more powerful instances of such abilities and I think that's widely understood.

    It  makes perfect sense from a roleplay standpoint that priests, apostates, and shamans - the clerical type classes - would be capable of some small amount of conjuring of their own. I think the way these items are cursed/blessed needs to be very much roleplay-motivated and not necessarily interfere with combat though, and that is a delicate balance to manage. 

    For example, I remember a few years ago when the talk of getting rid of Runelore first came up and everyone wanted a VODUN SECRET ability added so we could give our targets cursed items that would mess with them during combat. I think it was agreed then that that could become a bit of a problem. 
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,999 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kaitali said:
    Kresslack said:
    Kaitali said:
    This already exists in the game more or less, the Divine can and have done this before. An example is a Divine cursed item which the victim is unable to remove for the duration of the curse. As far as I know, it is incredibly rare and it has, in my opinion, massive amounts of RP potential. Giving a similar (toned down, even) power to us mere mortals to me would dampen the significance of it when used on the rare occasion by the Divine. That is my only real issue. On that note, @Sartan should totally curse the items in his temple. *innocent*
    Not to say it's never happened, but I've been playing since 2008 and I've never seen nor heard of anything like this. That being the case, I don't think it would be such a terrible thing.
    As @Sena said, Tenebrus is one example I've heard of before, but it has also happened at least twice for sure in Kait's (comparatively short) lifetime, once which she got to be a part of. The fact that it is so rare is what makes it so special and memorable, though, which is why I wouldn't want that to be diminished.
    Yes, but those sound like pretty significant items on a grander scale. I hardly think something like this will diminish the value of such a rare instance as when the divine produce a cursed item.


    Bluef
  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 647 @ - Epic Achaean
    How about changing relics to have a chance to be "cursed", doing the opposite of what they normally do? Example: EQ gem makes EQ recovery slower, Lifegiver will strip starbust at random, Gauntlet of the Waves fires off at random times. 

    It'd be pretty curse-like because you'd have to die to get rid of it, and in doing so pass the curse on to someone else. Granted, I suppose people could just heartstop, but it'd be interesting to trick an enemy into getting a cursed golden braid and watch their gold drops halve!
    image
    ShirszaeExelethrilKresslackBluefAchimrstYae
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,999 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Alrena said:
    How about changing relics to have a chance to be "cursed", doing the opposite of what they normally do? Example: EQ gem makes EQ recovery slower, Lifegiver will strip starbust at random, Gauntlet of the Waves fires off at random times. 

    It'd be pretty curse-like because you'd have to die to get rid of it, and in doing so pass the curse on to someone else. Granted, I suppose people could just heartstop, but it'd be interesting to trick an enemy into getting a cursed golden braid and watch their gold drops halve!
    That sounds like a separate idea for Relics specifically. In regards to a general ability to curse/bless items, I don't think it should be limited specifically to the combat inclined, and it's not something I would intent to be relative to combat. Rather, just as something flavourful and with a sense of unpredictability to be introduced. There's been a lot of great feedback so far, so I'm still trying to puzzle out I guess a better pitch and examples. I was going to do that last night, alas, an overindulgence of rum and pecan pie left me comatose.


    BluefShirszae
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean


    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    AchimrstAmarillys
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jacen said:
    Don't really see how letting Shaman curse items makes them any more factional than


    8.1.16 The SHAMAN CLASS

    (See also: HELP CURSES, HELP VODUN, HELP SPIRITLORE, HELP 8, HELP CLASS)

    The enigmatic ritualists called Shamans hail from the wintry northernlands of Hashan. The class was born in 288 A.F. of the modern age, when Firefox Sly opened the guild of Shamans to the world. Drawing their strength from the darker side of mysticism, the class of Shamans is not inherently aligned with any ethos. However, they tend to draw those who embrace the secrets of the shadows more readily than the light. Hence, their membership is mostly contained within their historical home of Hashan with a few residing in Ashtan and Mhaldor, but rarely in Cyrene, Eleusis, or Targossas.

