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Comments
Reasons I think Apostates are better fitted:
1. Cursing/Defiling and object would give them a visible suffering RP additive.
2. Giving shaman the option to Curse an item but not the exclusivity of Blessing the item would be a way of pseudo-factionalizing them. While Apostates are already highly considered evil by priests because of IC, and RP , viewpoints designed into the game for conflict. What I mean by this is, Good vs Evil.
3. Evileyes are a form of cursing someone by looking at them. It is literally almost exactly the same ability only they can do it with both eyes hence, at the same time. While a Shaman uses their fingers. As shown by it's description.
Reasons I think Enchanting would be a better alternative:
1. Enchanting destroys items, making it randomly curse or bless instead of being destroyed could be a great alternative offering a purely random reaction to the enchanting process. Which I'm told it already has.
2. I would like to think enchanting an item and something bad or good happening would add a dynamic to the RP that wouldn't inherently give the process a pseudo-factionalizing aspect.
3. Clearly Magi/Enchanting has some sort of RP connection to afflictions, or curses, as shown by the Ring of Pestilence.
4. It would probably be less frustrating of a process for an enchanting Magi to at least get something rather then lose an item completely, or get nothing, from enchanting.
Although I'm not sure that any other class in the history of Sapience has had to try to exist under such unsubstantiated xenophobic (for the lack of a better word to characterize class prejudice) conditions, it is what it is.
If this blessing/curse ability ever presented itself IC, I think it would make sense for priests to gain the capacity to bless items, for apostates to gain the ability to curse items, and for shamans to be able to do both. That way, the long-held neutrality of the class is maintained.
Anyone who could curse, could remove blessings. Anyone who could bless, could remove curses. Again, shamans would be able to do both. In this way, they would continue to be what they already are: A neutral class that has the potential to be accepted realm-wide.
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea
I don't think that giving mortal players the ability to curse/bless items would in any way dampen the significance of these past happenings. Divine are capable of far more powerful instances of such abilities and I think that's widely understood.
It makes perfect sense from a roleplay standpoint that priests, apostates, and shamans - the clerical type classes - would be capable of some small amount of conjuring of their own. I think the way these items are cursed/blessed needs to be very much roleplay-motivated and not necessarily interfere with combat though, and that is a delicate balance to manage.
For example, I remember a few years ago when the talk of getting rid of Runelore first came up and everyone wanted a VODUN SECRET ability added so we could give our targets cursed items that would mess with them during combat. I think it was agreed then that that could become a bit of a problem.
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea
It'd be pretty curse-like because you'd have to die to get rid of it, and in doing so pass the curse on to someone else. Granted, I suppose people could just heartstop, but it'd be interesting to trick an enemy into getting a cursed golden braid and watch their gold drops halve!
Yet, like Bluef said I like the idea of shaman doing both instead of one, although I don't particularly agree with it :P I still think it would be fun and less malicious as an enchanting effect. To me, shaman just cursing an item is aligning them to be a class that is "Malicious" as they would leave cursed items around for people to find and wear and then run to a priest to fix. The priest then of course being angry about what the shaman did an in turn making them AGAINST the light instead of just neutral to it. I mean if Shaman sat in a safe room breaking your legs with a vodun doll wouldn't you be pissed about it? That is essentially what is happening we give someone a cursed object, lets just say the object breaks your legs for the example, you put it on it breaks your legs and then the shaman runs away giggling or whatever. The person can't take off the object and have to scream out for a priest to help them to "cleanse" or Bless the object. Of course the priest is going to hate shaman! I would hate shaman if they did that shit to me!
So maybe some things along the following (going to try to show both sides, curses and blessings):
Ring
Curse: Hunger - Speeds up the metabolism, ignoring Satiation and causing ravishing hunger over a period of time.
Blessing: Nourishment - Provides the effects of Satiation consistently for a period of time.
Sword
Curse: Reflect - Has a chance to turn an attack against an adventurer, rather than to their target.
Blessing: Truestrike - Slightly increase the to-hit stat of the weapon.
Ring
Curse: Clumsy - Persisting yet randomly activated clumsiness effect while worn. Maybe take a small hit to dexterity.
Blessing: Graceful - Allows a small, temporary increase to dexterity.
Those are just some examples that I came up with just now. There's also something to consider in whether or not cursed items can be unworn/unwielded by the person using them, or if they would require assistance from another class or specific method of handling the item in order to be removed. Of course, being irremovable could in itself, be a curse.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
Date: 04/28/2009 at 01:43
From: Lord Firefox Sly
To : Everyone
Subj: Leaving
I apologize in advice for the length and breadth of topic
contained in the following missive; I intend this to be my
final words to the House, and I would like to cover a number
of topics on my way out. Yes, by "way out" I mean I will be
leaving.
My intent with the Shamans was to take my knowledge of
guilds and cities, with which I had experience in founding
or ruling both, and apply it in a manner which would create
a haven free of the strife present in almost every walk of
life. I was given a rare opportunity when my memory was
altered, so I took it happily, knowing few are so blessed.
