Best Bashing Method For Serpent?

Kresslack

So I haven't been a Serpent in a very long time, and while the bashing aspect doesn't seem nearly as god-awful as it used to, it still seems relatively slow. I was able to practically mow through stuff as a BM, but now it seems to take nearly twice as long to kill the same things. So what I'm wondering is if there are certain variables (other than runes and artefacts) which will make this process a little more efficient, such as certain whip stats (if those matter that much), etc.

Ernam

Go for maximum speed on whip (~200 for forged) or artefact lash (level 1 is a massive improvement).

Dex helps too, as do any kind of crit boosting (lily, elixir, trait, racial trait, artefact, relic, higher level) effects.

Also, not sure if IRE really aimed for this or not, but classes with more damage mitigation should have slightly lower DPS, since they can typically bash higher level areas with equal might/arties (which equals out to being comparable experience per time).  Serpent is a bit tankier than BM, but not much, although the disparity between there DPS is not that large.

BM does kindof have the disadvantage of having to choose between con and str, whereas serpent can get away with maxing con with minimal impact on bashing DPS.  The payout on this, however, is that classes with bashing attacks directly altered by stats can generally out-do classes that cannot, past a certain threshold.  BM with 19-20 str (not that hard to accomplish with gaunts) does pretty insane bashing DPS, but it would almost never be wise for a serpent to go past 16 Dex.

Sena

Dexterity is important, even moreso than str/int for other classes. I'd focus more on speed than damage for the whip, but both matter. I'm honestly not sure what high-end forged whip stats are like, and L3 lash stats (which make serpents amazing at bashing, combined with high dex) are basically impossible to forge, so I'm not sure what specifically you should look for in a forged whip. I got a 78/172 whip pretty cheap, and that's ~179 DPS before dexterity/nimble (better than most classes).

When looking for whips, you can just calculate the DPS, which is damage (320+4*DamageStat) divided by speed (7-SpeedStat/50), and buy whichever whip is best based on that. This ignores the speed bonus from dexterity, but at trans subterfuge dexterity should affect all whips equally, so you can ignore it when comparing whips, same as nimble.

Of course if you can get a level 3 lash, that will be extremely good, serpent with a level 3 lash is one of the best bashing classes in the game, at least offensively. Priest with a level 3 mace is better, and runewarden with amazing rapiers (a pair of something like 88/253 or 80/257) is better, but nothing else comes close in DPS. Level 1-2 lashes aren't as amazing (you can beat level 1 with a good forged whip), but they're still very good choices.

Sena

Ernam said:

Serpent is a bit tankier than BM, but not much, although the disparity between there DPS is not that large.

Serpent with a good whip and dex-spec is far better than BM. The cheap 78/172 whip I got gives me about 18.4% higher DPS than blademaster at 12 dex/str, and 26.6% better DPS at 16 dex/str.

Ernam said:

serpent can get away with maxing con with minimal impact on bashing DPS.  The payout on this, however, is that classes with bashing attacks directly altered by stats can generally out-do classes that cannot, past a certain threshold.  BM with 19-20 str (not that hard to accomplish with gaunts) does pretty insane bashing DPS, but it would almost never be wise for a serpent to go past 16 Dex.

This is completely backwards. Dexterity for serpents doesn't have diminishing returns like str/int does, so it makes even more of a difference for DPS than str/int (shown pretty clearly in the comparison above), and there's even more reason to go past 16. And since con-spec reduces dex and dex-spec reduces con, choosing one over the other has more impact than for other classes.

Evvi

Pretty much everything was said already.

- Whip speed is everything, pretty much what was said ITT already. Forget about damage, Garrote damage scales up with Subterfuge level for the MOST part, whip damage plays a very small part. Get a lvl1 artie if you can.

- You can't tank for the life of you, but trans avoidance helps. With Dash, you can play around with denizen who aggro, so with hit-and-dash you can do areas you shouldn't be able to tank, which is nice.

- Some really bashing-heavy serpents like to pick up crit damage major  trait, up to you.

- Meropis is literally heaven to hunt as Serpent with all those pretty warps to the best hunting spots.

Kresslack

I definitely need to trade this whip in then, as I picked one for damage over speed, and I have fire pendent so that definitely helps some. I can't remember what my dex is...maybe 12? I'll have to check when I get home. Thank you!

Herose

Also, remember that you can bite through shields.  Once a denizen gets below 20% of their health they will usually start shielding every other hit.  Never flay - always bite!

No one really forges whips unless asked so it is unlikely that you'll find a 200 speed whip in a shop.  Anything 180 and over is good though.  I recently got a few whips forged and have some extras stashed.  They are mid to high 170s for speed and decent damage.   Ask me about whips in game and I'll offer to give one of them to you.

Naverre

Herose said:

Also, remember that you can bite through shields.  Once a denizen gets below 20% of their health they will usually start shielding every other hit.  Never flay - always bite!

Yeah, you can bite through shields, but I've found I can do more damage by flaying then garroting than by biting. Biting with camus is fairly weak in comparison, and takes quite a bit of balance. With a good whip and decent dex, flaying and garroting is almost always better. The one exception might be denizens that are too fast, but then you might as well wait for them to attack and just garrote anyway.

Ernam

Camus bites are not a "weak" bashing method, particularly for shielding denizens.

100% guarantee that it's better to bite through shield than flaying.

Naverre

Eh, I did the math, and the DPS between Camus and a level 1 artie lash flay/garrote combo is actually pretty close, though the combo is higher.

Mostly, when I use camus bites, it felt like I was doing less damage. I'll try throwing camus back into my hunting routine.

Ernam

Naverre said:

Eh, I did the math, and the DPS between Camus and a level 1 artie lash flay/garrote combo is actually pretty close, though the combo is higher.

Mostly, when I use camus bites, it felt like I was doing less damage. I'll try throwing camus back into my hunting routine.

Damage and DPS are totally different.  Camus does slightly less damage, but has comparable DPS (15% more with fangs).  The big difference is that flay/garrote drops garrote's DPS by about 50%, where camus is unaffected.

Classes with abilities that can bypass shield (dragon, knights, serpent, maybe 1-2 more) are typically the best classes in the game for bashing, because at high levels, bashing speed is primarily a factor of crit rate, and classes that can bypass shield have a much higher crit rate.  If the average NPC takes you 8-9 seconds to kill, two shields (2-4 seconds) makes a pretty massive difference.  Using Camus to ignore that 2-4 seconds of delay per NPC is a massive boost to overall bashing speed, and this becomes more and more the case as your crit rate increases.

These classes also have a massive advantage in one of the premier bashing areas in the game, Annwyn, since their ability to bypass NPC shields allows them to avoid the sinister Sidhe Lady roped/shield loop.  I'd ballpark that Sidhe take about 20% less time purely due to being able to kill Sidhe Ladies while they're shielded, and you also take a hell of a lot less damage.

Addama

Knight classes can Razeslash and I'll testify that this alone makes Knight > Monk hunting.

Klendathu

Bards can cantata - break shields on a separate balance - that's a seriously good bashing ability