    Fiercely spiritual and reclusive, Shamans practice the art of Curses, through which they can hex their opponents with a number of debilitating afflictions. They are formidable foes even from afar, for they can craft Vodun dolls and manipulate others, breaking limbs, causing bleeding, paralysing, even leech experience from a distance. A Shaman is a slippery opponent in combat, and once one has gained a full likeness of you, extremely difficult to overcome.

    Forsaking their ties to the earthen magics, Shamans embrace the power of Spiritlore, allowing them to seek out and bind long-lost spirits into their body. These spirits grant a multitude of new powers, as well as augment their existing abilities in Vodun and Curses.

    The skills of a Shaman are Vodun, Curses, and Spiritlore. A fledgling Shaman gains Spiritlore and Curses, while Vodun is gained upon embracing class.

    (See also: HELP CURSES, HELP VODUN, HELP SPIRITLORE, HELP 8, HELP CLASS)


    this does. And screw spoiler tags.
    This doesn't make them factional it's the history of the class. While there are probably more in Ashtan, Mhaldor and Hashan there are probably even more then that who are rogues. So...what's your point? They aren't aligned to any ethos and the class definitely can easily go "secrets of the shadow" more then light. My character isn't light, he doesn't preach the light or anything he is just a rare shaman of Eleusis I guess :P

    Yet, like Bluef said I like the idea of shaman doing both instead of one, although I don't particularly agree with it :P I still think it would be fun and less malicious as an enchanting effect. To me, shaman just cursing an item is aligning them to be a class that is "Malicious" as they would leave cursed items around for people to find and wear and then run to a priest to fix. The priest then of course being angry about what the shaman did an in turn making them AGAINST the light instead of just neutral to it. I mean if Shaman sat in a safe room breaking your legs with a vodun doll wouldn't you be pissed about it? That is essentially what is happening we give someone a cursed object, lets just say the object breaks your legs for the example, you put it on it breaks your legs and then the shaman runs away giggling or whatever. The person can't take off the object and have to scream out for a priest to help them to "cleanse" or Bless the object. Of course the priest is going to hate shaman! I would hate shaman if they did that shit to me!
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,999 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The overall idea is that it's not By Shamans For Shamans (BSFS?). It's akin to Enchanting in that Shamans would have the ability to produce the item, but it is used by the general public. There's an understanding that the person whom attributed to the items state (whether good or bad) is not held liable for its use or result. they wouldn't even know who cursed/blessed the item, because it would retain the mark of its maker (ideally). I would saying broken legs and what not is a bit over the top, because things like that would inevitably be abused for combat purposes, and enough things already fall into that realm of despair.

    So maybe some things along the following (going to try to show both sides, curses and blessings):

    Ring

    Curse: Hunger - Speeds up the metabolism, ignoring Satiation and causing ravishing hunger over a period of time.
    Blessing: Nourishment - Provides the effects of Satiation consistently for a period of time.

    Sword

    Curse: Reflect - Has a chance to turn an attack against an adventurer, rather than to their target.
    Blessing: Truestrike - Slightly increase the to-hit stat of the weapon.

    Ring

    Curse: Clumsy - Persisting yet randomly activated clumsiness effect while worn. Maybe take a small hit to dexterity.
    Blessing: Graceful - Allows a small, temporary increase to dexterity.

    Those are just some examples that I came up with just now. There's also something to consider in whether or not cursed items can be unworn/unwielded by the person using them, or if they would require assistance from another class or specific  method of handling the item in order to be removed. Of course, being irremovable could in itself, be a curse.