To begin with, I violated the commonly held belief of what
a Guildmaster was. Back then, everything was a Democracy,
it was the only choice. By uniquely exploiting my position
as Founder, I made most of the lobbying and pandering for
votes obsolete. Who could argue they had better plans for
the Guild than the one who made it? In this I needed to
avoid the trap of appearing a despot, but yet make rules
with a small amount of input.
I then created the Council. By elevating Guild members
who were not necessarily secretaries, I gave voice to a
larger mix of opinions. This had been tried in the Druids
to significant success, so I furthered the experiments
there. Where they had the equivalent of a secretary vote,
I intended a House Elder to provide voice to those whose
opinions were proven, though they might not represent my
"establishment". It was, by some definitions, my cabinet.
The goal was to be structured as a family. I wanted every
member to feel respected and important, no matter their age
or experience. Secretaries were those with large amounts of
responsibility or authority, but their opinions were not
irreproachable. I like to think I largely succeeded. I was
told I had an air that was a bit scary, but as a whole I
like to think of the Guild as a success. We were small, but
very close knit.
I'm better at making systems and being an administrator
than anything, which was not what the Guild needed after
a time. I decided that, instead of pitifully clinging to
my power and leadership when it was not ideal, I would
move things to a leader better suited to the next phase;
growth.
When I stepped down, I passed the reigns to Grellek. I
asked that the normal type of democracy be avoided;
instead just let him assume the role without the insanity
and backstabbing present in a normal election. The Guild
agreed to the extent that this became a tradition. There
was usually an obvious successor, and they merely stepped
into the role, providing the style of leadership necessary.
For instance, Grellek was a wonderful father of the Guild,
but Fhyn had the steel necessary to deal with growing strife
between the Guild and Hashan. No challenge, no rioting in
the streets. He merely tipped his hat, agreed it was
needed, and passed things over.
That was how it went for a long time. I checked in,
clarified my intent with certain rules and offered my
advice; almost exactly what I created the role of Elder
to do. The major disruption came when we needed to become
a House.
I loved the idea. Becoming a House let us change from a
standard Guild into something much more versatile. Instead
of being a path to a certain class, we could devote
everything to our role as Hashan's spiritual side. Rir and
those of her time did a wonderful job with this.
Then we changed leadership to Dictatorship, something I
fought quite vocally. You see, even though we were already
a Dictatorship in all but name, the axe of Democracy always
loomed over the head of our leadership. The axe had two
blades of course, and at any time the balance could be
upset by a large group of those that didnt agree with
how we ran things, but similarly could the whole House
bring down a leader who sought to force them away from
the harmony they had.
You'll note I never mentioned our Patron in this overlong
tale; this is on purpose. Our Patron did not tell us what
to do. Ever. They were our spiritual leader, our connection
to the spirit and Garden. They did not decide who could
join the guild, or make rules. Of course Their counsel
was always warmly appreciated, but the role was not that
of Sartan over Mhaldor, more that of Valnurana over Hashan.
I have fought tooth and nail to keep this our House, where
everyone's opinion matters and decisions are not made
without regard to the real desires of those affected.
It appears that I now lose. Those with lofty opinions of
their own opinions and desires would now just throw
edicts down upon our heads. Worry not! They have 'vision'.
Xaruthan is but the first casualty, one we could ill afford
to lose, and expect more who disagree to not be willing
to wait 27 years for leadership to change to whatever
crony the Mighty Oligarchs have chosen for Heirs.
Our Dictatorship hit a bump when it was decided "Spirits"
would choose each leader, instead of the whole House. Now
a leader could simply choose a successor by claiming the
equivalent of Divine Intervention! They merely had to claim
the Spirits told them, where if they truly listened they'd
find the Spirits and House should be in agreement.
Please, do remember that our current administration was not
even chosen by a Spirit, they merely say it in every post
they throw down to us.
It fell and broke its nose when the title of Prophet was
tossed without thought to the next leader, as the current
didn't want it.
It cried out, rising to its feet when we changed to an
Oligarchy, to attempt to bring a larger number of leaders
to keep one another in check. Oligarchy could possess
checks and balances, perhaps respond better to the will
of the people.
Apollyon made sure this would not work by giving the
choice of his compatriots to the one we disagreed with
in the first place. Instead of one leader we were unsure
of, we now have one failed leader and a child, with the
chooser himself being chosen by the leader who failed.
Huzzah, we fell again.
Our House has not risen once more. Harmonia, Payne, Salvar,
you are blights on this House. You claim change? Fine! I
am always a fan of furthering the House to betterment. But
you take no caution, heed no council. You merely change
and alter as you will, arguing for our own good. The House
now smells of cronyism, lies, and a blind populace. Don't
mind me, though. Given time you will replace the entire
House membership with your friends who will benefit from
your rule.
I made a mistake with the Council. It provided a forum with
privacy to debate things like Ordos, but now it provides a
forum where every major decision can happen over the masses.