    Tharvis
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,131 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I honestly think the best way to add curse and blessings would be to allow for things that can alter the appearance of objects in ways crafted objects can't usually be described,  and simply allow people to roleplay their effect as they wish. I say this because in theory is very easy to say, " I don't want this to have combat implications," but in practice it is very hard to come up with something that really haves no combat implication whatsoever

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Yeah, if this is about RP, then let's drop the combat applications.  Suggesting that Shamen be able to craft a +1 dex ring is lazy, balance-wise.  It just means everybody getting into combat will have to buy one. 
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
    Bluef
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Jacen said:
    Don't really see how letting Shaman curse items makes them any more factional than


    8.1.16 The SHAMAN CLASS

    (See also: HELP CURSES, HELP VODUN, HELP SPIRITLORE, HELP 8, HELP CLASS)

    The enigmatic ritualists called Shamans hail from the wintry northernlands of Hashan. The class was born in 288 A.F. of the modern age, when Firefox Sly opened the guild of Shamans to the world. Drawing their strength from the darker side of mysticism, the class of Shamans is not inherently aligned with any ethos. However, they tend to draw those who embrace the secrets of the shadows more readily than the light. Hence, their membership is mostly contained within their historical home of Hashan with a few residing in Ashtan and Mhaldor, but rarely in Cyrene, Eleusis, or Targossas.

    Fiercely spiritual and reclusive, Shamans practice the art of Curses, through which they can hex their opponents with a number of debilitating afflictions. They are formidable foes even from afar, for they can craft Vodun dolls and manipulate others, breaking limbs, causing bleeding, paralysing, even leech experience from a distance. A Shaman is a slippery opponent in combat, and once one has gained a full likeness of you, extremely difficult to overcome.

    Forsaking their ties to the earthen magics, Shamans embrace the power of Spiritlore, allowing them to seek out and bind long-lost spirits into their body. These spirits grant a multitude of new powers, as well as augment their existing abilities in Vodun and Curses.

    The skills of a Shaman are Vodun, Curses, and Spiritlore. A fledgling Shaman gains Spiritlore and Curses, while Vodun is gained upon embracing class.

    (See also: HELP CURSES, HELP VODUN, HELP SPIRITLORE, HELP 8, HELP CLASS)


    this does. And screw spoiler tags.
    Anything the shamans once were to Hashan or Darkness in particular was rejected by the Guild's Founder some time ago:
    WYTCHES NEWS #412
    Date: 04/28/2009 at 01:43
    From: Lord Firefox Sly
    To  : Everyone
    Subj: Leaving
    I apologize in advice for the length and breadth of topic
    contained in the following missive; I intend this to be my
    final words to the House, and I would like to cover a number
    of topics on my way out. Yes, by "way out" I mean I will be
    leaving.

    My intent with the Shamans was to take my knowledge of
    guilds and cities, with which I had experience in founding
    or ruling both, and apply it in a manner which would create
    a haven free of the strife present in almost every walk of
    life. I was given a rare opportunity when my memory was
    altered, so I took it happily, knowing few are so blessed.
    To begin with, I violated the commonly held belief of what
    a Guildmaster was. Back then, everything was a Democracy,
    it was the only choice. By uniquely exploiting my position
    as Founder, I made most of the lobbying and pandering for
    votes obsolete. Who could argue they had better plans for
    the Guild than the one who made it? In this I needed to
    avoid the trap of appearing a despot, but yet make rules
    with a small amount of input.

    I then created the Council. By elevating Guild members
    who were not necessarily secretaries, I gave voice to a
    larger mix of opinions. This had been tried in the Druids
    to significant success, so I furthered the experiments
    there. Where they had the equivalent of a secretary vote,
    I intended a House Elder to provide voice to those whose
    opinions were proven, though they might not represent my
    "establishment". It was, by some definitions, my cabinet.
    The goal was to be structured as a family. I wanted every
    member to feel respected and important, no matter their age
    or experience. Secretaries were those with large amounts of
    responsibility or authority, but their opinions were not
    irreproachable. I like to think I largely succeeded. I was
    told I had an air that was a bit scary, but as a whole I
    like to think of the Guild as a success. We were small, but
    very close knit.

    I'm better at making systems and being an administrator
    than anything, which was not what the Guild needed after
    a time. I decided that, instead of pitifully clinging to
    my power and leadership when it was not ideal, I would
    move things to a leader better suited to the next phase;
    growth.

    When I stepped down, I passed the reigns to Grellek. I
    asked that the normal type of democracy be avoided;
    instead just let him assume the role without the insanity
    and backstabbing present in a normal election. The Guild
    agreed to the extent that this became a tradition. There
    was usually an obvious successor, and they merely stepped
    into the role, providing the style of leadership necessary.
    For instance, Grellek was a wonderful father of the Guild,
    but Fhyn had the steel necessary to deal with growing strife
    between the Guild and Hashan. No challenge, no rioting in
    the streets. He merely tipped his hat, agreed it was
    needed, and passed things over.

    That was how it went for a long time. I checked in,
    clarified my intent with certain rules and offered my
    advice; almost exactly what I created the role of Elder
    to do. The major disruption came when we needed to become
    a House.

    I loved the idea. Becoming a House let us change from a
    standard Guild into something much more versatile. Instead
    of being a path to a certain class, we could devote
    everything to our role as Hashan's spiritual side. Rir and
    those of her time did a wonderful job with this.

    Then we changed leadership to Dictatorship, something I
    fought quite vocally. You see, even though we were already
    a Dictatorship in all but name, the axe of Democracy always
    loomed over the head of our leadership. The axe had two
    blades of course, and at any time the balance could be
    upset by a large group of those that didn’t agree with
    how we ran things, but similarly could the whole House
    bring down a leader who sought to force them away from
    the harmony they had.

    You'll note I never mentioned our Patron in this overlong
    tale; this is on purpose. Our Patron did not tell us what
    to do. Ever. They were our spiritual leader, our connection
    to the spirit and Garden. They did not decide who could
    join the guild, or make rules. Of course Their counsel
    was always warmly appreciated, but the role was not that
    of Sartan over Mhaldor, more that of Valnurana over Hashan.
    I have fought tooth and nail to keep this our House, where
    everyone's opinion matters and decisions are not made
    without regard to the real desires of those affected.
    It appears that I now lose. Those with lofty opinions of
    their own opinions and desires would now just throw
    edicts down upon our heads. Worry not! They have 'vision'.
    Xaruthan is but the first casualty, one we could ill afford
    to lose, and expect more who disagree to not be willing
    to wait 27 years for leadership to change to whatever
    crony the Mighty Oligarchs have chosen for Heirs.

    Our Dictatorship hit a bump when it was decided "Spirits"
    would choose each leader, instead of the whole House. Now
    a leader could simply choose a successor by claiming the
    equivalent of Divine Intervention! They merely had to claim
    the Spirits told them, where if they truly listened they'd
    find the Spirits and House should be in agreement.
    Please, do remember that our current administration was not
    even chosen by a Spirit, they merely say it in every post
    they throw down to us.

    It fell and broke its nose when the title of Prophet was
    tossed without thought to the next leader, as the current
    didn't want it.

    It cried out, rising to its feet when we changed to an
    Oligarchy, to attempt to bring a larger number of leaders
    to keep one another in check. Oligarchy could possess
    checks and balances, perhaps respond better to the will
    of the people.

    Apollyon made sure this would not work by giving the
    choice of his compatriots to the one we disagreed with
    in the first place. Instead of one leader we were unsure
    of, we now have one failed leader and a child, with the
    chooser himself being chosen by the leader who failed.
    Huzzah, we fell again.

    Our House has not risen once more. Harmonia, Payne, Salvar,
    you are blights on this House. You claim change? Fine! I
    am always a fan of furthering the House to betterment. But
    you take no caution, heed no council. You merely change
    and alter as you will, arguing for our own good. The House
    now smells of cronyism, lies, and a blind populace. Don't
    mind me, though. Given time you will replace the entire
    House membership with your friends who will benefit from
    your rule.

    I made a mistake with the Council. It provided a forum with
    privacy to debate things like Ordos, but now it provides a
    forum where every major decision can happen over the masses.
    We ally to Houses opposed to our very core, but worry not!
    We changed the Patron to that of Evil, but He doesn't seek
    to influence us in that direction!

    A quick note about the Charter soon to be forced down our
    throats: Ignore its length, reading it is a waste of time.
    It is a confused mix between a charter, a constitution and
    a law. Basically it says "Oligarchs do whatever they want,
    and the Patron can tell us what to do". There, I saved you
    the effort of reading it.

    I also should endeavor to not appear to be quitting in
    anger over the actions of three fools; it does not befit
    my station to seem like I am leaving for not getting my
    way. Know that I am no petulant child, nor some form of
    revolutionary. I leave this House now because I see no
    recourse. Short of hoping that in some 54 years we get
    a new, benevolent leadership, I do not believe there is
    any way to right the House. Maya Herself has informed me
    that I have no way to argue with a Dictator or Oligarch,
    so, I leave. I recommend any discontents to leave.
    Spiritwalkers, you have lost your soul. Your ritualists
    are pathetic and self serving, only holding rituals to
    prove cyclical logic or make themselves appear important.
    The largest percentage of the voting base is now comprised
    of those let into the House and artificially ranked by
    constant favoring. Harmonia has charged an entire group
    previous to her with Treason, removing the largest quantity
    of members I have ever seen punished, in any guild.
    Anyone who wishes to leave, do so. You will not be breaking
    your Oath, because your Oath was to a House previous to this
    insanity. The leaders above you are not of your choosing,
    and they change the House away from what you vowed to protect
    and serve. I, your Founder, declare you free of the Oath I
    wrote with my own hand.

    I have always despised posting. The words come back to
    haunt you over such long reaches of time that one could
    fear to never escape them. So, I will be very careful in
    what I choose to have haunt me now.

    I apologize for this House. Good luck to anyone who joins
    what I consider my greatest failure.

    Do not ever seek me out, Spiritwalkers. I have no desire
    to be anything to you.
     
    Penned by my hand on the 7th of Lupar, in the year 507 AF.
    Also by this:

    The Seer of The Curia Spiritus is Seer Achimrst, Etheric Shaman of Nature.
    The leadership positions are:
    Council of Oracles
       Firefox, Achimrst, Kaie, Bluef, and Matylda

    In short, Shamans are not a factional class. The fact that they are not a factional class is exactly why they can wield the power of Spiritlore today. Let's not derail this very productive thread with that nonsense. 

    I'd be happy to toss up some non-combat curses/blessing ideas later. 
    Hellen
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,999 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That's a good point, because pretty much anything can be implemented into combat in some for or manner (like forcing to remove waterwalking). Maybe something akin to the dementia effect, what with seeing odd things and whispering voices.


  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Lol. I didn't say that Shaman was a Hashani factional class, but that arguing that allowing Shaman to curse items would make it a factional class is silly. You have a whole skill (called CURSES) that's devoted to inflicting pain and affliction to other people. Not to mention Vodun. By @Achimrst's logic (We need the ability to bless items if we're going to get the ability to curse them) Shaman should have access to the Healing skill, too, to balance things out.

    Also I didn't read your spoiler'd things (wtf that was like a million words) but if HELP SHAMAN is that far off, you should probably put in a request to make it sound less Dark/Hashani.

    Though of course, Targ rejecting Shaman is an obstacle to that.
    image
    Bluef
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jacen said:
    Lol. I didn't say that Shaman was a Hashani factional class, but that arguing that allowing Shaman to curse items would make it a factional class is silly. You have a whole skill (called CURSES) that's devoted to inflicting pain and affliction to other people. Not to mention Vodun. By @Achimrst's logic (We need the ability to bless items if we're going to get the ability to curse them) Shaman should have access to the Healing skill, too, to balance things out.

    Also I didn't read your spoiler'd things (wtf that was like a million words) but if HELP SHAMAN is that far off, you should probably put in a request to make it sound less Dark/Hashani.

    Though of course, Targ rejecting Shaman is an obstacle to that.
    Blessing is just a word used to describe it, not the actual action itself. Not to mention Shaman always had healing abilities, Uruz rune for one, now we can use Spiritlore and resurrect people not to mention heal ourselves with curses.

    As for the Blessing thing, it probably should be called something different IF even given to shaman, which I have already said I don't agree with at all hello Enchanting team, to say shaman can't bless anything shows how little you know of actual shaman. Shaman Bless things in rituals all the time....
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Jacen said:
    Lol. I didn't say that Shaman was a Hashani factional class, but that arguing that allowing Shaman to curse items would make it a factional class is silly. You have a whole skill (called CURSES) that's devoted to inflicting pain and affliction to other people. Not to mention Vodun. By @Achimrst's logic (We need the ability to bless items if we're going to get the ability to curse them) Shaman should have access to the Healing skill, too, to balance things out.

    Also I didn't read your spoiler'd things (wtf that was like a million words) but if HELP SHAMAN is that far off, you should probably put in a request to make it sound less Dark/Hashani.

    Though of course, Targ rejecting Shaman is an obstacle to that.
    I forgot to add, I don't think the HELP SHAMAN is really that far off. Secrets of the Shadows, Dark side of Mysticism don't mean worshiping Twilight. All Shaman lore is highly tied to Twilight though, especially since he is the one who gave them a lot of knowledge regarding spirits and all that, quite literally in their RP, it's not something those who RP Shamanism can really just ignore. I know I don't ignore that IC but I don't worship Twilight either so...  idk, I think it's fine as it is.

    Edit: The misunderstanding is always a good RP point to me as well! If everyone thinks they are darkness then it adds a dynamic to the class that no other class has even if it is neutral. Which is basically what the HELP SHAMAN is saying to me.
    Bluef
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    @Achimrst's comments represent a genuine concern to many shamans, who live outside of Hashan and don't want to be lumped in with Voldemort's cadre of practitioners of the dark arts. I think those concerns are accurate to agree. If the class wants to maintain neutrality, it would definitely need an ambiguous mixture of abilities (blessing and curses) siimlar to what is presented in Spiritlore.

    @Jacen, you mentioned that shaman would need access to a healing skill too (by that logic) to balance things out. Well, I'm not sure if you're familiar with Spiritlore much yet, but shamans can rezz now. I'd call that a pretty powerful 'healing' ability. 

    In conclusion, I'd suggest that we focus on the cool idea that @Kresslack had because HELP SHAMAN doesn't need a re-write. What needs to happen is that people need to learn that a class is not the sum of its help file. 

  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    So, I was thinking about what @Kresslack said and decided to throw in some ideas.

    Jewelry:

    Curse: Haunted! Perhaps a ghost of the former owner loved the ring, an engagement ring maybe? Who knows it's haunted!

    Possible actions: Eerie feelings of something watching you, strange noises everyone in the room can hear, voices screaming at you.

    Blessing: Special? It's obviously a snowflake ring needing to be adored by all.

    Possible actions: I was thinking touch reactions maybe, touch a blessed ring and it sings a heavenly hymn or glows with a spectacular light. Things that happen when you do something rather then randomly and creepy.

    Weapon:

    Curse: Haunted again? A sword thirsting for the blood it's former master fed it days on end. A cruel intention of a dying man as he gasped his last breath, his weapon falling and remembering.

    Possible actions: A sudden feeling of anger washes over you! The desire to kill seeps into you, your weapon glows and your body shakes! Emotes obviously, but fun ones.

    Blessing: Extra attack message? Weapons need to be used, or else admired.

    Possible actions: A blessed rapier sings a valiant song as it impales it's enemy. Or instead of attack messages, maybe doing an action causes an action such as. Gripping the handle a blessed short sword glows in anticipation. Basic but I hope you get the idea.

    Basic ideas to mull over.
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,724 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm of the opinion that blessed/cursed items would quickly lose their appeal if players were allowed to do these things. Leave them in the hands of the Divine, where they've been used sparingly (and rightly so) to great effect.

    Bluef
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