We ally to Houses opposed to our very core, but worry not!
We changed the Patron to that of Evil, but He doesn't seek
to influence us in that direction!
A quick note about the Charter soon to be forced down our
throats: Ignore its length, reading it is a waste of time.
It is a confused mix between a charter, a constitution and
a law. Basically it says "Oligarchs do whatever they want,
and the Patron can tell us what to do". There, I saved you
the effort of reading it.
I also should endeavor to not appear to be quitting in
anger over the actions of three fools; it does not befit
my station to seem like I am leaving for not getting my
way. Know that I am no petulant child, nor some form of
revolutionary. I leave this House now because I see no
recourse. Short of hoping that in some 54 years we get
a new, benevolent leadership, I do not believe there is
any way to right the House. Maya Herself has informed me
that I have no way to argue with a Dictator or Oligarch,
so, I leave. I recommend any discontents to leave.
Spiritwalkers, you have lost your soul. Your ritualists
are pathetic and self serving, only holding rituals to
prove cyclical logic or make themselves appear important.
The largest percentage of the voting base is now comprised
of those let into the House and artificially ranked by
constant favoring. Harmonia has charged an entire group
previous to her with Treason, removing the largest quantity
of members I have ever seen punished, in any guild.
Anyone who wishes to leave, do so. You will not be breaking
your Oath, because your Oath was to a House previous to this
insanity. The leaders above you are not of your choosing,
and they change the House away from what you vowed to protect
and serve. I, your Founder, declare you free of the Oath I
wrote with my own hand.
I have always despised posting. The words come back to
haunt you over such long reaches of time that one could
fear to never escape them. So, I will be very careful in
what I choose to have haunt me now.
I apologize for this House. Good luck to anyone who joins
what I consider my greatest failure.
Do not ever seek me out, Spiritwalkers. I have no desire
to be anything to you.
Penned by my hand on the 7th of Lupar, in the year 507 AF.
The Seer of The Curia Spiritus is Seer Achimrst, Etheric Shaman of Nature.
The leadership positions are:
Council of Oracles
Firefox, Achimrst, Kaie, Bluef, and Matylda
In short, Shamans are not a factional class. The fact that they are not a factional class is exactly why they can wield the power of Spiritlore today. Let's not derail this very productive thread with that nonsense.
I'd be happy to toss up some non-combat curses/blessing ideas later.
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea
Also I didn't read your spoiler'd things (wtf that was like a million words) but if HELP SHAMAN is that far off, you should probably put in a request to make it sound less Dark/Hashani.
Though of course, Targ rejecting Shaman is an obstacle to that.
As for the Blessing thing, it probably should be called something different IF even given to shaman, which I have already said I don't agree with at all hello Enchanting team, to say shaman can't bless anything shows how little you know of actual shaman. Shaman Bless things in rituals all the time....
Edit: The misunderstanding is always a good RP point to me as well! If everyone thinks they are darkness then it adds a dynamic to the class that no other class has even if it is neutral. Which is basically what the HELP SHAMAN is saying to me.
Also, not all 'dark' is Twilight. Srsly. It is used in other contexts.
@Jacen, you mentioned that shaman would need access to a healing skill too (by that logic) to balance things out. Well, I'm not sure if you're familiar with Spiritlore much yet, but shamans can rezz now. I'd call that a pretty powerful 'healing' ability.
In conclusion, I'd suggest that we focus on the cool idea that @Kresslack had because HELP SHAMAN doesn't need a re-write. What needs to happen is that people need to learn that a class is not the sum of its help file.
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea
Jewelry:
Curse: Haunted! Perhaps a ghost of the former owner loved the ring, an engagement ring maybe? Who knows it's haunted!
Possible actions: Eerie feelings of something watching you, strange noises everyone in the room can hear, voices screaming at you.
Blessing: Special? It's obviously a snowflake ring needing to be adored by all.
Possible actions: I was thinking touch reactions maybe, touch a blessed ring and it sings a heavenly hymn or glows with a spectacular light. Things that happen when you do something rather then randomly and creepy.
Weapon:
Curse: Haunted again? A sword thirsting for the blood it's former master fed it days on end. A cruel intention of a dying man as he gasped his last breath, his weapon falling and remembering.
Possible actions: A sudden feeling of anger washes over you! The desire to kill seeps into you, your weapon glows and your body shakes! Emotes obviously, but fun ones.
Blessing: Extra attack message? Weapons need to be used, or else admired.
Possible actions: A blessed rapier sings a valiant song as it impales it's enemy. Or instead of attack messages, maybe doing an action causes an action such as. Gripping the handle a blessed short sword glows in anticipation. Basic but I hope you get the idea.
Basic ideas to mull over.
For that reason alone, they have to be somewhat standardized, yet with enough variety and flavour to fit many different potential roleplay situations. Here are some of initial ideas:
Curses
---------------------
Blessings
---------------------
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea